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I voted good/good, because that's roughly how I feel. That said... 40k isn't a board game or series of novels. It's not good or bad, but has a lot of layers and context that make things very non-binary. If you have a good group of players, and you find the basic aspects of the background interesting, it's a great experience, as the rules allow games to be played relatively simply and there is at least some attempts at balance.

The game is not a masterpiece of design, other than the fact that they have in depth rules for literally two dozen distinct factions, all of which work fairly well together. That is not damning with faint praise either, as the sheer diversity of armies and builds is one of the things that makes 40k unique.

 akaean wrote:
Meh, its not quite the catch 22 you make it out to be. Its easy to say Space Marines are popular because Space Marines are advertised, but its not really true. Space Marines are popular because people like Space Marines. People are drawn to super heroes, people are drawn to "the good guys". Space Marines give you a bit of both, the fact that their models have a classic sci fi trooper look to them and are somewhat easy to paint is just icing on the cake for the SM gravy train.

Wait, did you just try to allude to Space Marines as being Good Guys'?

I hope that is sarcasm, or else you may want to read the fluff...

Spoiler, Space Marines are Space Fascist. Also, not everyone is drawn to Super Heroes, personally I find them to be dull and uninspired.

Anyway back on topic.

8th is far better than 6th and 7th, but nowhere near as good as it was in 3rd. The lore has finally advanced, but not enough I think. It seemed that after the reaction to the death of WFB GW are reluctant to make drastic changes, far safer to make small minor changes.

Having said that, there are better games out there, but sadly these don't have the popularity and ease of finding an opponent that 40k has.

 stonehorse wrote:

 akaean wrote:
Meh, its not quite the catch 22 you make it out to be. Its easy to say Space Marines are popular because Space Marines are advertised, but its not really true. Space Marines are popular because people like Space Marines. People are drawn to super heroes, people are drawn to "the good guys". Space Marines give you a bit of both, the fact that their models have a classic sci fi trooper look to them and are somewhat easy to paint is just icing on the cake for the SM gravy train.

Wait, did you just try to allude to Space Marines as being Good Guys'?

I hope that is sarcasm, or else you may want to read the fluff...

Spoiler, Space Marines are Space Fascist. Also, not everyone is drawn to Super Heroes, personally I find them to be dull and uninspired.

Anyway back on topic.

8th is far better than 6th and 7th, but nowhere near as good as it was in 3rd. The lore has finally advanced, but not enough I think. It seemed that after the reaction to the death of WFB GW are reluctant to make drastic changes, far safer to make small minor changes.

Having said that, there are better games out there, but sadly these don't have the popularity and ease of finding an opponent that 40k has.

Space marines are Space battle monks who eat drink and sleep war and only war.

you could say the imperium is a tyrannical dictatorship but the marines.... less so.

 stonehorse wrote:


Spoiler, Space Marines are Space Fascist. Also, not everyone is drawn to Super Heroes, personally I find them to be dull and uninspired.

Every depiction I found of them, published after 2008, had them down as impeccable mary sues. They weren't even slightly close to anti-hero, never mind Space Fascist.

I much prefer the Space Fascist version, though.

Minotaurs are very much not the good guys.

Salamanders however...

Like others have said , recent fluff has been pushing them more into the pure good guys realm. You even have stories of the Space Wolves sticking up for Imperial Guard and attacking Inquisition Forces intent on purging them all.

Still I put "good guys" in quotation marks for a reason. If your choice is between Space Fascism and the depraved depths of the chaos or dark eldar... space fascisim is on the "good" side of that grey scale.

 akaean wrote:

i don't like the massive SM favoring either, but we all know SM would be the most popular faction even if GW didn't push them with its advertising.

Except we don't know how popular they'd be. Every time GW pushes space marines, new players who are not interested in marines never get into 40k at all. The constant push for more marines has drawn in more people who like the marine vibe than people who don't. When you walk into a GW store what's the first thing you see? A marine and a stormcast poster/cutout. Or maybe 5 matches consisting of marines vs marines. People who would be drawn into space elves might never even see eldar as they pass by the store. Even the starter kits have all been Marines vs other (until forgebane but that's not really a starter, and even then it seems a lot of people have recently gotten into admech or necrons) GW has focused so much on one demographic that they struggle to bring others in.