This thread reminds me....what edition was it that you didn't have to reveal wargear until it was used? Or was that Fantasy?
, you could walk into a unit with a character, find out the unit has flaming attacks, reveal you were prepared with a 2++ against flaming attacks. Mostly it was just a question of how many pts were spent on offence vs defence or the character is naked. Magic items were unbalanced so it was often somewhat predictable. Hidden Assassins and Fanatics were worse. You could suss them out by estimating whether your opponent had all their pts on the table. I think it's too clunky, lists should not have to be kept secret.
We had a local rule similar for our local WHFB
games to what I'm seeing here in general - that you had to have a print-off of your Army List to give to your opponent, the one caveat was that we didn't have to tell our opponent what unit an assassin or fanatics were in, but we DID have to tell a third party if we could, or we'd have to have a list that was printed off with the assassin listed with the unit it was with to show after the game to avoid shenanigans. As a Dark Elf player, I absolutely had assassins and even when an opponent knew that I had them on my list, they would still sometimes get careless about charges etc. As for magic items, I remember that pain. There were a handful that everyone, and I mean EVERYONE took. I also remember the complete an utter crap of buying a character model and never being allowed to use said character (also not having a character model that represented a character at all... Malekith on a chariot, I'm looking at you) unless your opponent was okay with it, which 9 times out of 10, they wouldn't be.I miss original WHFB
, but there are definitely some things I don't miss about it.
Speaking of dark elf assassins and our local rule (quick anecdote here), we actually had a game store owner who also played Dark Elves and never, not once, was honest about his assassin placements. He would pull this along with a few other underhanded tricks involving scouts and dark riders that were all gotchas. Pretty sure it's how he won 90% of the time. Everyone hated playing him. Yet he called me out on "cheating" when I would drop four bolt throwers on the table despite me having the ability to do so based on point values, but then his store didn't last very long since he was an ass to everyone. Seriously anyone like this (including a few posters I've seen so far) I would not play with again once I found out they played the game like that and I fully believe that the "git gud' argument on that side of the field is downright toxic and unwelcoming.
As to gotchas and the general topic at hand, if it's not obvious already, I DESPISE them. Feel bad moments in a GAME is not what I play for. Yes I know the dice may fail me, or I might make an honest to goodness mistake even with all of the info avialable. I can accept that. Being misinformed or not informed at all about a rule or something that twists or breaks a rule when I should have been? That's another thing entirely. It's why I quit playing games like MtG
. It may stem from the fact that I am an old school Battletech player where loadouts were openly known and you absolutely HAD to be open about what 'mech variant you were using in tournaments and there were no custom load-outs allowed for tournaments back then.
I will say that I appreciate that I am seeing a lot of people here that agree that gotchas are bad and are willing to remind and/or point out when they have something that would affect my strategy. And no, that doesn't mean you have to hold someone's hand. Telling me about something a unit has gear/relic/strategem-wise is not the same as telling me that I shouldn't move into an area because I would lose some movement over that (though if I move too far because I didn't know or forgot, do let me know so I don't end up cheating, please). Being a new 40k
player and a returning wargame player after about 12 years, it gives me hope that the 40k
community here locally may be of a similar mind (I hope) in terms of simple reminders about what a unit/character has. For WYSIWYG
, I don't believe in that per se. Some of us don't have oodles of money to throw around to get every possible variation of each unit let alone have the ability to field two or even three of every variation. I plan on magnetizing my army, but that only goes so far. Also custom models are a thing and they can't be accounted for by this as was mentioned by others.