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2019/03/16 00:16:49
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
Anything other than Angron is objectively wrong. Angron LITERALLY grew up as a gladiator. Considering all the Primarchs are psykers to one degree or another, I am absolutely certain Angrons rage will literally manifest to stop Magnus's or Lorgar's shenanigans and he will proceed to beat them to death with their own livers. Ferrus Manus? More like Ferrus Stop-hitting-yourself-us.
The dude, again LITERALLY got stomped on by a Titan AND WON.
And lets not forget that Angron beat multiple other Primarchs in fights before. He only "lost" the fight against Russ because he was more focused on killing Russ than surviving the actual battle. And even then he outright told Leman to kill him if he was man enough, and Leman didn't.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/03/16 00:36:01
2019/03/16 00:41:53
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
MinscS2 wrote: Vulkan is the only primarch who's also a perpetual, so he'd obviously win, given enough time.
I think it still counts as losing if he dies then respawns
"Dies"? He's a perpetual, he can't die. He just get's KO:ed and then wakes up some time later, ready for round two...or eightytwo. Eventually he will win.
5500 pts 6500 pts 7000 pts 9000 pts 13.000 pts
2019/03/16 09:09:53
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
MinscS2 wrote: Vulkan is the only primarch who's also a perpetual, so he'd obviously win, given enough time.
I think it still counts as losing if he dies then respawns
"Dies"? He's a perpetual, he can't die. He just get's KO:ed and then wakes up some time later, ready for round two...or eightytwo. Eventually he will win.
Except the OP's rules forbid that. Also, he goes crazy if killed enough. Curze accomplished that once. He can do it again.
MinscS2 wrote: Vulkan is the only primarch who's also a perpetual, so he'd obviously win, given enough time.
I think it still counts as losing if he dies then respawns
"Dies"? He's a perpetual, he can't die. He just get's KO:ed and then wakes up some time later, ready for round two...or eightytwo. Eventually he will win.
Except the OP's rules forbid that. Also, he goes crazy if killed enough. Curze accomplished that once. He can do it again.
The 'Stop resurrecting yourself' is an interesting variant on a classic theme.
2019/03/16 13:05:12
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
Size and strength are very important in unarmed combat. Since all the primarchs are such skilled fighters i think it will mostly come down to physical might so vulkan wins.
2019/03/16 23:10:50
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
kingheff wrote: Size and strength are very important in unarmed combat. Since all the primarchs are such skilled fighters i think it will mostly come down to physical might so vulkan wins.
I thought that Ferrus was supposed to be physically the strongest of the Primarchs. He died so early on we didn't get to see very much of this in action.
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
2019/03/17 12:11:33
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
Dont forget the lion grew up on a deathworld fighting chaos beasts with no weapons or armour barring what he might of scavenged. That should make him a pretty good brawler, level headed in battle and a good strategist means he would be better than most.
Tbf i think it falls more into probable tiers than definitive list.
Lion, Angron and Russ as some of the more feral/pugellistic charachters.
The lion has his whole grand strategy thing, trained as knight for several types of fighting.
Angron is king brawler with the nails to buff his strength and stamina and debuff his strategy.
And russ is russ enough said as he is mr primarch stopper allegedly
2019/03/17 21:05:11
Subject: Re:Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
Another vote for Angron. He's not the most brilliant commander, he's not the most charismatic leader, and he's not a psychic juggernaut. What he does do is break things into their component parts.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2019/03/18 12:49:17
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
kingheff wrote: Size and strength are very important in unarmed combat. Since all the primarchs are such skilled fighters i think it will mostly come down to physical might so vulkan wins.
You've clearly never seen jiu jitsu in action.
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2019/03/18 13:51:24
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
kingheff wrote: Size and strength are very important in unarmed combat. Since all the primarchs are such skilled fighters i think it will mostly come down to physical might so vulkan wins.
You've clearly never seen jiu jitsu in action.
Yes I have and if you look at competitive jiu jitsu it's divided into weight classes, like every single other combat sport. There's a reason for this, size and strength are virtually unassailable I between similarly skilled fighters.
2019/03/18 21:21:49
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
kingheff wrote: Size and strength are very important in unarmed combat. Since all the primarchs are such skilled fighters i think it will mostly come down to physical might so vulkan wins.
You've clearly never seen jiu jitsu in action.
Yes I have and if you look at competitive jiu jitsu it's divided into weight classes, like every single other combat sport. There's a reason for this, size and strength are virtually unassailable I between similarly skilled fighters.
Then you should watch some of the early PRIDE FC exhibition fights with no weight divisions.
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children
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2019/03/18 22:03:06
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
I've actually fought mma and still train in thai boxing and jiu jitsu. I can categorically and accurately state, that the most common factor that determines fight outcome against suitably and rather equally skilled opponents is physical attributes. It's once in a blue moon that a fighter comes about that is not athletically outstanding but is dominant, and that is usually down to fight IQ or what we know as strategic IQ.
Obviously the most dominating is the physically gifted genetic freak with the mind as sharp as an iron.
For those of you stating Ferrus, metal arms are no good if you can't land them. For those stating magnus, if you can avoid the psychic powers, do you understand how easy it is to get a larger foe on to the floor when you are smaller?
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2019/03/19 07:05:20
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops
Karfang wrote: Dont forget the lion grew up on a deathworld fighting chaos beasts with no weapons or armour barring what he might of scavenged. That should make him a pretty good brawler, level headed in battle and a good strategist means he would be better than most.
Tbf i think it falls more into probable tiers than definitive list.
Lion, Angron and Russ as some of the more feral/pugellistic charachters.
The lion has his whole grand strategy thing, trained as knight for several types of fighting.
Angron is king brawler with the nails to buff his strength and stamina and debuff his strategy.
And russ is russ enough said as he is mr primarch stopper allegedly
Both the Lion and Russ have definitively lost fights to Curze and Angron, respectively. We absolutely know neither of them would be the winner.
Angron, Sanguinius, and Curze are all top tier. The latter two with their future sight, Angron with the Nails. I don't think we know how much a Primarch's Deny the Witch works against a Primarch, but we do know that Russ kicked the crap out of Magnus, although Russ's additional resistance to psyker magicks might have made the difference. The twins deserve more credit than they are getting, as there are two of them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just found this.
Spoiler:
Before Loken could answer, Russ went on. 'In the old days, in the Crusade I thought I could beat most of my brothers. Maybe not Sanguinius. In him there is a fine blend of skill and fury. He is a baresark in angel's garb. Or the Night Haunter, for he has the heedless power of the insane. But the others… Angron? He's too angry. Fulgrim?' He shrugged. 'Too proud. Perturabo and Dorn are too stolid. Guilliman is too stern to enjoy battle and so I would beat him too. Lorgar I could spit on and that would drop him into the dirt, he's so weak from all that kneeling. Alpharius is a wretched serpent. And we all know what happened to the great sorcerer of Prospero. The rest I could defeat as easily as this.' He snapped his fingers. 'Horus though,' he grimaced. 'Put to it, one on one, I could have beaten him. It would have been hard, and close fought, and had fortune favoured him over me, he would have triumphed. But the feat was within my grasp. So tell me, Garviel Loken, is it now? Can I still kill him?'
Russ himself says that Sanguinius or Curze could probably beat him. I'm willing to take Leman at his word on this one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/19 07:13:34
It's difficult to back anything up here using the literature though because they are mostly outside the parameters of the question, eg using weapons, armour, battlefield scenario etc.
Seeing as unarmed combat is never really mentioned in descriptions of primarchs attributes, they are all basically on an even playing field. The only one with anything that can actively aid bare chested, unarmed one on one squared circle combat is Angron. There is the odd minor point, like magnus being very tall (and thus deductively having a longer reach than his shorter brothers)here and there but other than that you can't really say.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It could make for some cool short stories though, Primarch exhibition fights..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/19 09:42:17
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children
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2019/03/19 09:57:15
Subject: Re:Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
I don't know how closed the Arena is but if it has a high ceiling or no ceiling, I have to go with Sanguinius because he takes immense skill and physical prowess and combines it with flight. If the arena allows him to fly he gets to dictate the encounter. If he doesn't get to fly, he is still absurdly skilled and has a really vicious berserker rage if he needs it.
2019/03/19 10:35:16
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
Oh yeah I forgot about sangy enhancements. I think it should be stipulated that the roof is low, only a few feet above his wing tops, that or his wings are bound to avoid giving an unfair advantage.
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2019/03/20 02:21:16
Subject: Re:Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
How fast can Vulkan heal? I don't remember if he needs to die for it to kick in or not? If he can basically wolverine his way back from anything short of death (which by the rules would knock him out) that's a huge advantage.
2019/03/20 07:16:03
Subject: Re:Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops
HoundsofDemos wrote: How fast can Vulkan heal? I don't remember if he needs to die for it to kick in or not? If he can basically wolverine his way back from anything short of death (which by the rules would knock him out) that's a huge advantage.
Poor ol' Lorgar. Not even a single vote? Well, I guess that's what one gets for being the biggest scumbag to crawl out of one of the Emperor's test tubes.
Darth Bob wrote:I'm not sure having Alpharius and Omegon fighting as a pair is really fair. Alpharius on his own almost killed Dorn in a duel, and even if they are smaller and physically weaker than their other brothers, the differences aren't so drastic that it's going to mean a 2v1 is fair. Moreso when you consider perfectly coordinated, multi-pronged attacks are literally the Alpha Legion's thing.
I only stipulated that they come as a pair because it's kind of their thing. As I said, the fight doesn't have to be fair if the benefit is fundamental to the character.
tneva82 wrote:Well word from authors is all are able to beat all depending.
This of course is the only really valid answer. The situation I propose is entirely without merit in relation to the actual lore, but people seem to enjoy these kinds of speculative exercises.
I can't recall how long I set this poll to expire, but interesting results so far.
Edit: I left it open forever apparently.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/20 09:35:03
2019/03/20 11:40:01
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
Delvarus Centurion wrote:Guilliman does not fight Angron and Lorgar at the same time. Lorgar duelled with him and then stopped, THEN Guilliman and Angron duelled. Lorgar was busy bringing the power from the warp through to the materium. Angron and Guilliman fought alone and Angron beat the absolute breaks off him with ease. Argal Tal said that Guilliman had no hope against Angron as he watched.
Did you mean Lhorke? On page 394, quote "Guilliman had no hope against Angron", which I agree with.
However, on the previous page (the same paragraph even!), Lhorke also says "Guilliman had been holding his own against both of them, until Lorgar ceased his attack and started his achingly resonant chant". Therefore, I do think it fair to assume that Guilliman was fighting both, until Lorgar disengages, and then starts buffing Angron indirectly from the Warp, and while not winning, the fact he could stand up to both and not just instantly get destroyed is something I've not seen from another Primarch yet - maybe except Kurze, who stands against both Guilliman and the Lion (but then, Kurze is using the surroundings to level the playing field - Guilliman doesn't have that here).
Also, nitpicking, but Angron doesn't "beat him easily" - Guilliman lands some serious hits in ("huge rents and gashes marked his flesh from the knuckles of Guilliman's gauntlets") - but that's not to say Angron wasn't winning. Angron would have won, with or without Lorgar, but Angron wasn't destroying Guilliman with ease. This still supports what Lhorke says about Guilliman having no hope - it might not be quick and brutal, but rather longer and more drawn out pummeling.
Thank you Sgt_Smudge. I don't have the books any more so couldn't check for reference but this is the quote, I was just wrong with Argel Tal, but knew the quote was in there.
No pity, no remorse, no shoes
2019/03/25 09:46:03
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
slave.entity wrote: If psychic powers are allowed Magnus wins because psychic powers are basically cheating.
If no psychic powers are allowed... I vote Horus Lupercal. The Luna Wolves were never the most powerful psykers, or the most meticulous strategists, or the most ferocious hand-to-hand combatants. Their chapter and primarch are characterized by an overwhelming pride and ambition that were only ever rivaled by the emperor Himself. If Horus really wanted to come out on top in this fist fight, then he would come out on top. No question.
After all, up until the Heresy Horus's entire character was defined by one trait: winning.
Here's proof that Horus wins this fight. If you don't believe me, then believe Leman Russ
Vengeful Spirit, chapter 3
Spoiler:
‘Horus Lupercal will kill you,’ said Loken.
Had he named any other individual, Loken had no doubt the Wolf King would have torn his throat out
before he’d even known what was happening. Instead, Russ nodded.
‘You’re right,’ he said, his eyes taking on a distant look as he relived old battles. ‘I’ve fought every one
of my brothers over the centuries, either in training or with blooded blade. I know for a fact I can kill any
one of them if had to… but Horus.’
Russ shook his head and his next words were spoken like a shameful confession, each one a bitter
curse.
‘He’s the only one I don’t know if I can beat.’
---
2019/03/25 12:49:45
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
Meanwhile, in the real world outside of Furry Furringtons headcanon, Angron was one punch away from killing Leman Russ, and only lost because Russ had his lapdogs pointing heavy weaponry at him and sadly he had not yet found the method of turning Pure Rage into immortality.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/25 13:32:54
2019/03/25 14:08:46
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
slave.entity wrote: If psychic powers are allowed Magnus wins because psychic powers are basically cheating.
If no psychic powers are allowed... I vote Horus Lupercal. The Luna Wolves were never the most powerful psykers, or the most meticulous strategists, or the most ferocious hand-to-hand combatants. Their chapter and primarch are characterized by an overwhelming pride and ambition that were only ever rivaled by the emperor Himself. If Horus really wanted to come out on top in this fist fight, then he would come out on top. No question.
After all, up until the Heresy Horus's entire character was defined by one trait: winning.
Here's proof that Horus wins this fight. If you don't believe me, then believe Leman Russ
Vengeful Spirit, chapter 3
Spoiler:
‘Horus Lupercal will kill you,’ said Loken.
Had he named any other individual, Loken had no doubt the Wolf King would have torn his throat out
before he’d even known what was happening. Instead, Russ nodded.
‘You’re right,’ he said, his eyes taking on a distant look as he relived old battles. ‘I’ve fought every one
of my brothers over the centuries, either in training or with blooded blade. I know for a fact I can kill any
one of them if had to… but Horus.’
Russ shook his head and his next words were spoken like a shameful confession, each one a bitter
curse.
‘He’s the only one I don’t know if I can beat.’
Doesn't really work when later on Russ nearly kills Horus and only didn't because he wasn't okay killing another of his brothers.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
2019/03/25 21:24:33
Subject: Which Primarch would win in a one-on-one fist fight?
Niiai wrote: The Lions track record is quite good.
No, it's not. The Lion lost his first fight against Curze, and it was unfair in the Lion's favor. It started with the Lion sucker-stabbing Curze in the gut, was closely matched sword against claws, and then ended in a Curze win with Curze choking the life out of the Lion. The only reason the Lion didn't die was due to outside interference.... and that was a match that started will for the Lion. Deprived of weapons, at full health, and without outside influence, Curze defeats the Lion, no contest.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Characters that are definitely out: Lion (lost to Curze solidly in a fight that a brawl), Dorn, Russ (solid loss to Angron), Lorgar, Guilliman (almost killed by a handful of Alpha Legionnaires, ran from Angron, etc).
I have my doubts: Fulgrim,
Crap! Time for work. Will finish this later. Maybe we should do a bracket, since its March Madness, and pair random primarchs in brawls and see who wins by vote.
The Lion then beat the crap out of Curze the next two fights. The Lion beat Curze so bad the third time I still consider him having killed Curze. Only reason he didnt is because Sanguinius told him not to.
123ply: Dataslate- 4/4/3/3/1/3/1/8/6+
Autopistol, Steel Extendo, Puma Hoodie
USRs: "Preferred Enemy: Xenos"
"Hatred: Xenos"
"Racist and Proud of it" - Gains fleshbane, rending, rage, counter-attack, and X2 strength and toughness when locked in combat with units not in the "Imperium of Man" faction.
5500 pts 
6500 pts 
7000 pts 
9000 pts 
13.000 pts 
Well, I guess that's what one gets for being the biggest scumbag to crawl out of one of the Emperor's test tubes. 
Skitarii/Cult Mech: 1380/2000pts
Khorne Daemonkin - Host of the Nervous Knife: 1701/2000pts
Orks - Rampage Axez: 1753/2000pts