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Are you seriously suggesting that current Flamers are fine against hordes?

Hordes are VERY meta. Way more than power armor.

What about a compromise, which will shake the very foundations of the flamer:

Remove auto-hit.

Instead, replace it with "flamers always hit on a 2+".
Then, give flamers a 12" range.

So if you deepstrike with a heavy flamer, you count as moving, thus hit on a 3+. if you shoot a flier, you hit on a 4+.

It maintains the "low BS armies need this to hit hard things" by giving a 2+ to hit, it also gives the better range, making deepstrikers useful, but you also-also stop it being OP by making the more dangerous flamers heavy.

That sounds quite reasonable if it hits on 2+ (+ modifiers) on overwatch as well.

 some bloke wrote:

... "flamers always hit on a 2+"...

RAW, wouldn't this ignore all modifiers to hit?

 Orodhen wrote:

 some bloke wrote:

... "flamers always hit on a 2+"...

RAW, wouldn't this ignore all modifiers to hit?

It would need to say so ala Dark Reapers. You could just remove the "always" if you wanted.

I disagree about removing the auto-hit.
How about this instead:
Make Flamers 10-12" and Assault *. * equals the number of models of the target unit within the Flamers range, up to a max of X. X varies from flamer to flamer.

For example, the standard Flamer would be 10" Str4 Assault * AP-0: This weapon automatically hits once per enemy model of the target unit in range, up to 4 hits
So if you are shooting a unit of Ork Boyz, you'll get 4 hits if you have at least 4 Boy models within 10" of the Flamer model. Less Boys in range will be less attacks

Heavy Flamer could be 12" Str5 Assault * AP-1; This weapon automatically hits once per enemy model of the target unit in range, up to 5 hits
Hand Flamer could be 8" Str5 Pistol * AP-0; This weapon automatically hits once per enemy model of the target unit in range, up to 3 hits

So we'd remove the random roll entirely and make the number of hits dependent on number of models in range. This will also mitigate units dropping in with a Dozen Flamers from getting tons of hits. If a regular Flamer is 10", 1 model could arrive outside 9" and probably get max shots, but SEVERAL Flamer models would struggle to be placed in an optimal way to get max hits

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 Galef wrote:

 some bloke wrote:
So if you deepstrike with a heavy flamer, you count as moving, thus hit on a 3+. if you shoot a flier, you hit on a 4+.

Despite the name, Heavy Flamers are still Assault weapons, so moving does not apply a -1 to hit, unless you advance of course.

But I disagree about removing the auto-hit.
How about this instead:
Make Flamers 10-12" and Assault *. * equals the number of models of the target unit within the Flamers range, up to a max of X. X varies from flamer to flamer.

For example, the standard Flamer would be 10" Str4 Assault * AP-0: This weapon automatically hits once per enemy model of the target unit in range, up to 4 attacks
So if you are shooting a unit of Ork Boyz, you'll get 4 hits if you have at least 4 Boy models within 10" of the Flamer model.

Heavy Flamer could be 12" Str5 Assault * AP-1; This weapon automatically hits once per enemy model of the target unit in range, up to 5 attacks
Hand Flamer could be 8" Str5 Pistol * AP-0; This weapon automatically hits once per enemy model of the target unit in range, up to 3 attacks

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Heavy Flamers are Heavy D6

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Heavy Flamers are Heavy D6

Fair enough. I've edited my post above.
I always forget since the Auto-Hit makes it not matter (except that wouldn't be able to shoot after advance) and were Assault in prior editions

That was always silly to me in prior editions that Heavy Flamers were Assault and Assault Cannons were Heavy.
Now if we can petition to make Assault cannons Assault (but maybe go back to only 4 shots and a slightly lower points cost), than the names will make sense for both weapons

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I would honestly like to see a system like the volkite of HH

So I would be ok with a 10" if it had say 3 auto hits, any wound caused by the flamer roll a d6 on a 4+ inflict an additional hit, these hits do not then generate hits. To represent the target being on fire and either catching another member of the squad on fire from flailing or just still burning.