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the_scotsman wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Listen - regardless of the "root" of the problem allies are NOT going away.

Allies gives us a tremendous opportunity to expand fantastically unique parts of 40K into our games without needing to create full fledged codexes. Just look at the upcoming Rogue Trader book. There is no way they could make a good army for them without half a decade of lead up.

Allies are highly unlikely to go away but I think it is nearly inevitable at this point that they will be very limited in Matched compared to where they are now.

I think the "1/4 of your army's points max can have a different faction keyword" or a similar limit is likely to be the first thing we see.GW has tended to go for the simplest solution and for the one tested in another game - AOS in this instance.

That doesn't really tackle the bonus CP from small point detachments. It works in AoS, because CP are not tied to allies at all.

It also eliminate armies that are legitimally evenly-ish split. And doesn't impact many of the worse offenders. After all, you can still take an IG detatchment at that points level...

Darsath wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
I think that outside of tournaments the issue is extremely irrelevant. Inside tournaments there are people to regulate the rules so as to provide a greater degree of balance.

Complaining about a game on the internet to change things you don't like is pointless and a waste of time. If you don't like the game, don't play. If you want to make up rules to better suit your gaming requirements there is nothing stopping you. If you would prefer to play a pick up game against a certain type of army, you certainly can.

At this point GW has done almost everything possible to cater to their fans, bringing in new factions, new ways to play with your collection, admitting and fixing mistakes, publishing a yearly to address game balance, even going so far as to bring old almost unheard of units back to the fold, and communicating with their playerbase via social media. So it begs the question whenever someone howls about the injustice of tiny plastic soldiers; is GW the problem or is it the players?

I think the answer should be obvious.

The way this is worded is quite telling. It sounds like one of those who mock the hobby itself, referring to the game as "tiny plastic soldiers" really makes me wonder if you're even involved in the game. Heck, the defence of "don't like don't play" or "don't like don't watch/ read" defence is a common excuse used for indefensible decisions and fan-fic comics. So I wouldn't use it as a defence.

Anyways, as far as I'm concerned, I've got nothing so far for the army I play. So it hardly feels like they're doing everything possible.

I have three armies. Is my involvement in the game lessened by my ability to admit to myself I am playing with tiny plastic soldiers? Hardly.

So, which army do you play that has "nothing"? I'm very curious to know.

If I seem dismissive of the issue brought up in this thread, it's probably because I have a fairly good grip on the actual level of importance that a tabletop miniature wargame holds in my life. Essentially people are trying to petition a corporation for changes that they haven't even thought out or seem to be able to voice concisely. The main problem with this is that as long as the business model proves profitable, nothing will change. If the way GW runs their game is not acceptable to the customer, then they should stop giving GW their money. It's not like they're the only wargame on the block.

In a free society, you do in fact have the choice to play whatever game you wish. You don't have any special right to demand things from a company. Well, you do, but that doesn't mean a damned thing and if tomorrow GW decides to fold and sell the company to Hasbro, then all the salty threads in the world will not do a bloody thing.

I'm curious, how many people bitched and moaned endlessly about 7th, but still went to the store and bought toys? Everyone agreed the Skyhammer Annihilation Force was waaaay too OP. But they sold didn't they? You didn't use the formation, just got it for the good deal on models? Well guess what, that doesn't show up in a market analysis report. All GW saw was that the kit sold. So where was the incentive for GW to change?

Not involved. HA!

 grouchoben wrote:
I voted soup but I also think AM need a good rollicking too. I play AM, I play against AM all the time, and I am sick to the back teeth of bleedin' AM.

Their ubiquity tells its own story.

The CP generation mixed with the allies rules really is the issue there more than anything inherent to the Imperial Guard as an army

To be frank, I think actual AM players would benefit from being knocked off the top spot for main soup ingredient. Eye-rolling would subside, coolness would increase, and bargains would fall like rain on ebay ... give Admech their time in the sun, I say.

AdMech need to be fleshed out into a full army with things like dedicated transports, something more than a dozen or so units (really half a dozen with some gear swaps), for that to happen

Asmodios wrote:
hard to argue its not soup when every top 10 list at nova was soup... IG is just the main ingredient in imperial soup. xeno factions are even forced to soup and if they can't then they can't compete

This, every single top list we've seen recently has been built around allies shennanigans, Xenos or Imperial. When you can cherry-pick the best bits from each army and slap them together in ways not really intended, we get the mess of super-pals armies we see, to nobodies surprise.

 Rismonite wrote:
IG infantry and elite SM working together on the same battlefield seems fluffy as hell and interesting to me. Why we gotta break nice things?

Under that close level of tight command? Not really. Especially not literally every single battle the way that seems to be the norm these days

 Vaktathi wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
I voted soup but I also think AM need a good rollicking too. I play AM, I play against AM all the time, and I am sick to the back teeth of bleedin' AM.

Their ubiquity tells its own story.

The CP generation mixed with the allies rules really is the issue there more than anything inherent to the Imperial Guard as an army

To be frank, I think actual AM players would benefit from being knocked off the top spot for main soup ingredient. Eye-rolling would subside, coolness would increase, and bargains would fall like rain on ebay ... give Admech their time in the sun, I say.

AdMech need to be fleshed out into a full army with things like dedicated transports, something more than a dozen or so units (really half a dozen with some gear swaps), for that to happen

Asmodios wrote:
hard to argue its not soup when every top 10 list at nova was soup... IG is just the main ingredient in imperial soup. xeno factions are even forced to soup and if they can't then they can't compete

This, every single top list we've seen recently has been built around allies shennanigans, Xenos or Imperial. When you can cherry-pick the best bits from each army and slap them together in ways not really intended, we get the mess of super-pals armies we see, to nobodies surprise.

 Rismonite wrote:
IG infantry and elite SM working together on the same battlefield seems fluffy as hell and interesting to me. Why we gotta break nice things?

Under that close level of tight command? Not really. Especially not literally every single battle the way that seems to be the norm these days

Yeah, it's incredibly fluffy to see Rowboat Girlyman on every battlefield, backed by Imperial Guard and Redemptor Dreadnoughts. But seriously, while it goes outside the scope of this thread, Power Armor units simply need to become more attractive somehow, or people will continue to use GEQ instead.

Soup is a huge problem.
I don't want to play against tins of Heinz Chicken soup.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Soup is a huge problem.
I don't want to play against tins of Heinz Chicken soup.