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 Togusa wrote:
I figured people would be smart enough to glimmer from my thoughts that I was speaking in terms of predictions and beliefs. I also figured that by not posting this in "news and rumors" people might get the idea.

Well, you are speaking about predictions and beliefs and you are also declaring that they will happen. That's not a question of intelligence on the part of the reader. That's a question of clear and honest communication from the author.

Take any one of your statements, starting with the title:

"What do we expect from the Black Legion Codex?" - That implies there will be a Black Legion Codex.

"So, it's pretty much a given that this will be coming soon" - That implies you are certain about an imminent release.

"Yeah, they're coming." - That's you saying this is about to happen.

"I'm not at all saying that I'm not speculating." - Actually, you just said they are coming in your previous comment.

"Are any of these future codex's a guarantee? Nope. Are they likely to eventually come into the game, absolutely." - "Likely to eventually come" is weasel words, it's promising nothing with absolute certainty. A reader could not be faulted for misunderstanding.

You strike me as someone with a lot of enthusiasm who really wants to talk about a Black Legion Codex. That's great, I appreciate you for doing that. More people should talk about Black Legion, the faction is very misunderstood and I would love to see GW release more models and rules for it.

But rumors are an intense subject of interest on Dakka. There are threads devoted to tracking predictions, their authors, and their historical accuracy. Many of your predictions are expressed with a level of certainty that makes them rumors. The response you've been receiving is mostly a reaction to the likelihood of your predictions actually happening, which is in-line with how people react to any other rumor.

Don't blame people for not agreeing with you or reacting differently from what you expected. You're posting information to a public forum where other people can also share their thoughts. The fact anyone took the time to react means you get this wonderful opportunity to learn from what they have to share. The fact they are poking holes in these predictions is not a reason to insult their intelligence or suggest you are on some other level no one else can understand.

Some of the people in this thread often attack things I say on Dakka. That doesn't mean I think any less of them, we can disagree and still have interesting conversations. Don't let your enthusiasm get the better of you.

Well this could have been a nice thread but instead we're arguing vocabulary and semantics. How petty can people get?

IF a Black Legion Codex is on the horizon, I would expect a new unit or two that the vanilla Chaos Marines don't get. That said, all of the new models that are rumored up to this point already have rules in the current Chaos Marine Codex.

What I'd expect instead is some sort of campaign book or box set that features the new Black Legion models as we've seen in things like Forgebane, Tooth and Claw, and Wake the Dead. Then they'll have a splash release of characters (Abaddon, for example) and continue on their merry way without a Codex in sight. We might get a pamphlet or mini-dex like they did for the Elucidian Starstriders and Gellerpox, but I wouldn't expect more than that.

It seems GW wants us to come into the game store like an overworked Librarian. The more books we bring, the better their rules are, right?

Quasistellar wrote:What do we expect from Codex Doggo?

It's pretty much a given at this point.

We've already got models for Aximillion, Fenrisian Wolves, and the gryph hound.

Do we think Wulfen will be included?

LOL thank you for this , exalts

Togusa wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Are any of these future codex's a guarantee? Nope. Are they likely to eventually come into the game, absolutely.

I asked in my opening post, as well as in a follow-up post what people might like to see from such a codex and what new ideals Games Workshop could introduce to enhance the games longest running and oldest living bad guys. All I've been met with is snark, ridicule and rudeness. It seems like a significant number of people in the thread actively want this to never happen. So, I'm asking a mod to lock the topic.

Well, try to realize there's a difference between snark and quashing false rumors. People on Dakka *hate* false rumors and look down on people who spread them.

While you may mean to be saying something else, you are making statements about future releases using very declarative language. People are reacting to that and questioning the source of your knowledge. Even the title of this thread implies a Black Legion Codex will be released where there are a lot of good reasons to assume that will never happen.

It would be a lot easier to discuss what people would like to see if you were not saying things like:

"Yeah, they're coming."

"Mark my words for better or for worse, whatever happens, I am willing to bet that there will be the following codexes within the next 18-24 months."

"Are they likely to eventually come into the game, absolutely."

None of the things you have outlined are likely to happen, there is no basis for that level of certainty. There are many things, historical and otherwise, to suggest that won't happen.

For example: the first time someone (I think Miniwargamer Dave) claimed to have seen the new Abaddon sculpt was 2015. It's almost 2019 and that model is not on a release schedule.

For example: Dark Vengeance was released in 2012. You still can't buy the Chaos models from that set separately.

I mean, if you want to talk about stuff like that, go ahead but tell people it's a wishlist. They you can go off about what you want to see and other people can talk about it. But don't dress up your fantasies as future releases, that will not fly.

I figured people would be smart enough to glimmer from my thoughts that I was speaking in terms of predictions and beliefs. I also figured that by not posting this in "news and rumors" people might get the idea.

What a cop-out. "What do we think of Black Legion? it's a given they are coming. oh you think they aren't? wrong, yes they are coming"

"pshhh I thought people would be SMART enough to realise that I'm just making speculative predictions based on nothing other than a sculpt in from a supplement box"

 SHUPPET wrote:

Togusa wrote:

Spoiler:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Are any of these future codex's a guarantee? Nope. Are they likely to eventually come into the game, absolutely.

I asked in my opening post, as well as in a follow-up post what people might like to see from such a codex and what new ideals Games Workshop could introduce to enhance the games longest running and oldest living bad guys. All I've been met with is snark, ridicule and rudeness. It seems like a significant number of people in the thread actively want this to never happen. So, I'm asking a mod to lock the topic.

Well, try to realize there's a difference between snark and quashing false rumors. People on Dakka *hate* false rumors and look down on people who spread them.

While you may mean to be saying something else, you are making statements about future releases using very declarative language. People are reacting to that and questioning the source of your knowledge. Even the title of this thread implies a Black Legion Codex will be released where there are a lot of good reasons to assume that will never happen.

It would be a lot easier to discuss what people would like to see if you were not saying things like:

"Yeah, they're coming."

"Mark my words for better or for worse, whatever happens, I am willing to bet that there will be the following codexes within the next 18-24 months."

"Are they likely to eventually come into the game, absolutely."

None of the things you have outlined are likely to happen, there is no basis for that level of certainty. There are many things, historical and otherwise, to suggest that won't happen.

For example: the first time someone (I think Miniwargamer Dave) claimed to have seen the new Abaddon sculpt was 2015. It's almost 2019 and that model is not on a release schedule.

For example: Dark Vengeance was released in 2012. You still can't buy the Chaos models from that set separately.

I mean, if you want to talk about stuff like that, go ahead but tell people it's a wishlist. They you can go off about what you want to see and other people can talk about it. But don't dress up your fantasies as future releases, that will not fly.

I figured people would be smart enough to glimmer from my thoughts that I was speaking in terms of predictions and beliefs. I also figured that by not posting this in "news and rumors" people might get the idea.

What a cop-out. "What do we think of Black Legion? it's a given they are coming. oh you think they aren't? wrong, yes they are coming"

"pshhh I thought people would be SMART enough to realise that I'm just making speculative predictions based on nothing other than a sculpt in from a supplement box"

Note to the OP: when Shuppet and Techsoldaten agree on something, that means something is very wrong with the thread.

EDIT - When you reply but there's a whole other page you haven't seen yet.

Never mind.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Togusa wrote:

Spoiler:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Are any of these future codex's a guarantee? Nope. Are they likely to eventually come into the game, absolutely.

I asked in my opening post, as well as in a follow-up post what people might like to see from such a codex and what new ideals Games Workshop could introduce to enhance the games longest running and oldest living bad guys. All I've been met with is snark, ridicule and rudeness. It seems like a significant number of people in the thread actively want this to never happen. So, I'm asking a mod to lock the topic.

Well, try to realize there's a difference between snark and quashing false rumors. People on Dakka *hate* false rumors and look down on people who spread them.

While you may mean to be saying something else, you are making statements about future releases using very declarative language. People are reacting to that and questioning the source of your knowledge. Even the title of this thread implies a Black Legion Codex will be released where there are a lot of good reasons to assume that will never happen.

It would be a lot easier to discuss what people would like to see if you were not saying things like:

"Yeah, they're coming."

"Mark my words for better or for worse, whatever happens, I am willing to bet that there will be the following codexes within the next 18-24 months."

"Are they likely to eventually come into the game, absolutely."

None of the things you have outlined are likely to happen, there is no basis for that level of certainty. There are many things, historical and otherwise, to suggest that won't happen.

For example: the first time someone (I think Miniwargamer Dave) claimed to have seen the new Abaddon sculpt was 2015. It's almost 2019 and that model is not on a release schedule.

For example: Dark Vengeance was released in 2012. You still can't buy the Chaos models from that set separately.

I mean, if you want to talk about stuff like that, go ahead but tell people it's a wishlist. They you can go off about what you want to see and other people can talk about it. But don't dress up your fantasies as future releases, that will not fly.

I figured people would be smart enough to glimmer from my thoughts that I was speaking in terms of predictions and beliefs. I also figured that by not posting this in "news and rumors" people might get the idea.

What a cop-out. "What do we think of Black Legion? it's a given they are coming. oh you think they aren't? wrong, yes they are coming"

"pshhh I thought people would be SMART enough to realise that I'm just making speculative predictions based on nothing other than a sculpt in from a supplement box"

Note to the OP: when Shuppet and Techsoldaten agree on something, that means something is very wrong with the thread.

Or it means that they can't let it go and would rather focus on semantics and phrasing than discussing the potential models, lore and so on that might be in such a future book.

I offered my reasons. I asked for feedback, questions not one single person has bothered to even acknowledge. I put this thread here, instead of in "rumors" because this isn't a rumor. I don't have a source saying "x" will come on such a day.


Once more:

We have seen a teased bit that looks as though it could be a part of the long rumored Obliterator resculpts. I then asked, "does anyone know of any other unsolved GW teasers that look as though they'd be Chaos Space Marine related?

I said that Cadia and the Black Legion have been a massive part of the opening lore for 8th Edition. There are new rumors swirling around from big names in the 40K youtube community about a possible abbadon sculpt. Given that the we've seen a lot of rumors about abbadon, deamon princes and oblits this year, it seems reasonable to infer that something may happen in the future. In addition, we have this Blackstone game, which has a story involving BL. Heck, even the fortress itself is something with a long history with the BL.

They've had a codex supplement in the past.

Once GSC comes out, that's it for current codex armies, which means that GW will be free to add new armies, or revive old ones.

Does this rephrasing help? Can we move on from the dead horse and discuss the BL and its possibilities for codexhood now?

What you actually did was post a massive amount of BS based on nothing but your opinion and masquerading as fact and cried foul when that was pointed out.

Since then you've done nothing but launch increasingly unconvincing explanations for your previous posts.

Go for a walk. Read a book. Open a window and get some fresh air.

Lol, Codex Black Legion?

Try Codex Heretic Astartes!

Black Legion is the equivalent of Ultramarines. Maybe, maaaybe, Cult Legions will get the Codex treatment ala T-Sons and DG, but that's a big fething maybe.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
What you actually did was post a massive amount of BS based on nothing but your opinion and masquerading as fact and cried foul when that was pointed out.

Since then you've done nothing but launch increasingly unconvincing explanations for your previous posts.

Go for a walk. Read a book. Open a window and get some fresh air.

 darkcloak wrote:
Lol, Codex Black Legion?

Try Codex Heretic Astartes!

Black Legion is the equivalent of Ultramarines. Maybe, maaaybe, Cult Legions will get the Codex treatment ala T-Sons and DG, but that's a big fething maybe.

Mother of God, move the feth on. If you're not interested in discussing what might be in such a codex, then kindly please stop posting in my thread. If you're interested in discussing this future supplement and what could be in it, you're welcome to post.

There will definitely be a twelve-foot tall nipple, with eight Lascannons, three Power Fists and fourteen legs. It's coming. You'll see.

Oh, by the way, that's my opinion and is based on nothing else.

Is that worth discussing? Is it [Expletive Deleted].

 Togusa wrote:

Spoiler:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Togusa wrote:

I figured people would be smart enough to glimmer from my thoughts that I was speaking in terms of predictions and beliefs. I also figured that by not posting this in "news and rumors" people might get the idea.

What a cop-out. "What do we think of Black Legion? it's a given they are coming. oh you think they aren't? wrong, yes they are coming"

"pshhh I thought people would be SMART enough to realise that I'm just making speculative predictions based on nothing other than a sculpt in from a supplement box"

Note to the OP: when Shuppet and Techsoldaten agree on something, that means something is very wrong with the thread.

Or it means that they can't let it go and would rather focus on semantics and phrasing than discussing the potential models, lore and so on that might be in such a future book.

I offered my reasons. I asked for feedback, questions not one single person has bothered to even acknowledge. I put this thread here, instead of in "rumors" because this isn't a rumor. I don't have a source saying "x" will come on such a day.


Once more:

We have seen a teased bit that looks as though it could be a part of the long rumored Obliterator resculpts. I then asked, "does anyone know of any other unsolved GW teasers that look as though they'd be Chaos Space Marine related?

I said that Cadia and the Black Legion have been a massive part of the opening lore for 8th Edition. There are new rumors swirling around from big names in the 40K youtube community about a possible abbadon sculpt. Given that the we've seen a lot of rumors about abbadon, deamon princes and oblits this year, it seems reasonable to infer that something may happen in the future. In addition, we have this Blackstone game, which has a story involving BL. Heck, even the fortress itself is something with a long history with the BL.

They've had a codex supplement in the past.

Once GSC comes out, that's it for current codex armies, which means that GW will be free to add new armies, or revive old ones.

Does this rephrasing help? Can we move on from the dead horse and discuss the BL and its possibilities for codexhood now?

Sure. I can respond to that.

While I agree it's entirely possible a Codex could come out (which could include Bringers of Despair, Hounds of Abaddon, Cyclopean Cabals, Chosen as Troops, and all that other Black Legion goodness,) nothing you cite as evidence suggests a Codex is about to be released. In fact, much of it suggests GW would be doing something else entirely.

But it's possible I'm misunderstanding what you are saying. Help me out with the answers to a few questions.

1) It's nice that you point out Black Legion and Cadia have been a big part of 8th edition Lore. They have also been a big part of the Lore in previous editions. Can you help me understand why you see that as an indicator of a future release? What's different between now and then? Furthermore, there are a of other things that could be described as 'big' in the lore. Why Black Legion instead of, say, Emperor's Children, where the lore has been talking about the return of a Primarch (which is, arguably, a bigger deal than the fall of Cadia?) Dark Mechanicus has a big part in the recent Lore AND they have models with Faction Keywords that lack a Codex entirely. Why would GW not be focused on that next? I know you put together a big list of things GW could be releasing, but the thread is about Black Legion.

2) The rumored release of a new Abaddon has been around a long time. I've been a small part of it. Given that it's been going around for several years, why would it be happening now? Games Workshop has a LOT of unreleased models that will never be put into production. What's special about Abaddon? I know it would be cool to get a new model, but there's a difference between something being a neat idea and something being on a release schedule.

3) Not a single Supplement from 6th / 7th edition has been ported to 8th. GSC is not the only Codex from previous editions that remains unreleased, Agents of the Imperium / Daemonhunters, Black Templars, and a few others come to mind. A couple years ago, there was an interview with a designer from Games Workshop who said the company was reconsidering the use of supplements entirely. Can you help me understand why GW is now going to start producing Supplements for 8th edition? I know Codex Black Legion is mentioned in the title of this thread, but what does a supplement have to do with the production of a Codex? Can you point me at a single example where GW took a supplement and made it into a full Codex?

4) What does Blackstone Fortress have to do with Black Legion? There are 3 models with the Black Legion keyword in the box, they don't add a lot to the army. If you are correct and the inclusion of these 3 models is a signal of an upcoming release, that would be a first for Games Workshop - I can't think of another example where a boxed game heralded the issuance of a new army book or models. Can you explain to me why you see this as a signal, or give an example of when that's happened before?

5) Why do you believe anyone on YouTube has any special insight into what GW is about to release? I know there are playtesters and people who receive books early and sometimes they post discussions / batreps / Codex reviews on YouTube. But NO ONE has received anything related to Black Legion. That's major news and some of the people I'm friends with would have known a long time ago. Is there some video in specific that makes you think this way? Do you actually know something other people don't? If so, perhaps you can share without the contradictory language.

The one point you have not brought up that would make me think we are getting new Black Legion stuff is Tooth and Claw. It specifically names Black Legion as one of the factions that descended upon whatever system is named there. The problem is, none of the other releases in this series have included new models (I think SW got an HQ option, not sure...) Anyways, what's special about Black Legion that would lead to the release of new models in connection to a series where we're mostly seeing existing ones?

Does this rephrasing help? Can you move on from the faulty logic and actually explain why you think these things have anything to do with the release of a book? Because it's cruel to go around getting people's hopes up over something that's not going to happen and I'm sick of the BS attitude.

Sure, I can. But I want to also clarify something. I'm not trying to say that BL are coming in December, or even in March 2019. I'm saying I believe they will be coming *soon* (defined: next few years)

1) It's nice that you point out Black Legion and Cadia have been a big part of 8th edition Lore. They have also been a big part of the Lore in previous editions. Can you help me understand why you see that as an indicator of a future release? What's different between now and then? Furthermore, there are a of other things that could be described as 'big' in the lore. Why Black Legion instead of, say, Emperor's Children, where the lore has been talking about the return of a Primarch (which is, arguably, a bigger deal than the fall of Cadia?) Dark Mechanicus has a big part in the recent Lore AND they have models with Faction Keywords that lack a Codex entirely. Why would GW not be focused on that next? I know you put together a big list of things GW could be releasing, but the thread is about Black Legion.

Emperor's Children I agree are the most likely surprise codex that they could pull with the launch of rath and rapture, the lore has been quite clear about Fulgrim tearing around the new warp rift with his sons. I believe that GW is trying or preparing to make amends for the anger a lot of Chaos fans experienced from that tournament they won and expected GW to follow through on with the story, and of course we all know that didn't happen. I believe they also had a supplement back in 6th edition, alongside the CS. It wouldn't be all that hard to simply take this chance to update CSM the same way they've begun to update and change around Loyalists with the primaris line. What better place to start than with the most iconic villains in the story?

Also, I do think every single thing in that BS:F box will be a full kit at some point. I personally believe that Renegades, Rouge Traders, Ecclesiarchy, and even those little drone things are all parts of what will eventually be full armies.

2) The rumored release of a new Abaddon has been around a long time. I've been a small part of it. Given that it's been going around for several years, why would it be happening now? Games Workshop has a LOT of unreleased models that will never be put into production. What's special about Abaddon? I know it would be cool to get a new model, but there's a difference between something being a neat idea and something being on a release schedule.

Who was asking for Magnus, Roboute or Mortarion before they came out? I don't recall any large online or offline groups sitting around speculating on any of those models, but I can recall a long history of people doing it for Abby. Remember SoB? For years that army's update was "just around the corner." It wasn't until the company changed their policy on how they deal with their customers, that they saw first hand how many people wanted SoB. I bet that survey had a lot of requests in it, and I know for a fact that there was at least one person who spoke in detail about BL, Abbadon and the need for new models and a codex. I bet, there were more than just little ole' me. I also do understand that rumor has been around a long time, longer than I've been playing infact. This year has seen at least three versions of the rumor that I am aware of, including a box that would have deamon princes and oblits and such in it.

I would also say that Vigilis seems to be Cadia 2.0. If that is true, I could see them introducing new models, campaign books, and possibly this fabled codex we've been discussing. I'm actually very interested to see what is in that set.

3) Not a single Supplement from 6th / 7th edition has been ported to 8th. GSC is not the only Codex from previous editions that remains unreleased, Agents of the Imperium / Daemonhunters, Black Templars, and a few others come to mind. A couple years ago, there was an interview with a designer from Games Workshop who said the company was reconsidering the use of supplements entirely. Can you help me understand why GW is now going to start producing Supplements for 8th edition? I know Codex Black Legion is mentioned in the title of this thread, but what does a supplement have to do with the production of a Codex? Can you point me at a single example where GW took a supplement and made it into a full Codex?

Custodians? I believe that was a suppliment that became a full codex, yet another army nearly everyone told me wouldn't ever exist within 40K proper. We don't know what they're going to do, I bet they've flip flopped in internal discussions on this issue half a dozen times trying to plan out the next decade of this game.

4) What does Blackstone Fortress have to do with Black Legion? There are 3 models with the Black Legion keyword in the box, they don't add a lot to the army. If you are correct and the inclusion of these 3 models is a signal of an upcoming release, that would be a first for Games Workshop - I can't think of another example where a boxed game heralded the issuance of a new army book or models. Can you explain to me why you see this as a signal, or give an example of when that's happened before?

I believe those star fortresses are heavily tied to the historical lore of the legion, if a new one has been found, I can see an easy case made for Abbadon wanting to beat the imperium to securing it for himself. I believe that Deathwatch overkill brought us two armies, did it not?

5) Why do you believe anyone on YouTube has any special insight into what GW is about to release? I know there are playtesters and people who receive books early and sometimes they post discussions / batreps / Codex reviews on YouTube. But NO ONE has received anything related to Black Legion. That's major news and some of the people I'm friends with would have known a long time ago. Is there some video in specific that makes you think this way? Do you actually know something other people don't? If so, perhaps you can share without the contradictory language.

I neither believe them nor disbelieve them, I simply sighted the most recent and relevant buzz with regards to the topic, I believe my blanket statement about this being a prediction and not some fact from GW covered that statement, but suffice it to say none of us should ever believe anything until we see it on the community site.

I haven't any knowledge of Tooth and Claw. So I cannot comment on that, haven't read a whole lot of the vigilis stuff yet.

As for the last part, how many times do I have to reiterate. This is a discussion about predictions, it is specifically why I placed it here in this forum and not over in "news and rumors" with the title "A guy I know says abbadon and his squad are coming on December 18th 2018 in a new Black Legion codex."

I as in ME I personally believe this codex will happen eventually. If others choose to think it will or won't is upon them.

If possible, could you answer a question for me?

Are you aware of anything in the teaser images that GW was shown in say, the last 15 months that we haven't seen yet, that might fit either generic CSM models? I've tried to look at all of their spoilers hoping to find more possible evidence, but there isn't a singular location where they can all be easily viewed that I am aware of.

 Togusa wrote:
Sure, I can. But I want to also clarify something. I'm not trying to say that BL are coming in December, or even in March 2019. I'm saying I believe they will be coming *soon* (defined: next few years)

Well, who cares then? Anyone could say the same thing at any time.

 Togusa wrote:
Emperor's Children I agree are the most likely surprise codex that they could pull with the launch of rath and rapture, the lore has been quite clear about Fulgrim tearing around the new warp rift with his sons. I believe that GW is trying or preparing to make amends for the anger a lot of Chaos fans experienced from that tournament they won and expected GW to follow through on with the story, and of course we all know that didn't happen. I believe they also had a supplement back in 6th edition, alongside the CS. It wouldn't be all that hard to simply take this chance to update CSM the same way they've begun to update and change around Loyalists with the primaris line. What better place to start than with the most iconic villains in the story?

The question I was asking was why Black Legion and not Emperor's Children and Dark Mechanicus.

The title of the thread is Black Legion. The fact that you also predict other Codexes being released is irrelevant. Why Black Legion and not these other ones?

 Togusa wrote:
Also, I do think every single thing in that BS:F box will be a full kit at some point. I personally believe that Renegades, Rouge Traders, Ecclesiarchy, and even those little drone things are all parts of what will eventually be full armies.

Why? GW never released the models from Dark Vengeance, much less created a range around them. The CSM models in particular generated a lot of highly positive feedback.

The BSF models may look cool, but that's secondary to Games Workshop's actual release schedule. There is a long history of releasing models in boxed games and not as a general release. What changed to make you think this could be happening?

 Togusa wrote:
Who was asking for Magnus, Roboute or Mortarion before they came out? I don't recall any large online or offline groups sitting around speculating on any of those models, but I can recall a long history of people doing it for Abby. Remember SoB? For years that army's update was "just around the corner." It wasn't until the company changed their policy on how they deal with their customers, that they saw first hand how many people wanted SoB. I bet that survey had a lot of requests in it, and I know for a fact that there was at least one person who spoke in detail about BL, Abbadon and the need for new models and a codex. I bet, there were more than just little ole' me. I also do understand that rumor has been around a long time, longer than I've been playing infact. This year has seen at least three versions of the rumor that I am aware of, including a box that would have deamon princes and oblits and such in it.

Who was asking? Games Workshop's board. They didn't say, release Gulliman. They did say, increase sales and revive a product that is flagging in the market. GW did that and the company is more successful than ever.

The difference between Primarchs and a new Abaddon sculpt is Abaddon already has a sculpt. That means a new release competes with other product lines. That means it has to be part of a release schedule, which is why they don't just crank out the cool stuff all the time. GW is a public company and has to conform to standards related to generating revenue.

 Togusa wrote:
I would also say that Vigilis seems to be Cadia 2.0. If that is true, I could see them introducing new models, campaign books, and possibly this fabled codex we've been discussing. I'm actually very interested to see what is in that set.

Again, who cares about that? This is supposed to be a thread about the release of a Black Legion Codex. The evidence you have provided for that happening is questionable, and your response to questions has been to dodge / evade / introduce new predictions / call people stupid.

There is nothing to suggest GW is bought into Vigilus any more than any other setting in 40k. Why would they focus on this one instead of others? The fact they have a series of starter boxes with that name on it isn't very compelling.

 Togusa wrote:
Custodians? I believe that was a suppliment that became a full codex, yet another army nearly everyone told me wouldn't ever exist within 40K proper. We don't know what they're going to do, I bet they've flip flopped in internal discussions on this issue half a dozen times trying to plan out the next decade of this game.

Custodes had a Supplement? You would have to remind me which, I have every Supplement released in iBooks and don't see it. Tell me when it was released and where it appeared.

Or do you mean an article in White Dwarf that did not cost anyone anything beyond the cover price? That's different from the Black Legion supplement which people had to pay for.

Not many people paid for those Supplements, much less the Black Legion one. Companies tend not to upgrade things that don't sell.

 Togusa wrote:
I believe those star fortresses are heavily tied to the historical lore of the legion, if a new one has been found, I can see an easy case made for Abbadon wanting to beat the imperium to securing it for himself. I believe that Deathwatch overkill brought us two armies, did it not?

We're not talking about the lore, we are talking about the boardgame. The fact Abaddon has had a few of them is irrelevant.

I've been reading some of the cards that come with the boxed game. Not going to spoil them, but it doesn't work out well for the Black Legion in more than a few of them.

 Togusa wrote:
I neither believe them nor disbelieve them, I simply sighted the most recent and relevant buzz with regards to the topic, I believe my blanket statement about this being a prediction and not some fact from GW covered that statement, but suffice it to say none of us should ever believe anything until we see it on the community site.

Then why cite them as evidence a Codex is about to be released? You're telling me you are just blowing smoke.

 Togusa wrote:
I haven't any knowledge of Tooth and Claw. So I cannot comment on that, haven't read a whole lot of the vigilis stuff yet.

Then why claim GW could be releasing an entire game setting based around Vigilus, complete with Codexes, which you just did?

 Togusa wrote:
As for the last part, how many times do I have to reiterate. This is a discussion about predictions, it is specifically why I placed it here in this forum and not over in "news and rumors" with the title "A guy I know says abbadon and his squad are coming on December 18th 2018 in a new Black Legion codex."

Yet you continue to wrap those predictions up with language that suggests GW is signalling the release of new models, new Codexes, etc. When you are challenged on the specifics, you become very defensive and suggest people in this thread are somehow unable to understand what you are saying.

I understand what you are saying. You have a wishlist, there is zero evidence to support it happening, and you are citing all these separate things to give the impression something's up. It's misleading and dishonest.

You'd do better moving this thread to Bell of Lost Souls. They might even put it on the front page and quote you in 20 articles as a source for upcoming releases.

 Togusa wrote:
If possible, could you answer a question for me?

Are you aware of anything in the teaser images that GW was shown in say, the last 15 months that we haven't seen yet, that might fit either generic CSM models? I've tried to look at all of their spoilers hoping to find more possible evidence, but there isn't a singular location where they can all be easily viewed that I am aware of.

I could care less about teaser images. The information I get about new releases comes from another source.

I really only care about things that appear on the release schedule, which is a spreadsheet that gets circulated and details the approximate dates of release of GW models over the calendar year.

Put me down on the "not happening" list. I appreciate the enthusiasm, though.

May I suggest 7th edition if you are interested in a Black Legion Codex?

They essentially had three at the same time;

Codex: Chaos Space Marines (generic mixed marines, i.e. Black Legion). Codex: Black Legion (for typical Black Legion armies) and Codex: Black Crusade (for Black Legion Armies unified under a Black Crusade).

I would be very surprised if there was ever another Black Legion codex, let alone any time soon.

What does Blackstone Fortress have to do with Black Legion? There are 3 models with the Black Legion keyword in the box, they don't add a lot to the army. If you are correct and the inclusion of these 3 models is a signal of an upcoming release, that would be a first for Games Workshop - I can't think of another example where a boxed game heralded the issuance of a new army book or models. Can you explain to me why you see this as a signal, or give an example of when that's happened before?

Just a note on this one, Silver Tower. The hostiles from silver tower were released on their own. That's why I am hoping for traitor guard on their own from the box.

Eh... I have a feeling we will see Emporers Children, and hopefully World Eaters. New Abaddon I don't feel will signal a BL only codex; maybe a CSM codex rework.

I'd like to see EC come with Fulgrim, and as his foil another loyalist Primarch comes back; same with WE. Then we get a set box featuring the two factions which would support buying the Primarchs.

Sir Heckington wrote:

What does Blackstone Fortress have to do with Black Legion? There are 3 models with the Black Legion keyword in the box, they don't add a lot to the army. If you are correct and the inclusion of these 3 models is a signal of an upcoming release, that would be a first for Games Workshop - I can't think of another example where a boxed game heralded the issuance of a new army book or models. Can you explain to me why you see this as a signal, or give an example of when that's happened before?

Just a note on this one, Silver Tower. The hostiles from silver tower were released on their own. That's why I am hoping for traitor guard on their own from the box.

I agree, also weren't tzaangors first seen in the silver tower boxed set too?

Its a leap of chaotic faith to get from blackfortress to black legion codex but have you guys seen the new black legion model on the warhammer community page...Something black legion is building

 Nithaniel wrote:

Sir Heckington wrote:

What does Blackstone Fortress have to do with Black Legion? There are 3 models with the Black Legion keyword in the box, they don't add a lot to the army. If you are correct and the inclusion of these 3 models is a signal of an upcoming release, that would be a first for Games Workshop - I can't think of another example where a boxed game heralded the issuance of a new army book or models. Can you explain to me why you see this as a signal, or give an example of when that's happened before?

Just a note on this one, Silver Tower. The hostiles from silver tower were released on their own. That's why I am hoping for traitor guard on their own from the box.

I agree, also weren't tzaangors first seen in the silver tower boxed set too?

Its a leap of chaotic faith to get from blackfortress to black legion codex but have you guys seen the new black legion model on the warhammer community page...Something black legion is building

Looks the be a new named Black Legion Character. Is it safe to assume that BL along with Ultras will play a large role in Campaign: Vigilus?

I somewhat expect that Abbadon to be the first to get the Fabius Bile Primaris treatment.

That would make him Horus sized right?

 Togusa wrote:
Looks the be a new named Black Legion Character. Is it safe to assume that BL along with Ultras will play a large role in Campaign: Vigilus?

A character so crippled by keywords that he's basically useless outside of a highly questionable, specialized detachment comprised entirely of the Black Fortress models. Sorry, he just doesn't even shiver the needle, however, I will be keeping an eye out for the twelve foot tall nipple mentioned earlier in the thread, I've been wondering why we didn't have that model for years. Also, I could be wrong, but my understanding is that BSF is entirely separate from Vigilus.

Also, Space Wolves have already been introduced as the Adeptus Astartes component of Vigilus.

To be fair, there used to be an Ultramarine codex - I think it just became “Space Marines” in 5th, maybe 6th. GW has been switching back and forth about breaking out the marine chapters (Chaos & Loyalist) out their own books or consolidating them; this edition they seem to be leaning towards breaking them out to stretch the longevity of this edition.

I’m just hoping that one day there will be a Salamander’s codex.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Looks the be a new named Black Legion Character. Is it safe to assume that BL along with Ultras will play a large role in Campaign: Vigilus?

A character so crippled by keywords that he's basically useless outside of a highly questionable, specialized detachment comprised entirely of the Black Fortress models. Sorry, he just doesn't even shiver the needle, however, I will be keeping an eye out for the twelve foot tall nipple mentioned earlier in the thread, I've been wondering why we didn't have that model for years. Also, I could be wrong, but my understanding is that BSF is entirely separate from Vigilus.

Also, Space Wolves have already been introduced as the Adeptus Astartes component of Vigilus.

I'm talking about the jump pack guy from the Vigilus weekend, he's a lackey of Abbadon and a new BL character coming with that set, not the generic Chaos Warlord from BSF.

From the WH Community page "The Black Legion have come to Vigilus – led by the sinister herald known as Haarken Worldclaimer. This new champion of the Dark Gods has declared that the world of Vigilus will fall to the Warmaster, within 80 days…"

Space Wolves are there, it seems that Ultramarines will probably be there too.

"Calgar won’t be retaking Vigilus without a fight. After Orks, Aeldari and the Genestealer Cults have all but shattered the defences of the planet, the herald of a new doom descends…"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
To be fair, there used to be an Ultramarine codex - I think it just became “Space Marines” in 5th, maybe 6th. GW has been switching back and forth about breaking out the marine chapters (Chaos & Loyalist) out their own books or consolidating them; this edition they seem to be leaning towards breaking them out to stretch the longevity of this edition.

I’m just hoping that one day there will be a Salamander’s codex.

As am I.

Honestly throw my lot in with the not gonna get one crowd. At this point it seems that at best there may eventually be a new Abbadon, and primaris chaos marines. But I think we’re more likely to get an ynnari codex than a black legion one and that’s basically non-existent.

EC + Fulgrim would be cool though.

Reemule wrote:
I somewhat expect that Abbadon to be the first to get the Fabius Bile Primaris treatment.

That would make him Horus sized right?

Would be a good segue to introduce Primaris to Chaos - if they do that at any point in the future. I'm still sceptical they will get that treatment at all.

Has anyone considered - what if the Abbadon model we know at the moment is completely gone later on and he finally receives Daemonhood for his service? A model on par with Archaon - Primarch sized. Let the conspiracy begin!

Coded black legion is coming, well... not quite “codex”

Hmmm.

 Togusa wrote:
Hmmm.

Vigilus 2nd book.

dhallnet wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Hmmm.

Vigilus 2nd book.

It's quite possible.

Seems like the Black Legion are taking the lead in this Campaign for the forces of Chaos.