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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It's not a fighty army, but there are some reasonably fighty things in it, mainly against elite or better targets. Helbrutes in particular look like some of the better combat value in the book, thanks to getting a free 5++ from the legion trait. A helbrute with a multi-melta and fist is 120 points (125 if you take the inferno storm bolter), shoots at 4x the range, and has one less attack than a maulerfiend. Plus it has core, so it gets reroll 1s to hit, may well be able to take advantage of its reroll 1s to wound rule as well, and doesn't degrade. It's also on a far more manageable base size. For 20 points less, 30 if you take tendrils. It does have 4 less wounds, and goes from S14 d3+3 to "just" S12 3D attacks, but it's reasonably rare that either of those ends up being super important, and the -1D largely offsets the 4 less wounds against a wide variety of common anti-tank. The core is a big deal, and makes them more attractive than maulers IMO, especially since the multimelta gives them a little bit of reasonably ranged anti-tank as well, something the book generally lacks.

On the other end of the spectrum, 5 spawn for 115 points can drown a surprisingly wide variety of targets in very points efficient attacks. 1CP and you're looking at an average 35 S5 AP2 2D attacks, or 25 at AP4 or AP2 rerolling wounds. The random attacks and the 4+ to hit makes them exceedingly unreliable, but nothing else in the book comes remotely close for damage per point.

But it's definitely not a melee book overall.

In general the book does well against elite armies that pay points for defense; the book is literally drowning in MWs, by far the most reliable way to remove invuln saves in the game, and generally highish AP sattacks. Where it struggles is at killing large volumes of cheap, low-wound, low-save models. There's really nothing in the book that's efficient at killing GEQ; some stuff is decent, but there's nothing that stands out the way that, say, wyches do.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/09 05:01:24


 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yup, I definitely think Hellbrutes are a hidden gem for Tsons. They add much needed melee capability and with 5++, and -1 damage, they are much tankier than other CSM hellbrutes.

Also, the shooting of a Tsons army is not to be underestimated. In my initial list with 4 squads of rubrics and 3 squads of 5 terminators, 2 lascannon hellbrutes and 2 defilers. Thats 8 lascannon shots, 2d6 battle cannon shots, 6 hellfire missiles racks shots for long range anti armor, plus a ton of up to 80 inferno bolt shots.

And this is on top of the 18 to 20 MW we can throw out each turn in psychic bullets.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2021/08/09 05:06:07


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

When it comes to Hellfyre racks, do people put them on a different model to the one with the heavy weapon, or the same weapon?

I've always taken an 'eggs in one basket' approach to Terminators - the more 'ablative wounds' for the main guns/HTH threats, the better, so for instance the Reaper AC or Assault Cannon guy would also get the Chainfist - but I wonder what other people do?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/09 05:10:26


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





yukishiro1 wrote:
It's not a fighty army, ...

But it's definitely not a melee book overall.

In general the book does well against elite armies that pay points for defense; the book is literally drowning in MWs, by far the most reliable way to remove invuln saves in the game, and generally highish AP sattacks. Where it struggles is at killing large volumes of cheap, low-wound, low-save models. There's really nothing in the book that's efficient at killing GEQ; some stuff is decent, but there's nothing that stands out the way that, say, wyches do.
.

I think inferno bolts are the perfect weapon for mowing down GEQ actually. The AP 2 removes GEQ saves and if we pack enough rubrics and temrinators, a TSons army can pump out a horrendous number of inferno bolt shots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
When it comes to Hellfyre racks, do people put them on a different model to the one with the heavy weapon, or the same weapon?

I've always taken an 'eggs in one basket' approach to Terminators - the more 'ablative wounds' for the main guns/HTH threats, the better, so for instance the Reaper AC or Assault Cannon guy would also get the Chainfist - but I wonder what other people do?



Same as you. The more abalative wounds, the better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/09 05:12:46


 
   
Made in us
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Anyone else notice the strat that doubles the shots for a soulreaper cannon against 11+ models? I think that will be helpful against hoards as my list has like 4 soulreapers in it so probably will be able to use 3 turns or so. Also there is a relic staff that doubles CC attacks. Can be put in a SoT sorcerer to get 8 attacks I believe which could help against hoards.

What cults are people leaning towards? I really can’t decide which I like best.
   
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1CP for another 6 soulreaper shots isn't great value. It only really makes sense on a 10 block of termies that have two; 12 shots for 1CP is pretty good. I'm really not sure about that unit though, I think TSons is going to be straight MSU now, given how much more you get from an aspiring sorc than from a normal dude, especially on Scarabs where you aren't even giving up a gun. Hard for me to see the case for running a block of 10 vs two 5-man squads that get twice the psychic ability in addition to all the other advantages of being under 6.

Inferno bolters themselves are great at killing GEQ in theory, but the models they are mounted on are all super inefficient offensively. Rubrics are downright terrible at killing stuff for their points, and scarabs are only slightly better.
   
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 xeen wrote:
Anyone else notice the strat that doubles the shots for a soulreaper cannon against 11+ models? I think that will be helpful against hoards as my list has like 4 soulreapers in it so probably will be able to use 3 turns or so. Also there is a relic staff that doubles CC attacks. Can be put in a SoT sorcerer to get 8 attacks I believe which could help against hoards.

What cults are people leaning towards? I really can’t decide which I like best.


I don't have the codex yet, so I can't say. All I have to go on is the goonhammer review and what I observe from watching the youtube battle reports. In any case, no matter how good a psychic power sounds, bare in mind you can only cast it once a turn. And also from the way I see it, its better to go with MSU units rather one big bloc because that makes the defensive stategems cheaper (1 CP as compared to 3 CP).

I think Cult of Time is good for me personally. Its hard to kill off an entire squad of rubrics or terminators because they are immune to morale unless you go for overkill. Once battle starts and is joined, there should be squads down one or more models somewhere on the battlefield, so the ability for any one of these squads to cast time flux each turn at WC 5 and bring back one destroyed model adds up to 4 or more models over the whole game. That adds up to one entire squad right there already over the course of the whole game.

Plus it may help to keep our characters alive. Maybe the squad is down to 2 models now, so it can't provide look out sir. But cast time flux and bring back one model and suddenly, now it can.

(I am reading this off rituals of the damned. Not sure if time flux has changed or not). Time flux is now more powerful because you are either bringing back a 2W rubric marine or a 3W terminator.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
yukishiro1 wrote:
1CP for another 6 soulreaper shots isn't great value. It only really makes sense on a 10 block of termies that have two; 12 shots for 1CP is pretty good. I'm really not sure about that unit though, I think TSons is going to be straight MSU now, given how much more you get from an aspiring sorc than from a normal dude, especially on Scarabs where you aren't even giving up a gun. Hard for me to see the case for running a block of 10 vs two 5-man squads that get twice the psychic ability in addition to all the other advantages of being under 6.

Inferno bolters themselves are great at killing GEQ in theory, but the models they are mounted on are all super inefficient offensively. Rubrics are downright terrible at killing stuff for their points, and scarabs are only slightly better.


True, but its not like imperial guard are that good at fighting anyway. As we already observed, Most TSons units are not that great at melee. We are active during the psychic and shooting phase. Much less so during the combat phase. Which melee GEQ horde army exactly are you thinking of when it comes to a horde? Daemons ? Tyranids ? Orcs ?

Actually, can you elaborate on why rubrics are bad offensively for their points? I don't quite understand that statement. From what I understand, a squad of 5 rubrics can now bring a soul reaper cannon. So, thats 4 models with inferno bolt shots and one soul reaper cannon with 5 shots. Plus the champion can hurl out a smite during the psychic phase.

So, thats a fair number of inferno bolt shots plus 5 soul reaper cannon shots plus a smite. That sounds pretty good to me actually.

This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2021/08/09 06:06:59


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block



So Cal

I really feel like TS are gonna be great. Some matchups are gonna be really good and for now I'm ignoring the meta boogeymen as those tend to get toned down over time. Elite armies are really gonna have a rough time vs the mortals, DG, Custodes, SM etc.. A fair chunk of the armies. We aren't without our tougher matchups like sisters, likely orks and the boogeymen (for now).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/09 06:10:09


 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah, they aren't stupidly OP broken like the current boogeyman right now. But I think they will be very good in the hands of a good player. Its just as well they aren't obviously, stupidly broken because then nobody will cry nerf. They are something which Chaos lists really needed.

Pure Tsons is good and fluffy, don't get me wrong. But a mixed chaos list with a Tsons detachment is also pretty good. You lose cabalistic rituals, but you still retain the +1 to cast on all the Tson psykers and everything else.

Remember how we are saying it takes some effort to make a big bloc of Scarab occult terminators as resilient as DG ? If you run a DG detachment and a Tsons detachment, you can simply have a big bloc of DG blightlords in the center where you can park all of your Tsons castors, plus a Foul Blightspawn. Now you suddenly have that big core of resilient, hard to kill center that can give look out sir to all of your psykers, plus nobody in their right mind wants to charge a block of 10 blightlords with a foul blightspawn giving them fight last. Especially if they will get smite to death the following turn even if they survive the charge.

Is it worth giving up cabalistic rituals? who knows.

I don't have the codex yet, but the idea of trying out a mixed chaos list of DG and TSons is appealing too. A big block of 10 blightlords with all the characters behind them to bully the center, while 3 squads of Occult terminators move up and provide additional firepower plus psychic as well ... That's 25 terminators for an opponent to chew through. lol

It has a lot more ranged firepower than a typical DG list, while still being pretty resilient.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/09 06:32:33


 
   
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Cabalistic Rituals are pretty good but I'm honestly more worried about giving up the secondaries for souping; Mutate Landscape and Wrath of Magnus are both gonna be really good in a lot of matchups.
   
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Been Around the Block



So Cal

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Yeah, they aren't stupidly OP broken like the current boogeyman right now. But I think they will be very good in the hands of a good player. Its just as well they aren't obviously, stupidly broken because then nobody will cry nerf. They are something which Chaos lists really needed.

Pure Tsons is good and fluffy, don't get me wrong. But a mixed chaos list with a Tsons detachment is also pretty good. You lose cabalistic rituals, but you still retain the +1 to cast on all the Tson psykers and everything else.

Remember how we are saying it takes some effort to make a big bloc of Scarab occult terminators as resilient as DG ? If you run a DG detachment and a Tsons detachment, you can simply have a big bloc of DG blightlords in the center where you can park all of your Tsons castors, plus a Foul Blightspawn. Now you suddenly have that big core of resilient, hard to kill center that can give look out sir to all of your psykers, plus nobody in their right mind wants to charge a block of 10 blightlords with a foul blightspawn giving them fight last. Especially if they will get smite to death the following turn even if they survive the charge.

Is it worth giving up cabalistic rituals? who knows.

I don't have the codex yet, but the idea of trying out a mixed chaos list of DG and TSons is appealing too. A big block of 10 blightlords with all the characters behind them to bully the center, while 3 squads of Occult terminators move up and provide additional firepower plus psychic as well ... That's 25 terminators for an opponent to chew through. lol

It has a lot more ranged firepower than a typical DG list, while still being pretty resilient.


As more and more chaos books come out the power of soup becomes greater, this might just be the start of the new soup era. I do agree that it depends on how important cabalistic ritual becomes. My gut says super important as we've all failed that important psychic test during a pivotal moment, but this is all theory hammer.

Actually the more I think about this and watch some battle reports I feel like GK and TS are gonna really shake things up. They aren't OP by any means but the amount of mortal wounds are really gonna punish armies and push elite infantry down.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/09 06:51:35


 
   
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Eldenfirefly wrote:


Actually, can you elaborate on why rubrics are bad offensively for their points? I don't quite understand that statement. From what I understand, a squad of 5 rubrics can now bring a soul reaper cannon. So, thats 4 models with inferno bolt shots and one soul reaper cannon with 5 shots. Plus the champion can hurl out a smite during the psychic phase.

So, thats a fair number of inferno bolt shots plus 5 soul reaper cannon shots plus a smite. That sounds pretty good to me actually.



5 Rubrics with a cannon is 115 points. For that, you get 3 inferno bolters and the cannon - the sorc only has a pistol. So in the very best case scenario (w/in 12"), that's 7 S4 AP-2 1D shots and 5 S6 AP-3 1D shots, and potentially up to 8 S4 AP 0 and 3 S7 AP-1 d3 damage melee attacks. It's not absolutely terrible, thanks to the cannon's ranged output and the sorc's melee output, but it's very anemic for 115 points. There are many units in the game that will put out easily double the damage per point as rubrics, maybe even triple for premium melee units - which makes sense, since rubrics are paying a lot for their defensive profile and their psyker. I'm not saying they're a bad unit, they're not in the new book, but their offense is extremely mediocre for their cost.

edit: Oh, cannon's only 5 shots, not 6, which makes it even worse.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/09 06:57:14


 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





yukishiro1 wrote:


5 Rubrics with a cannon is 115 points. For that, you get 3 inferno bolters and the cannon - the sorc only has a pistol. So in the very best case scenario (w/in 12"), that's 7 S4 AP-2 1D shots and 5 S6 AP-3 1D shots, and potentially up to 8 S4 AP 0 and 3 S7 AP-1 d3 damage melee attacks. It's not absolutely terrible, thanks to the cannon's ranged output and the sorc's melee output, but it's very anemic for 115 points. There are many units in the game that will put out easily double the damage per point as rubrics, maybe even triple for premium melee units - which makes sense, since rubrics are paying a lot for their defensive profile and their psyker. I'm not saying they're a bad unit, they're not in the new book, but their offense is extremely mediocre for their cost.

edit: Oh, cannon's only 5 shots, not 6, which makes it even worse.


This raises an interesting point. If rubrics dmg output are mediocre, then what's the use of having the best Rhinos in the game if there is nothing worthwhile for them to transport? Tsons have no posssessed, and no worthwhile infantry that can ride in a 5++ Rhino. I suppose we can just go for a cheap 10 tzaangors in a Rhino and hope to win by sheer numbers on an objective.

How about if we use a warp flamer loadout on a 5 man Rubric squad ? Does that make them better in a Rhino? each warpflamer is d6 autohit shots right? Can the champion take a warpflamer? 5d6 autohit shots at AP 2 sounds good. How much does it cost to swap an inferno bolter for a warp flamer in the new codex ?

(Looking at the old Tsons codex, the Aspiring Sorceror can replace his inferno pistol with a warpflame pistol. ) Also d6 shots, but at strength 3, but also AP2. So, yeah, 5d6 AP 2 flamer shots are doable. It depends on whether its worthwhile trying this since our Rhinos are now more resilient. Flamers are a pretty good deterrent to being charged as well. Eating that many AP 2 warpflame shots in overwatch is going to hurt !!! lol

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/09 07:25:29


 
   
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 Arachnofiend wrote:
Had an idea for a good way to use a Loyal Thrall Sorcerer: if you run Cult of Duplicity you can warp onto empty objectives and immediately score Mutate Landscape. Duplicity should be fun for scoring in general, you can use it for punishing unprotected Banners too.


Take it up to 11 by giving him the 3d6 action warlord trait and see gem free even more mobility when you can't afford to cast (or to bring a squad along for the ride)

Effective? Debatable
Infuriating? Most definitely

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 BoomWolf wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
Had an idea for a good way to use a Loyal Thrall Sorcerer: if you run Cult of Duplicity you can warp onto empty objectives and immediately score Mutate Landscape. Duplicity should be fun for scoring in general, you can use it for punishing unprotected Banners too.


Take it up to 11 by giving him the 3d6 action warlord trait and see gem free even more mobility when you can't afford to cast (or to bring a squad along for the ride)

Effective? Debatable
Infuriating? Most definitely


Sounds fun! Of course, bear in mind that thrall sorceror will be alone and snipable after that. Do you want to throw away a 100 points sorceror just for that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The more I think about what Tzaangors benefit from being in a Rhino, the more I am liking that idea.

Turn 1, Tzaangor raise banners on a back objective, the Rhino blocks line of sight to them and present itself as a cheap T7 10W block of 5++ that is empty. Plus the Rhino gets to shoot its inferno combi rounds.

Turn 2, Tzangoors get onto the Rhino and it move advance up the board onto a midfield objective. So, two turns of shooting plus psychic to thin out the center.

Turn 3, pile out and charge something after it has been softened up. Or get out of the Rhino onto a midfield objective cleared of the enemy and raise more banners.

Kill the Rhino, and 10 cheap Tzaangors with T4 and 5++ pile out of the Rhino onto the objective anyway.

Kill the Tzaangors in melee, and now you get charged by the Occult terminators coming up behind them.

Don't kill them, next turn, they pile into the Rhino and make the next leap forward to the enemy deployment zone objective. While the obsec occult terminators coming up behind them now take over the midfield objective they just vacated.

A Rhino with 10 Tzaangors in it is cheap, a pain to the butt to kill, and yet if you ignore it to go for other stuff in a Tsons army, it can take over objectives, perform actions, and rack up a ton of VP.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/08/09 08:27:59


 
   
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Too bad a rhino cant carry tzaangors, rendering the whole idea moot.

And the "alone and afraid" problem is why I suggested bringing a squad along with the gem.
Though at some cases, you could just hide him well enough for it to work.

Throwing a 100 point sorcerer is bad, spending a 100 points for a decent chunk of VP after using it earlier in the game to cast spells-possible tech.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 BoomWolf wrote:
Too bad a rhino cant carry tzaangors, rendering the whole idea moot.

And the "alone and afraid" problem is why I suggested bringing a squad along with the gem.
Though at some cases, you could just hide him well enough for it to work.

Throwing a 100 point sorcerer is bad, spending a 100 points for a decent chunk of VP after using it earlier in the game to cast spells-possible tech.


what... a Rhino can't carry Tzaangors? how come? @@ In the old codex, the Rhino can carry 10 Tsons infantry models, and Tzaangors have the infantry keyword... Did they change it in the new codex ? @@

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/09 08:35:11


 
   
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Australia

What do folks think is the best relic to throw on a Cult of Magic "pew pew" caster (presumably an Exalted Sorcerer), assuming he has Devastating Sorcery as his WL trait?

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Eldenfirefly wrote:
 BoomWolf wrote:
Too bad a rhino cant carry tzaangors, rendering the whole idea moot.

And the "alone and afraid" problem is why I suggested bringing a squad along with the gem.
Though at some cases, you could just hide him well enough for it to work.

Throwing a 100 point sorcerer is bad, spending a 100 points for a decent chunk of VP after using it earlier in the game to cast spells-possible tech.


what... a Rhino can't carry Tzaangors? how come? @@ In the old codex, the Rhino can carry 10 Tsons infantry models, and Tzaangors have the infantry keyword... Did they change it in the new codex ? @@


It can carry 10 Arcana Astardes Infantry, and goats are not such. niether are cultists.
Also forbidden from termies.

So basically, rubrics and sorcerers.


 Marshal Loss wrote:
What do folks think is the best relic to throw on a Cult of Magic "pew pew" caster (presumably an Exalted Sorcerer), assuming he has Devastating Sorcery as his WL trait?


Athenean scrolls maybe to get an easy supercast on smites?
And obviously you'd use a base sorcerer with with warrior, not an exalted.

Its basically a meme, but in small games the sheer MW output would be stunning.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/09 08:38:59


can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
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Zzzzz... Our Rhinos can only carry rubrics and sorcerors? That sounds so restrictive... :(

Rubrics in a Rhino sounds like a gamble. If it blows up and you roll a few 1s... that's a few rubrics just gone. Rubrics are too expensive to risk that happening. I would rather use the gem or other means if I want to get rubrics closer...

Its such a pity because our Rhinos are one of the best in the game, with a 5++ save and being able to carry double inferno combi bolters for quite a cheap cost.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/08/09 08:51:29


 
   
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Ocularis Terribus

A question about the healing effect of 'Warped regeneration' 'Aetheric saturation' and 'Temporal manipulation' : They all have the condition that says each model can only be healed once per turn. Does this mean that, for example, I can't heal Magnus with both the 'Warped regeneration' stratagems and 'Temporal manipulation' psychic power in the same turn?
   
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Australia

 BoomWolf wrote:
 Marshal Loss wrote:
What do folks think is the best relic to throw on a Cult of Magic "pew pew" caster (presumably an Exalted Sorcerer), assuming he has Devastating Sorcery as his WL trait?


Athenean scrolls maybe to get an easy supercast on smites?
And obviously you'd use a base sorcerer with with warrior, not an exalted.

Its basically a meme, but in small games the sheer MW output would be stunning.


Thanks for the tips! Had missed the WW interaction, and I'm only looking to put together a force for small games, so this sounds like fun

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Made in fr
Spawn of Chaos





 BoomWolf wrote:

It can carry 10 Arcana Astardes Infantry, and goats are not such. niether are cultists.
Also forbidden from termies.

So basically, rubrics and sorcerers.


What ? That's silly. Both in fluff and balance. Especially for the birds and the cultists.

-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
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Hmmm.. I am struggling to understand why we should be bringing more than the minimum number of characters required even though they let us bring more thrall sorcerers for each exalted sorcerer.

A sorcerer has 2 casts, but has 5W. 3 attacks, 3+, 5++ save and 1 deny.

For a bit more points, I can get a rubric squad that will have an aspiring sorcerer, The whole squad will now have 1 cast, 1 deny, 10W, 10 attacks, 3+ plus all is dust, and also far more shooting than a sorceer's single inferno pistol. And the whole unit is obsec, immune to morale.

Why would I ever want to add another sorcerer instead of just taking an additional rubric squad? Is it worth that one extra cast? Especially since all the aspiring sorcerers also have +1 to cast, and has access to both vengence and change disciplines.

It just doesn't compute. Once I start seeing rubric squads as a 10W sorcerer with one cast that is also obsec... suddenly they look pretty good... lol

The only reason to have exalted sorcerer is because we have to have two HQ. Plus we can give them warlord traits and relics to really power up their casting so that they can potentially throw out super smites. In which case, one or two such psykers characters is enough. Not sure if we have enough such relics and warlord traits to power up three characters.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/09 11:37:56


 
   
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 xeen wrote:
Anyone else notice the strat that doubles the shots for a soulreaper cannon against 11+ models? I think that will be helpful against hoards as my list has like 4 soulreapers in it so probably will be able to use 3 turns or so. Also there is a relic staff that doubles CC attacks. Can be put in a SoT sorcerer to get 8 attacks I believe which could help against hoards.

What cults are people leaning towards? I really can’t decide which I like best.


its nice, but is there any way to get 2 soulreapers in 1 squad? is it just 'run 10 termiantors as a block' to do that?

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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 Derp Angels Librarian wrote:
A question about the healing effect of 'Warped regeneration' 'Aetheric saturation' and 'Temporal manipulation' : They all have the condition that says each model can only be healed once per turn. Does this mean that, for example, I can't heal Magnus with both the 'Warped regeneration' stratagems and 'Temporal manipulation' psychic power in the same turn?


That occurred to me as well. I think the answer is yes, but they could have been clearer in the wording that "healed" is now a general attribute that each of these different effects all apply. Even just capitalizing Healed would have made it clearer it's now a status you have or you don't have.
   
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Wow Admec and Dark Eldar Strats must really have broken the expectations of Strats if 1CP for 5 additional S6 -3ap shots against hoards (many of whom would be wounded on 2's) is considered bad. I mean, yea it is not double shoot or even remotely comparable to Admech non-sense, but I would not call this bad.

That sucks about Tgors in a Rhino, and basically eliminates any real use for either units at this point. I will probably just use a min Tgor unit for back field objective, but that's it, and I am even thinking of just removing them completely.

   
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 the_scotsman wrote:
 xeen wrote:
Anyone else notice the strat that doubles the shots for a soulreaper cannon against 11+ models? I think that will be helpful against hoards as my list has like 4 soulreapers in it so probably will be able to use 3 turns or so. Also there is a relic staff that doubles CC attacks. Can be put in a SoT sorcerer to get 8 attacks I believe which could help against hoards.

What cults are people leaning towards? I really can’t decide which I like best.


its nice, but is there any way to get 2 soulreapers in 1 squad? is it just 'run 10 termiantors as a block' to do that?


Yeah, 10 termies is the only way to get 2 soulreapers, which I don't think is a good idea given how that causes the best defensive strat to jump from 1CP for 5 to 3CP for 6-10.

They're really pushing MSU super hard in this book, very hard for me to see why you'd ever take above a strictly min size squad of literally anything in this book except spawn. 30 cultists to give them a 4++ and sit somewhere is probably the best way to take cultists if you're going to, but it's still terrible.
   
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

They've been pushing MSU super-hard ever since they defined a "horde" as anything with 6 or more models.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




 xeen wrote:
Wow Admec and Dark Eldar Strats must really have broken the expectations of Strats if 1CP for 5 additional S6 -3ap shots against hoards (many of whom would be wounded on 2's) is considered bad. I mean, yea it is not double shoot or even remotely comparable to Admech non-sense, but I would not call this bad.


The "average" conversion rate for a strat is 1CP for 2 MW if the conditions are met. 5 shots at S6 AP3 1D is about that on average in that it averages in ~2 more wounds inflicted against your likely target profile, but the condition is against a horde, i.e. something that's going to be very cheap. 1CP to kill 10-20 points of models is not a great conversion rate. I can see there might be times when it makes sense to use it on a single cannon, but it's very much in the "this exists, but if you completely forgot about it for your entire 40k career, it really wouldn't matter" category of strats.
   
 
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