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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Ernestas wrote:
It is their decadence which had lead them to their fate. Robots are cool. Eldars could just set them up in intergalactic void and come back with massive galaxy conquering army of robots a millenia later made out from all of the material there.

They could also take some stars and planets who are in that void and mine it or settle it down. No more troubles for them and those areas are so isolated that even Tyranids most likely won't stumble there.

The decadence stemmed from not having to do anything which resulted from the robots. Robots were step 1 on the path to the Fall.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
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Do you think that this holds true anymore for an Eldar race? That robots will remove all their problems and they won't have to worry about anything again?

"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."

Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points. 
   
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UK

Part of the issue is that Eldar are a "broken" people. Long lifespans coupled to an insane level of fear from Slaanesh which preys on them even now with their very way of life.

Basically they are shattered and then entrapped within themselves. Plus if I recall right many of their heroes and leaders are from the time of the fall, so they saw their race at its best, at its worst and now shattered beyond repair. Basically I think they see a huge uphill struggle if they wanted to regain their Empire coupled with the fact that if they actually won back the Galaxy they'd STILL have to contend with Slaanesh.

I think the drive and motivation isn't there for them to rebuild themselves. At least within the standard Craftworld groups.

Settled and expanding Eldar I think we'd see more of from the Exodites if they became an actual army. Meanwhile the new Yinnari appears to be the group focusing on newer, younger Eldar who have a tiny bit more spark in them.



Eldar are basically a very slow to breed and repopulate species. Even with increased medical care its clear that they don't repopulate at a fast speed; which means that when you're in a state of constant war for thousands of years it becomes very hard to increase your population in a meaningful way. Especially if you've got to invest even more heavily into your population to stop it imploding and killing itself to Slaanesh.



Eldar are basically "caged"

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 Ernestas wrote:
It is their decadence which had lead them to their fate. Robots are cool. Eldars could just set them up in intergalactic void and come back with massive galaxy conquering army of robots a millenia later made out from all of the material there.

They could also take some stars and planets who are in that void and mine it or settle it down. No more troubles for them and those areas are so isolated that even Tyranids most likely won't stumble there.


I nearly agreed till I realized, no matter where you are. How well defended, hidden or isolated.

An Ork warboss WILL fly a Rok into your base.

Law of 40k.
   
Made in lt
Regular Dakkanaut





Each dot represents a star cluster. You see rough outline of our milky way galaxy. Do you see that there are quite a bit of stars who are loosely connected with our galaxy? Stars like these and other intergalactic stars would be a perfect place to settle. They are so far away from everyone that even warp there doesn't reach as it should. It is equivalent of building your civilization in a middle of Antarctica. You are pretty much destined to be isolated there. Plenty of space and time to start getting busy in bed while your robots create massive robot army from bunch of space dust and rocks to re-conquer entire galaxy.

Spoiler:



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/30 17:35:34


"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."

Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Ernestas wrote:
Do you think that this holds true anymore for an Eldar race? That robots will remove all their problems and they won't have to worry about anything again?

No but I also think it doesn't matter. Craftworlders live in a society where everything is based around avoiding what lead to the Fall at all costs, they won't let you be both a sculptor and a gardener they're so paranoid. Exodites intentionally live on worlds with almost no technology, Corsairs don't have the required industry and Dark Eldar would still have to do fighting etc themselves so why bother?

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
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There's got to be a reason why dark eldar don't use robots. their pain engines are as close as it gets yet they prefer vat grown eldar over robots.
   
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Stalwart Tribune





roboemperor wrote:
There's got to be a reason why dark eldar don't use robots. their pain engines are as close as it gets yet they prefer vat grown eldar over robots.

Vect has a bunch of them. He probably has a whole collection of exotic superweapons stashed away actually, but he uses these to get rid of his rivals, not build an empire. The status quo is very nice for him, after all.
   
Made in lt
Regular Dakkanaut





Considering how dangerous the galaxy is for an Eldar and how many unknown Craftworlds were lost already, I'm surprised that craftworld Eldars still choose to stay so involved in this galaxy's matters. I bet they could just flee into intergalactic space with everything they got and just travel for several millennia until they reach other galaxy. During that time they would recover and I believe that their craftworlds on their own are sustainable enough for such journeys.

"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."

Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points. 
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope




 Ernestas wrote:
Considering how dangerous the galaxy is for an Eldar and how many unknown Craftworlds were lost already, I'm surprised that craftworld Eldars still choose to stay so involved in this galaxy's matters. I bet they could just flee into intergalactic space with everything they got and just travel for several millennia until they reach other galaxy. During that time they would recover and I believe that their craftworlds on their own are sustainable enough for such journeys.


Crone Worlds.
   
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They are just creating problems for themselves where shouldn't be any problems to begin with.

"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."

Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points. 
   
Made in us
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Boskydell, IL

At least one craftworld tried that. Check out Ghost Warrior by Gav Thorpe to see how it worked out for them.

Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
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I assume that it went poorly for them. Nobody besides Orks can have a happy ending in W40k.

"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."

Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Jimsolo wrote:
At least one craftworld tried that. Check out Ghost Warrior by Gav Thorpe to see how it worked out for them.

Or don't if you don't want to waste your time and money.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Ernestas wrote:
Considering how dangerous the galaxy is for an Eldar and how many unknown Craftworlds were lost already, I'm surprised that craftworld Eldars still choose to stay so involved in this galaxy's matters. I bet they could just flee into intergalactic space with everything they got and just travel for several millennia until they reach other galaxy. During that time they would recover and I believe that their craftworlds on their own are sustainable enough for such journeys.

Uthwe would love to. Historically, their fluff has said they're caught in the orbit of the Eye.
Biel Tan wanted to restart the Eldar Empire where they were. They made some progress, but they've been disolved (for other reasons).
Mymera basically did this, trying to stay away from established empires and forces. They did fairly well over ten millennia, but couldn't entirely avoid the Imperium.
Iyanden is barely surviving. Not many options for what they do.
Saim-Hann are White Scar Mongoloid Wannabees. Where's the fun in that?
That really just leaves Alaitoc to possibly do it, of the major craftworlds.

Besides, if any Craftworld did it, they wouldn't be a major craftworld (as far as 40k was concerned).

Craftworlds don't move through the Webway themselves. A gate large enough for them to travel (either into or out of) the Webway would be really hard to find/build. And then, we don't know if the Craftworld could survive the trip (a number of things in a Craftworld don't have precedence for being seperated from the Warp).

Most Craftworlders are too busy with more immediate concerns. If they don't handle those concerns today, they don't exist tomorrow.
   
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There's no reason that leaving the galaxy would mean leaving the Warp. The problem is that the Craftworlds don't have the power to leave our galaxy and get to a new one.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
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pm713 wrote:
There's no reason that leaving the galaxy would mean leaving the Warp. The problem is that the Craftworlds don't have the power to leave our galaxy and get to a new one.

I was referring to the Webway - isn't there lore that it's between the Materium and the Immaterium?
   
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Bharring wrote:
pm713 wrote:
There's no reason that leaving the galaxy would mean leaving the Warp. The problem is that the Craftworlds don't have the power to leave our galaxy and get to a new one.

I was referring to the Webway - isn't there lore that it's between the Materium and the Immaterium?

I think it's like tunnels of reality through the Warp or something. It's really weird which is appropriate.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
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Eldar can't leave because they need access to crone worlds indefinitely.
   
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Newcastle, OZ

Yup. The crone worlds are their ONLY source of waystones, without them, EVERY eldar that dies, has their soul consumed by Slaanesh.

The webway has some passages big enough for certain classes of starship, but the craftworlds themselves massively DWARF those ships. Imperial battleships can fit inside some of the domed structures on the craftworlds.

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
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What's Chaos's excuse for stunted technological development?

Their warpsmiths are completely unhindered by anything and everything. Reverse engineering Tau tech should be ludicrously easy. And reverse engineering Necron tech is doable since I believe there are official examples of it being reverse engineered in lore.

edit: They also ran off with Men of Iron stuff. So why is their tech worse than imperium of man?
edit2: Also there is literally no reason why they can't kidnap earth caste members and brainwash them into revealing their tech.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/07 03:12:22


 
   
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In My Lab

roboemperor wrote:
What's Chaos's excuse for stunted technological development?

Their warpsmiths are completely unhindered by anything and everything. Reverse engineering Tau tech should be ludicrously easy. And reverse engineering Necron tech is doable since I believe there are official examples of it being reverse engineered in lore.
Silly Robo-Chaos can’t have nice things!

There’s really not a good one. There are some, but they all ring hollow.

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The dark hollows of Kentucky

roboemperor wrote:
What's Chaos's excuse for stunted technological development?

Their warpsmiths are completely unhindered by anything and everything. Reverse engineering Tau tech should be ludicrously easy. And reverse engineering Necron tech is doable since I believe there are official examples of it being reverse engineered in lore.

Because then they would have nice things the loyalists can't. And the salt would flow.
   
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roboemperor wrote:
What's Chaos's excuse for stunted technological development?

Their warpsmiths are completely unhindered by anything and everything. Reverse engineering Tau tech should be ludicrously easy. And reverse engineering Necron tech is doable since I believe there are official examples of it being reverse engineered in lore.

edit: They also ran off with Men of Iron stuff. So why is their tech worse than imperium of man?
edit2: Also there is literally no reason why they can't kidnap earth caste members and brainwash them into revealing their tech.

They all live in a dimension where an angry demon can rewrite their laws of physics at will so they have to start from scratch every fortnight. Plus no resources, constant infighting and nobody else understands the weird tech they make.

It's presumably difficult to just grab an earth caste scientist and even if you do they're incredibly brainwashed and would probably kill themselves. Reverse engineering cron tech is like expecting a cave man to reverse engineer a nuclear reactor.

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pm713 wrote:
roboemperor wrote:
What's Chaos's excuse for stunted technological development?

Their warpsmiths are completely unhindered by anything and everything. Reverse engineering Tau tech should be ludicrously easy. And reverse engineering Necron tech is doable since I believe there are official examples of it being reverse engineered in lore.

edit: They also ran off with Men of Iron stuff. So why is their tech worse than imperium of man?
edit2: Also there is literally no reason why they can't kidnap earth caste members and brainwash them into revealing their tech.

They all live in a dimension where an angry demon can rewrite their laws of physics at will so they have to start from scratch every fortnight. Plus no resources, constant infighting and nobody else understands the weird tech they make.

It's presumably difficult to just grab an earth caste scientist and even if you do they're incredibly brainwashed and would probably kill themselves. Reverse engineering cron tech is like expecting a cave man to reverse engineer a nuclear reactor.


it's hard to do science when your petri dishes occasionally grow legs and crawl away

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I suppose that all the scheming and backstabbing that comes with chaos doesn't encourage the sharing of ideas and knowledge.
   
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pm713 wrote:
[quote=roboemperor 783430 10709453 nullThey all live in a dimension where an angry demon can rewrite their laws of physics at will so they have to start from scratch every fortnight. Plus no resources, constant infighting and nobody else understands the weird tech they make.


Aren't the Dark Mechanicum completely in charge of their own worlds?
And are the Dark Mechanicum just as backstabby as the rest? I thought they didn't give a damn about daemonic ascension and stuff and only care about tech.
   
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roboemperor wrote:
pm713 wrote:
[quote=roboemperor 783430 10709453 nullThey all live in a dimension where an angry demon can rewrite their laws of physics at will so they have to start from scratch every fortnight. Plus no resources, constant infighting and nobody else understands the weird tech they make.


Aren't the Dark Mechanicum completely in charge of their own worlds?
And are the Dark Mechanicum just as backstabby as the rest? I thought they didn't give a damn about daemonic ascension and stuff and only care about tech.
They're certainly not hunky-dory with each other, but it's hardly impossible for a single strong warmaster or warpsmith or someone else to take control of a Dark Forgeworld, or at least part of it, and unit their efforts.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
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 chromedog wrote:
Yup. The crone worlds are their ONLY source of waystones, without them, EVERY eldar that dies, has their soul consumed by Slaanesh.

The webway has some passages big enough for certain classes of starship, but the craftworlds themselves massively DWARF those ships. Imperial battleships can fit inside some of the domed structures on the craftworlds.


Craftworld Eldar yep...although:

Well def Slaanesh and co try to eat you.
If they die in the craftworld - can they not go straight into the infinity circuit.
You can move between the different Eldar kindreds - not sure how you say gain the thirst etc.
I assume that the Chaos Gods exist in the void betwen galaxies and in every galaxy but do they?

I suppose that all the scheming and backstabbing that comes with chaos doesn't encourage the sharing of ideas and knowledge.
it does - you just have to be the one being the most effective schemer and/or backstabber - see Skaven

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/07 18:48:39


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I suppose that Eldars will just go straight to their infinity circuit. Thought, I wanted to show people how ridiculous their previous thinking was. You can't utilize gas giants and any other type of resource, because:

1) Wrong type of element.
2) Difficult gathering of said material.
3) Difficult extraction of said material.

Gas giants has absolutely massive gravity fields, anyone descending low enough is likely never going up unless expending far more energy than it had gained. Secondly, conditions in those giant planets are extreme. No race, not even old ones would be capable of establishing mining outposts there and mine with any sort of efficiency. Lastly, weapons of war, especially complex ones requires rare resources to harvest. What you are talking are very basic and common resources. They are useless to you in doing anything really. In order to make use of them you need to literally re-arrange electrons, protons and neutrons around manually and that will cost so much energy that you better just making one big laser and using that energy to blast entire star systems apart.


As why Chaos isn't innovating. Well, it is. There are many issues with Dark Mechanicus. Other posters had mentioned some, but those aren't really that important. Nobody in eye of terror are making equipment which only functions in warp, because if they do so, what are you going to use in real space? Even in Eye of Terror, level of unreality spilling into reality is mixed, so in some areas your ship might function and in other parts it might just fall apart. Why Chaos isn't innovating is simply GW treats Chaos poorly in general. Often they are degraded to saturday cartoon villains with plot devices. Sometimes Chaos feel like spikey, evil version of IG and Space marines. We need competent writer at GW to write actual Chaos lore.

Second reason is that they do in fact create their new stuff. For example, Chaos had developed completely new class of ship not seen even during glory days of W30k. This ship is called: Planet Killer and completely outclasses everything in W40k with perhaps things like Craftworlds, Blackstone Fortresses, Phalanx, etc. Then we have various demon engines who proved themselves to be more efficient beyond that Imperium mass produces. Things like Stalk tanks, Defilers, Helldrakes. They utilize level of science whole degree greater than that of an Imperium and Chaos technicians works on a same level, although a lot more primitively as Eldar do. It is like, Chaos just invented first electronic computers and Eldar have computers of today. Same tech, but one is vastly more advanced. Imperium in this analogy would only possess mechanical devices.

To Chaos, Tau tech would be one level lower than the tech they already possess, but Imperium and Chaos are feudal societies. That means that level of development and pretty much everything can vary greatly between sector to sector. For example, in one area of space, Imperial guard's most advanced tech can be lasgun or even degraded version of that. Their troops being reduced to horses for transportation and high tech like space ships are being sent by the God to them. While on other Imperial Guard troops can widely deploy plasma based weaponary which rivals Tau tech. Ryza world is a great example. Chaos is the same, one world is nothing more than bunch of mad fanatics and zealots running around and punching each other with clubs and looted ancient artifacts like stub guns and lasguns while other is highly technological advanced and industrialized world which fights in ordered formation and approaches world around it rationally.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/02/11 11:22:51


"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."

Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points. 
   
 
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