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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






macluvin wrote:

Chaos does seem to lack female representation doesn’t it...
...
I was trying to explore whether or not the reason female space marines don’t exist is purely on a misogynist gender role expectation rather than science, and was advocating for considering the actual possibility. As well as the implications for what it means for the imperium.


In all likelyhood, the emperor took the largest and most aggressive humans he could find to create his army from. Statistically men tend to dominate those factors. Given that he then went on to try to make them even larger and more aggressive, it is not unreasonable to assume that his work would have the highest chance with males.

Outside the game, the people writing these games back in the day were often males, writing games that were mostly consumed by males, which is not specifically mysogny. Neither representation nor even culture were generally considerations for its genesis, that wasn't a thing back then. It was about "This is cool, this is fun, this will sell."

Now as to today. Meh. Make some female marines if you want, if someone says they have to be men, tell them they WERE men but are trans now or something, or don't. You don't have to explain or defend yourself.

On the other hand, if someone has enjoyed their game as it is, it shouldn't be considered a moral failing on their part to like it the way they have liked it. Nor is it a failing if GW decides not to alter their game that people have enjoyed for so long and has sold well for so long in ways they don't want to. It's kind of fashionable but I don't think it's fair to start a lot of name calling and impugning people's character over those things.

One could argue 40k is to abelist, but there's nothing to stop someone from modling their guard army with wheel chairs. But it shouldn't be a moral failing if GW doesn't produce wheelchair guard models either.

I'm a bit libertarian though so I'd like people to mostly do what they want and let others do the same.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/06 04:19:56


 
   
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Arcanis161 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:


If female Space Marines are created, then all the Sororitas have to offer are those faith powers and religious zealotry and iconography.
That's still more than what the Custodes offer and the Scions do though.


We'll have to agree to disagree here.
So we will. If we can't see how barebones the Custodes are on a design choice compared to the richness of the Sisters design, then it's simply not worth trying.
As far as I see it, the religious zealotry and iconography of the Sisters is equivalent to the gold, special weapons, Space Marines++, and bodyguard duty of the Custodes and the "Spec Ops" of the Scions.
But like, that's not all the Sisters are - which is my point about reductiveness.

Custodes: Gold, special DAOT tech, Space Marines ++, bodyguards.
Sisters: Religious zealots, unique iconography, faith powers, Space Marines --, specific limitation around the Holy Trinity of bolt/melta/flamer, the whole Repentia concept, etc.

Even removing the "women" part of their own specific unique identity doesn't change that, from a design perspective, they have so much more room to play with than Custodes, which apparently being painted gold is considered a key part of their identity.

and you think that's too similar, then I don't see how you can't also think that about Custodes and Astartes.


I kinda do though?
I genuinely can't understand how. In what earth is "gold, DAOT tech, and super duper elite" more iconic than "longstanding aesthetic design choices, religious fundamentalism, human statlines in power armour, and answerable to a cornerstone Imperial organisation"?

Let me put it this way: Space Marines, more than most other factions, are meant to be "your dudes", correct? Say female Space Marines are released tomorrow. You could say that your female Space Marines are similar to Black Templars, and model them with tons of religious iconography, correct? Well, now you have stronger Sisters of Battle, minus the faith powers.
In which case, Your Dude Space Marines could be coloured in gold, have lots of aquila and eagle imagery, and carry power glaives and halberds. Oh, and they fanatically guard the Emperor.

Don't really need those Custodes any more, do you?


In that instance, put them on Terra (or give the Imperial Fists Gold Armor, Dark-Age tech, and spears), then yeah, in my opinion, that kills the design space of the Custodes, making them irrelevant.
So simply putting some Space Marines on Terra is enough to invalidate the entire Custodes design space?

Look, I don't know how to tell you this, but that's already a thing. The Imperial Fists, at the very least, have a strong presence on and around Terra, and several other Chapters have garrisons present. The only thing unique to the Custodes on that regard is actually physically guarding the Palace, but that design space is getting smaller and smaller.
I will say though that if GW does something like this, I won't be happy.
They already did.

The very fact that you don't specify the gender of Space Marines or Custodes in your "selling points" of those factions tells me that you don't see their gender as essential to their identity
"Essential"? Questionable for sure, but it is currently a key part of their identity.
But essential enough that you made absolutely no mention of it as part of their core design philosophy? How so?
Plus, the fandom can't even decide if Space Marines are sexless inhuman killing machines or not - how on earth is that in support of their gender being a key part of their identity? The only lore they have that explains their "only-boys-allowed" we know is explicitly a retcon to justify how GW's actual women Astartes models sold awfully and didn't make any more. And so while that lore is currently a *part* of their identity - is it really a "key" part? I don't think so at all, and the relevance of them being an all-boys club needs to be reviewed and if that part of their identity really is "essential" any more.

I mean, in what way is it a key part, from a stylistic and design choice? If you're making 40k from the ground up, and having to justify every design choice you make, is Space Marines being all men something you can stylistically justify? Because I can't.

I would have thought this would have been a bit obvious given 40k descending from a largely male-viewpoint focused and oriented time period in popular media. I got bored enough in my college media classes so I won't bore you with further explanation of the history of 80's-90's media and GW's initial market.
I thought you were talking about "currently a key part" - but sure, if you want to bring up GW's initial market, you'd know that GW *did* make women Astartes. They were totally canon. They got canned because they were unpopular in the 80s.

I don't know if you know, but the 80s were 40 years ago. I think the market attitudes may have shifted since then.

- but you *do* for Sisters.


Key is in the name, Sisters of Battle, not Zealots of Battle or Clergy of Battle.
Yes, exactly. Gender *is* tied to the Sisters, but that doesn't make it exclusive to them. Space Marines aren't all the "Brothers of Space", or that them being "Space Marines" means they're the only force that can go into space.

Clearly, gender is more relevant to one than the other.
But, and here's the juicy thing - there are still men in the SoB codex!. Arcoflagellants, Priests, Crusaders, etc. The closest you'll get to a canon woman in the Astartes lineup is a Servitor.

Also, I feel that, because all current Space Marines are male, and that's part of what they are currently, Sisters of Battle being all female means that them being female is an essential part of who they are.
Sisters being all women doesn't preclude women existing elsewhere though. And, as you seem to think that being the same gender and in power armour is stepping on the same design toes - again, Custodes are also all men. Why don't you see that as stepping on the design toes of the Space Marines?

Surely the best solution here, to avoid such "stepping on design toes" shenanigans is for Sisters to be all women, Custodes to be all men (not sure why, but hey), and Space Marines being gender neutral. That way, they become even further differentiated on design.
Recall from when GW first made and released them, wasn't a part of their decision to make them to have women in power armor as a contrast to the Space Marines being (augmented) men in power armor?
Um, more like "remember when GW made women in power armour, but they sold badly, so they canned them and came back years later with SoB"?

I like the Sisters of Battle as they are now. I like that GW is releasing more models for them. I bought the Sisters box when it was announced specifically because they were so maligned and ignored for many years.
As do I. I don't want to change anything about SoB now, because as I've said, I feel their identity as a faction is strong enough that it won't be threatened if a Space Marine happens to be anything other than male-presenting.

I like that being "women in power armor" is an essential part of who the Sisters of Battle are.
I agree - but again, it's not exclusive to them, in the same way that I think bolt weapons are an essential part of what Sisters are, but are also essential to what Space Marines are.
As I said early in this thread, I think that them being regular "women in power armor" and also being the best un-augmented human soldiers in the galaxy is a very powerful feminist statement, far more so than "Space Marine Women" would be.
And this is the point where your logic eludes me. Just because there would be another group of power armoured soldiers who happen to be women, why on earth would that take away from what the Sisters are?

The only thing I get from you when you make that claim is that you are only viewing the Sisters through their gender, and ignoring everything else about them. It'd be like complaining if someone made a gold Chapter of Space Marines, because they stole the Custodes' special thing.

Sisters being women is an important part of their design concept, but should it be exclusive to them? No, not at all. Adding women in power armour elsewhere doesn't change that Sisters are awesome.

Seriously, Sisters, even without bringing their gender into it, are much more distinct from Astartes than Custodes are from Astartes.


As I said, we're going to have to agree to disagree here. If you leave aside gender, I feel what Sisters and Custodes each bring, while yes different from each other, are none the less equivalently different from Space Marines.
That's exactly what I said earlier.
Even removing gender from the equation, Sisters, Custodes and Space Marines are all at least equivalently distant from on another - so why on earth do you keep saying that Sisters would be the same as Astartes if Astartes could have women?
You literally just repeated my point to me.

Space Marines offer a large degree of customizability, decades of lore, and a rather large amount of model support. They are advertised as being the "heroes of the 41st millennium."
Exactly. I'd say that not being able to have female-presenting heads rather hampers that customisability.


...and? What makes this such a big issue? I'd compare not having robot, skeleton, or Tau heads also hampers customizability, but I don't think you'd appreciate that comparison.
I'm pretty sure that women are a tad more "in demand" and more likely to want to be a customisable feature than robots, skeletons, and Tau. I don't appreciate the comparison, because it's pretty ridiculous, as you well know.

And exactly as you say - offer customisability, much more lore and background material, and model support - Sisters don't. There's very clearly a niche there that Sisters don't occupy, so reducing Sisters to "the women in power armour" does both Astartes and Sororitas a disservice.


I'll answer this one with the next response. Though I will add here that, announced recently, were a Sisters version of a Predator, Sisters version of a Centurion, a Sisters version of a Lieutenant, and a Sisters version of Vanguard Veterans. I think these add a lot more similarity between the two.
And? Custodes literally use the same Land Raider and Contemptor model. Remind me, what is the armour those Allarus Custodians wear again? Oh yeah - Allarus Terminator armour.

Custodes don't have a leg to stand on here either.
Not the same thing as Space Marines at all then - so why would having female presenting Astartes step on any of those toes?


Because, in my opinion, faith powers and heavy religious iconography are not enough of a difference then.
Um, you literally said earlier that "If you leave aside gender, I feel what Sisters and Custodes each bring, while yes different from each other, are none the less equivalently different from Space Marines."

Let's assume female Space Marines are announced tomorrow. Let's list what both they and Sisters would bring to the table (ignoring fluff as my explanation above).

Female Space Marines would bring:
Augmented human
Female in Power Armor

Sisters of Battle currently bring:
Unaugmented human
Female in Power Armor
Faith Powers
Religious Iconography

So, religious iconography can be added to a kit of female Space Marines with enough hobby skills, so that could potentially scratch one difference right there.

Female Space Marines would be augmented, while Sisters would not be. So, that kinda makes Sisters worse? At least from a perspective of someone not familiar with lore/fluff of 40k?

What would be the significant difference that Sisters have that would appeal to new players or current players of other factions? Their Faith Powers? My answer on that below:
Sure, let's play that game with Custodes!
Custodes currently bring:
Super Duper Special Augmented human
Male in power armour
DaoT tech
Bodyguards
Gold??

Space Marines currently bring:
Augmented human
Male in power armour
(Dark Angels get DaoT tech)
(Imperial Fists known for garrisoning Terra)
(Quite a lot of gold coloured Chapters out there).

Hmm. Seems like the only truly unique feature is that Custodes have a different statline. Gee. So unique.

I mean, after all, all the same iconography is quite easily replicable with enough "hobby skills", but then, I suppose I can make any faction look stylistically similar with "hobby skills", so scratch that difference.

And, Custodes are super duper augmented, so I guess that just makes every other faction irrelevant, because we're apparently only capable of tying a faction's value in a design space to how big their muscles are?

I mean, what would be the significant difference that Custodes have without their monopoly on gold?
Recent trends? You mean the massive outpouring of love for Sisters, and the resurgence of women Astartes projects and conversions that came with the Primaris release? There's definitely an audience out there, and I don't think for a second that adding women Astartes would take away from the Sisters release.


You twisted my words. "Recent trends?" That should have been obviously in reference to Religion, Faith, and Religious Iconography in popular media, which, very muchly, has been on the downturn for a long while now. Take a look at recent media and show me something popular that has any of these as a main draw.

Not much eh?
Uh, Game of Thrones had a pretty major focus on the interplay between state and religion, and the utilisation of religion and faith within the politics of that setting.
Religion, faith, and religious iconography are almost certainly depicted in modern media - not in a favourable light, but they are presented.

So yeah, I don't see faith powers and religious iconography being enough of a draw to Sisters if Female Space Marines were to be released.
I have to disagree. Unless you think that people are only buying Sisters because they're women, one can only assume that people are getting them because they look super damn cool.

Yes, Sisters were massively popular upon release, and arguably still are popular. Some could be explained by new players seeing a new army release, but I suspect much of it was specifically because they had been so unfairly maligned and unsupported previously, despite still being a legitimate faction in the game. I know I bought mine because of that.
Or, you know, it's because they look really damn cool, instead of this "aw gee, I feel so bad for the Sisters not being a major faction until now, I'll buy some out of pity".

But, if a new player, unaware of the history of the production and support of the Sisters, were to also see Female Space Marines on the shelf, well, what are they going to go for? How many current Sisters players would stop buying Sisters if GW announced Female Space Marines tomorrow?
I don't know, if a new player, unaware of the history of the production and support of the Custodes were to see male Custodes next to male Space Marines, what are they going to go for?

Same argument, bud. And all I see to be hearing from you is how you only seem to view the Sisters through their lens as The Women's Army.

This may be something that we simply disagree on.
Evidently.

Overall I want to say this: I love the Sisters of Battle as they are.
Agreed.
My only issue is that I feel they cannot share the same design space
But adding female-presenting genetically enhanced supersoldiers wouldn't do that, any more so than them both carrying bolters does. This is the fundamental disagreement - you seem to believe that the Sisters identity is so fragile that "woman in power armour" is all they have going for them.
I prefer the Sisters as I feel an all female cadre of nuns being the best unaugmented human soldiers in the galaxy makes a more powerful feminist statement than women being augmented to be as strong/tough as augmented men.
It's not about a feminist statement of "being as strong as men". It's about "hey, why can't I have women (not weird aliens or skeletons or robots) in your flagship faction which is all about being a blank slate and custom creation?"

If the only argument for why that's the case is "because there's only room for one group of women in armour", firstly, I think that vastly undersells the design of the Sisters, and secondly, why doesn't that extend the same way to Custodes?



They/them

 
   
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 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Look, I don't know how to tell you this, but that's already a thing. The Imperial Fists, at the very least, have a strong presence on and around Terra, and several other Chapters have garrisons present. The only thing unique to the Custodes on that regard is actually physically guarding the Palace, but that design space is getting smaller and smaller.


The Imperial Fists are hilarious; "We are based on holy Terra, our armour is yellow like gold, and we defend The Emperor".....so bargain basement Custodes then?

From a modelling perspective I absolutely don't want to see boob armour and 'feminine' heads, and in the absensce of those what's the fething difference between male and female Space Marine minis. It's really a fluff issue, and shouldn't be a big deal.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/06 07:22:51


Kabal of the Mon-keigh's Paw
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Given the descriptions of the Marines throughout most of the lore, especially recently, I think the extent to which they're Post-Human is being overlooked.

They're recognisably humanoid, but their degree of musculature is unnatural, their facial features are described frequently as displaying "gigantism", their voices are supposedly noticeably deeper and more bass than even the few humans that approach them in size.

To me the main thing is that after all of the changes, alterations and enhancements a Marine goes through a female Marine would be almost completely indistinguishable from a male one.

Their growth would have been chemically and hormonally forced as would muscle development, any sexual development from adolescence would be completely halted. They might end up an inch or two shorted and a few pounds lighter. But the pre-pubescent human that gets turned into a marine is really just a convenient meat and bone foundation which humans create for free rather than trying to grow them in a lab.

Rik
   
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That's a good point. Overhwelming anyone's natural growth with tons of testosterone and goodness knows what else to drive size and aggression would probably masculinize the female to a degree far beyond current trans medicine transforms female features to masculine.
   
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 RegularGuy wrote:
That's a good point. Overhwelming anyone's natural growth with tons of testosterone and goodness knows what else to drive size and aggression would probably masculinize the female to a degree far beyond current trans medicine transforms female features to masculine.


I know, right?



[Thumb - 7AC8ECEB-E542-4DB2-8653-261E39E1E740.jpeg]

   
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In mother Russia, I don't even know anymore.
   
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 tauist wrote:
 RegularGuy wrote:
That's a good point. Overhwelming anyone's natural growth with tons of testosterone and goodness knows what else to drive size and aggression would probably masculinize the female to a degree far beyond current trans medicine transforms female features to masculine.


I know, right?





Yeah well, how about without the tons of makeup, and the obvious facial cosmetic surgery.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/07 15:17:32


Kabal of the Mon-keigh's Paw
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 tauist wrote:
Why doesn't female Space Marines exist? Simple really - The Emperor Of Mankind was not a heterosexual man. He probably also loved Tom Of Finland Artwork.


Definitely part of my headcanon, but more importantly, he was probably extremely gynophobic.
   
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Hecaton wrote:
 tauist wrote:
Why doesn't female Space Marines exist? Simple really - The Emperor Of Mankind was not a heterosexual man. He probably also loved Tom Of Finland Artwork.


Definitely part of my headcanon, but more importantly, he was probably extremely gynophobic.


For sure, the only lasses he allowed to be clad in his gold had to make wows of silence.. He also wanted them to creep the heck out of everyone else
   
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The Imperial Fists, ultimately Dorn, were charged with defending the Emperor’s Palace , which by extension meant terra. That’s not necessarily the same as the Custodes role to protect the Emperor.

For 10000 years they protected the Emperor over everything else to the point daemons walked on Terra fir the first time since the Siege.
   
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I personally would much prefer female custodes than female marines. It makes much more sense IMO- it’s a different process, and a more refined one, with none of the concessions to (relative) mass-production that were made with the Astartes.

See that stuff above? Completely true. All of it, every single word. Stands to reason. 
   
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 DalekCheese wrote:
I personally would much prefer female custodes than female marines. It makes much more sense IMO- it’s a different process, and a more refined one, with none of the concessions to (relative) mass-production that were made with the Astartes.


I believe those are called Sisters of Silence. They were designed to fight with and be part of the Custodes. Which is intense, as anyone whos able to train to be part of a Custodes melee unit must be of equal or close skill level.
   
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Well, with the addition of 5-6 female heads to one guard kit, we've got an addition to the storied pantheon of Factions Who Are Supposed To Be 50-50 Male-Female to keep track of.

Dark Eldar: 2/8 characters, half the torsos/heads in 5 kits (Scourges, Hellions, Wyches, Kabs, Reavers). Gold star for dark eldar!

Craftworld Eldar: Half the torsos/heads in 2 kits (Guardians, Windrider Bikes) and one all-girls unit with 1 character.

Tau: 1 character, like 3 heads in one kit. The first of the "Whoops, We Forgot And Made Them Accidentally All Dudes" factions.

Genestealer Cults: 1 character, like 3 heads in one kit (bikers), and one optional vehicle crewmember on the ridgerunner.

Imperial Guard: 5 heads in one kit

Adeptus Mechanicus: can't tell, too roboty. My personal head canon is the reason the skitarii units have 2 different types of crotch covering instead of 1 (seemingly more logical) is because slightly different lead shielding is required to protect the goobie bits just enough to allow them to still be extracted to make more skitarii, and that is the extent that the Adeptus Mechanicus cares about such frivolous human concerns.

Inquisition/imperial weirdos: 1 named character, 1 assassin. Jokaeros may all be female in which case gw has been peddling PORNOGRAPHIC SMUT since releasing their model - (WHFB Dwarf Voice) "that's a'cancelin'!"

Adeptus Custodes: "We Could've We Just Forgot."

Chaos Space Marines: "We Could've We Just Forgot." (monopose BSF chaos cultos have some ladies IIRC)

Necromunda: Van Saar and Delaques had 1/5 women from the get-go, Goliaths and Orlocks got Whoops We Forgot women in the expansion kits/FW. Escher got Whoops We Forgot men from FW.


Let's see, how are we stacking up to AOS?

Well, it looks like....GW just hasn't made it a whole thing with AOS and every faction is basically 50-50 by default unless their aesthetic is "all shirtless" like kairic acolytes and fireslayers and orks.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 RegularGuy wrote:
macluvin wrote:

Chaos does seem to lack female representation doesn’t it...
...
I was trying to explore whether or not the reason female space marines don’t exist is purely on a misogynist gender role expectation rather than science, and was advocating for considering the actual possibility. As well as the implications for what it means for the imperium.


In all likelyhood, the emperor took the largest and most aggressive humans he could find to create his army from. Statistically men tend to dominate those factors. Given that he then went on to try to make them even larger and more aggressive, it is not unreasonable to assume that his work would have the highest chance with males.

Outside the game, the people writing these games back in the day were often males, writing games that were mostly consumed by males, which is not specifically mysogny. Neither representation nor even culture were generally considerations for its genesis, that wasn't a thing back then. It was about "This is cool, this is fun, this will sell."

Now as to today. Meh. Make some female marines if you want, if someone says they have to be men, tell them they WERE men but are trans now or something, or don't. You don't have to explain or defend yourself.

On the other hand, if someone has enjoyed their game as it is, it shouldn't be considered a moral failing on their part to like it the way they have liked it. Nor is it a failing if GW decides not to alter their game that people have enjoyed for so long and has sold well for so long in ways they don't want to. It's kind of fashionable but I don't think it's fair to start a lot of name calling and impugning people's character over those things.


The thing people always fail to realize is that the companies that they like to complain about that are doing this aren't doing it to be 'fashionable' they're doing it because the overheads for a company making an entertainment property have ballooned to the point where you HAVE to make sure that the property has some way to appeal to every demographic if you want to make your money back.

If you want to aim a product at only a small fragment of the potential target audience, it needs to be cheap enough to make that it can sell only to that fragment and still make money. Two things have happened in recent years: products like mainstream films, mainstream TV and mainstream video games have gotten much, much, MUCH more expensive to create than they were two to three decades ago, and the particular segment of the population that almost everything used to be advertised to (basically....well...me) now has a whole lot less spending power, because mommy and daddy went from being in the baby boomer generation to being in the gen x/millennial generation, and what you're really targeting with kids' products is mommy and daddy's money.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/10 12:07:42


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

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 the_scotsman wrote:

Dark Eldar: 2/8 characters, half the torsos/heads in 5 kits (Scourges, Hellions, Wyches, Kabs, Reavers). Gold star for dark eldar!


You have uncovered the real reason why Drukhari are doing so well in the current edition

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Don't T'au use generic armour for everyone like AM do? So the only noticeable difference for a T'au model would be a bare head with its different head dent shape.
The Inquisition used to have a fairly good balance of models until they all got axed. But TBF you could use pretty much any Human scale model as an Inquisitor.
GSC I don't really know TBH. The less mutated ones sure could use a bit of a change but the more Genestealery you get the less human you look so it'd be hard to tell.
I think the original background for the Goliaths and Escher was they were exclusively one or the other because mutation. Males born into house Escher were usually frail and deformed because radiation but they seem to have gone for a more "creed rather than genes" deal now which I like.
As for the Admech, binary is for code, not gender, all are one in the machine.
   
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 Gert wrote:
Don't T'au use generic armour for everyone like AM do? So the only noticeable difference for a T'au model would be a bare head with its different head dent shape.

Correct, so their 50-50 representation is based solely on the (just checked) 2 female tau heads you get in the Fire Warriors box, and Shadowsun, the rest you just gotta go with 'they're wearing helmets' - which works a lot better than it does with Eldar as they don't have the sculpted-on chests and tight fitting bodysuits, and better than with Guard and GSC as they're mostly wearing full face helmets.

The Inquisition used to have a fairly good balance of models until they all got axed. But TBF you could use pretty much any Human scale model as an Inquisitor.

True, you just have to find a female human scale model without power armor on, in which case your options are....
....the special edition named commissar lady, or one of the female escher gangers. That'd be about it if you want GW. Oh, or one of the Rogue Trader sculpts.


GSC I don't really know TBH. The less mutated ones sure could use a bit of a change but the more Genestealery you get the less human you look so it'd be hard to tell.

Yeah, they're in the category of "Whoops, We Forgot". Wave 1 the Gen3/Gen4 sculpts were all male for no explored reason, there were female GSC present in the fluff of the codex. Though TBF I did forget there is also the new Magus sculpt which is a lady, so 2 out of about a dozen character sculpts.

I think the original background for the Goliaths and Escher was they were exclusively one or the other because mutation. Males born into house Escher were usually frail and deformed because radiation but they seem to have gone for a more "creed rather than genes" deal now which I like.

Yeah with Escher it makes sense there's only one male sculpt as theyre supposed to be rarer, and with goliath you can wave your hand and go 'once they get past Forgeborn they're so 'roided up you cant tell and they all turn into big gorilla-y Video Game Goons From Arkham Asylum

As for the Admech, binary is for code, not gender, all are one in the machine.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/05/10 15:42:10


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

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Don't GSC prefer they/them/theirs?
   
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What do you mean? A GSC just needs hosts for new generations of Stealers. It doesn't care what sex the person is because the cult mind control powers and genetic gribblies will solve any problems relating to not having kids i.e. behavioural changes towards spouses or an inclination to have loads of one-night-stands.
   
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I'm talking hive intelligence. Why are you trying so hard to be literal on your posts.
   
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You do know there is no way for me to know what inflection you're putting on a post right? I have no idea if you're serious or joking. Also, GSC aren't technically a hive mind. They all feel the psychic presence of the Patriarch, Magus and other Stealers but they all still have a large amount of free will.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/10 17:38:32


 
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Don't GSC prefer they/them/theirs?
The cultists likely use the same pronouns they always had, because the cultists still have their own identities, even if now slaved to the cult. If they do switch pronouns, it's likely going to be to "we/us", instead of any singular pronoun.



They/them

 
   
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Honestly I fairly certain that most tyranids are "female" in the same fashion that a worker ant is female. Though if GSC are using human biology as a model than it could be a reason why they don't use females as often, and thats because the vast majority of them are bringing the next generation of the Cult into being at any given time. To both add to the parent Hive Fleet's meal and too add to the psychic signal that draws them in. It also helps that the male part of reproduction is relatively quick compared to the gestational period, and therefore the male cultists are far more disposable.

Honestly 40k's fluff should center around how horrible it all is, and thats why I like the various stories where they show great effort only for it to prove to be not enough or the big damn heroes never show up. Like that one GSC story in the Word Bearer's anthology where the guy rescues this child from the Tyranids only for the narrator to inform us the kid was not blue with cold but with Genestealer infection. Things of that nature. Bring women and children into the scope of these stories but their should be an emphasis on how dehumanizing the setting is.


NOTE: I don't want female space marines because I don't particularly want to see any more space marine releases for a while, so that GW can bring the rest of the factions into this century. The endless deluge of Space Marines releases is honestly the most frustrating aspect of 40k to me personally, not what gender they are.
   
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I think our human brains cannot understand what or how they view sex/gender, and their brains don't care about our distinctions. It's entirely irrelevant to their purpose unless it provides an advantage to their goal. I will say in all the books I've read where GSC "implanted" a guard or IDF human, they were a mix of men, and women, so I think the intent was they don't care. It's all fodder and food to them.

This raises an interesting idea, is there canon Female orks? Do they have females, being sentient plants/fungus?
   
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There’s no femal orks in current canon 40k.

Though technically there’s no males orks either... they’re just referred to as male by convention.
   
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panzerfront14 wrote:

NOTE: I don't want female space marines because I don't particularly want to see any more space marine releases for a while, so that GW can bring the rest of the factions into this century. The endless deluge of Space Marines releases is honestly the most frustrating aspect of 40k to me personally, not what gender they are.


I actually am in agreement there... female space marines can wait until after every Xenos gets overhauled and for half of a brand new faction gets released like the skitaari...

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panzerfront14 wrote:

NOTE: I don't want female space marines because I don't particularly want to see any more space marine releases for a while, so that GW can bring the rest of the factions into this century. The endless deluge of Space Marines releases is honestly the most frustrating aspect of 40k to me personally, not what gender they are.


I don't get why this is a model issue, rather than just fluff.

Does anybody in favour of female Space Marines really want a sprue with boob armour, cartoon eyleshed helmets, and pouty-lipped heads?

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harlokin wrote:Does anybody in favour of female Space Marines really want a sprue with boob armour, cartoon eyleshed helmets, and pouty-lipped heads?
Not sure why you think any of those things are necessary for women Astartes. Bit weird, frankly.



They/them

 
   
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 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
harlokin wrote:Does anybody in favour of female Space Marines really want a sprue with boob armour, cartoon eyleshed helmets, and pouty-lipped heads?
Not sure why you think any of those things are necessary for women Astartes. Bit weird, frankly.


I don't really, and the last two are intentionally silly, but how does 'female' Space Marine in helmet look any different to 'male' Space Marine in helmet?

Kabal of the Mon-keigh's Paw
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Cult of Veiled Malice

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