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Made in gb
Wing Commander





Bristol (UK)

Andykp wrote:
So if some one came to you with a pen army with fluff, and part of that was that one of the marines was half eldar, and they had a good story as to why and how but it had no impact in the game, no impact on the table top it’s just their background story, would you not allow that? Would tell them they can’t do that? GW aren’t about to write that story again but why can’t Bob, our imaginary gamer here?

I thought I was pretty explicit that there's nothing wrong with headcanon?

If he came to me saying it was true and just as valid as if it were printed in the codex, I'd say it's not. It's a cool story, but it's not canon.
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Andykp wrote:
So if some one came to you with a pen army with fluff, and part of that was that one of the marines was half eldar, and they had a good story as to why and how but it had no impact in the game, no impact on the table top it’s just their background story, would you not allow that? Would tell them they can’t do that? GW aren’t about to write that story again but why can’t Bob, our imaginary gamer here?

I thought I was pretty explicit that there's nothing wrong with headcanon?

If he came to me saying it was true and just as valid as if it were printed in the codex, I'd say it's not. It's a cool story, but it's not canon.


But that is you saying what is official canon, from an actual official stand point it’s all canon or all head canon. You cannot decide what is official and what isn’t. You saying half eldar marines can’t exist is as much head canon as saying they can. The official stance is that it’s all canon and nothing is. You as a player do not have the authority to say what’s canon or not. That is gatekeeping.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’ll put it this way, where does it say from GW, and please provide a quote, that old background is no longer official and not “canon” as defined by you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/11 11:21:50


 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






It wasn’t just the basic Astartes that were redefined throughout Rogue Trader.

Dreadnoughts for example, began as something akin to Tau Battlesuits - large scale battle armour, which the pilot could exit. Downside was Suit Psychosis, essentially and addiction to wearing, and mental deterioration caused by wearing, the suit. In extremes, the pilot was best off left in side.

But, no later than White Dwarf 145? They’d become the life support combat walkers we now know them as.

So.....which is canon?.

It’s both again, isn’t it, with just a weeny bit of gap filling.

Start off with the Rogue Trader ones, representing perhaps early attempts at the Technology. As Suit Psychosis continues apace, they find the pilot can live near indefinitely thanks to the inputs. And as such, can support a shattered husk of a near-corpse. This in turn allows veteran warriors to continue bringing their expertise for centuries.

Or both existed throughout, but it was found the Corpse Carriage variant was more efficient, and so the exitable suit fell out of favour, as the available resources were better spent on producing and maintaining the clearly superior option.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Utilizing Careful Highlighting




U.k

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It wasn’t just the basic Astartes that were redefined throughout Rogue Trader.

Dreadnoughts for example, began as something akin to Tau Battlesuits - large scale battle armour, which the pilot could exit. Downside was Suit Psychosis, essentially and addiction to wearing, and mental deterioration caused by wearing, the suit. In extremes, the pilot was best off left in side.

But, no later than White Dwarf 145? They’d become the life support combat walkers we now know them as.

So.....which is canon?.

It’s both again, isn’t it, with just a weeny bit of gap filling.

Start off with the Rogue Trader ones, representing perhaps early attempts at the Technology. As Suit Psychosis continues apace, they find the pilot can live near indefinitely thanks to the inputs. And as such, can support a shattered husk of a near-corpse. This in turn allows veteran warriors to continue bringing their expertise for centuries.

Or both existed throughout, but it was found the Corpse Carriage variant was more efficient, and so the exitable suit fell out of favour, as the available resources were better spent on producing and maintaining the clearly superior option.


You’re right, there’s no need to discount older fluff just because of newer stuff contradicting it. The way forge world handled many Heresy releases was to make old classic models and mks into heresy era tech. Fallen out of favour in 40K marine armies.

Unlike a film or book franchise where the story is the start point the story in 40K is an ends to means. What you have suggested is no more head canon than anyone saying it’s impossible, it was retconned.

The world that games take place on in my group and the narrative we run is very inspired by old fluff, it has squats and sensei on it but it’s tempered by the modern fluff, the squats are few and the sensei says she is one but could quite easily be mad as a box of frogs, the whole thing is set now in post indomitus crusade era 40K, which according to 9th has happened yet but there’s nothing in our narrative setting which is canon shattering, it’s all 40K and all fits in with the current setting as described in the recent books.
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






40K certainly makes for an excellent RPG setting because only the barest of bones are absolutely set in stone.

Example. The Imperium as a political machine is unequivocally fascist, and horribly, ridiculously so. Yet, provided its constituent sectors, sub-sectors, systems, planets etc meet their allotted tithe, nobody really cares how you go about that.

I mean, certain methods (trading with Xenos, using Dark Age tech to Replicate etc) if found out will see you ded - but provided that tithe is forthcoming, the chances of anyone even questioning how are relatively slim.

That means it is entirely feasible for a given planetary Governor to be of a socialist or even full on communist bent. If that’s what gets results and the tithe met time and time again, it’s what works, run with it. Unlikely? Not really, no. Only really limited by the imagination of those taking part in the game.

And the type of planet can be anything. It’s tithe comprised of anything. Could be warriors, weapons, food stuffs, materials, minerals etc.

There’s even room for a given planet to produce stuff considered unique or archeotech if you want to - because The Administratum. Year on year, cycle on cycle, it’s exported to somewhere, and just sort of....forgotten about. Because of an Administratum error or oversight,

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





Kansas, United States

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
There’s even room for a given planet to produce stuff considered unique or archeotech if you want to - because The Administratum. Year on year, cycle on cycle, it’s exported to somewhere, and just sort of....forgotten about. Because of an Administratum error or oversight,


I absolutely love this aspect of the setting. Someone two sectors away forgets to carry the two, and your planet is forgotten, or they think there's an extra planet in your system and you have to pay the tithe for it, or whatever.

Death Guard - "The Rotmongers"
Chaos Space Marines - "The Sin-Eaters"
Dark Angels - "Nemeses Errant"
Deathwatch 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Tribune





Northumberland

As the grottiest of sniks has pointed out, this is without a doubt the best part of 40k. Space is so vast and the administration so corpulent that anything can and does happen. The lore has always been disputable because its all hearsay and only the barebones are true. That means you as the player can fit your own custom stuff in there and it's totally legit. I haven't read a lot of the recent stuff but when I first started out in 40k it was very much that your own stories had just as much merit as a BL writer. That's the point of writing fluff for your army. Canon in 40k can and does change a lot. Same as real life history, everything is written with a slant in mind. None of it is ever unbiased. It is very much dependent on different sources and different writers.

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Yup.

I’m always slightly saddened by people asking community permission/approval for stuff.

I mean, anything can happen in the Galaxy. Time Travel is real. Many Chapters recruit from Feral and Death Worlds, due to the benefits of artificially heightened evolutionary pressures being more likely to generate suitable candidates.

Sure, having full blood Eldar inducted into your Chapter is going to get a few funny looks. But converting your Bolters/Bolt Rifles to be Shuriken Catapults? Go for it - so long as it’s just an aesthetic swap.

Just go crazy, because the back is crazy, bonkers and completely pants on head hatstand.

The canon background (stuff in your Codex, rule book and novels) is but the merest fraction. The very slightest of scratches on the surface. The sort of slight scratch you might get on your hands, only really noticing them when you use hand sanitiser.

When it comes to The Imperium, not even The Imperium knows much about itself. Boil it down? Mars and Terra good. Emperor even gooderer. Muck about and the Astartes will stomp you. FFS get your tithe in on time. That’s about it.

Want a more sci-if looking Imperial Guard force? It’s entirely possible. Perhaps intended as a reserve force (which typically receive mothballed tanks and that), but due to quirk of Administratum shenanigans, they were issued with relic weapons, because the storage warehouses on Storage Planet Badger’s Arse were mid-labelled during the Great Crusade.

Only real caveat if scratch building or converting is of course Don’t Take The Piss. If you’re converting up Grav tanks as Leman Russ equivalents, just do your best to approximate the dimensions (no tiny ‘super duper one man tanks which are surprisingly small but have the firepower of a Baneblade and count as a Baneblade but it’s ok because I paid the right points’ stuff)

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
 
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