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Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Also played two games. Bloodthirster tank is unkillable with blood drinker talisman, brazen hide, indomitable onslaught. Bloodletters deepstriking within 6" of belakor is great. Belakor isnt as tough as you think he is. He died battleround 3/4, but also soaked up many, many attacks which would have gone somewhere else.
Not convinced by lord of change, its a lot of points for three psychic powers. The tzeentch discipline powers are quite weak. Flamers are more than broken, they are OP³. 6 models will pretty much kill anything. I am 100% sure competitive lists will run 18 of them. Just make sure you kill what you shoot at, and you cant be charged. They die fast in melee, and cant shoot anymore because they dont have pistols anymore. Troop choices are overpriced, except for bloodletters. Blue horrors not having obsec is ridiculous.
   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

Yes I'm really not sure what they were thinking with flamers -they are fast, survivable and put out stupidly good firepower for not many points?

Either they had an awful lot of models they wanted to shift or they are just really bad at their jobs and have no clue about unit balance - I don't know which is worse!

I fully expect a 10pt point increase and I still think they will be perfectly playable after that which shows what a problem they are.

The problem is that if they increase the points so dramatically on our best unit then they had better drop some points elsewhere!

I find screamers really overcosted, similar with bloodcrushers and beasts. Most of the troops could do with being a point or maybe two less as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/12 08:15:27


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Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Screamer are pathetic, i already forgot them.
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





For those that played some games with the new codex this weekend, first off, sounds like things worked well, congrats. Secondly, how much stuff did you keep off table to start the game and what was your rationale/approach to bringing it on table or keeping it off table?

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
For those that played some games with the new codex this weekend, first off, sounds like things worked well, congrats. Secondly, how much stuff did you keep off table to start the game and what was your rationale/approach to bringing it on table or keeping it off table?


2 bloodthirsters and 2 bloodletters(so pretty much max i could. 1 unit and 1 pl more could be). . Bloodletters are there more likely where needed(and won't get gunned down by inceptors/aggressors) and bloodthirsters are safe from meltas. And again get where needed. With 8" charges and skarbrand warp locus felt safe enough

(and getting easy charges isn't easier automatically if opponent plays cagey and shoot at me meanwhile waiting army bonus trigger t3)

I was also less drops even without reserves so if i put thirster somewhere he can put ideal counter around there and prime targets elsewhere.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/09/12 14:39:05


2022 painted/bought: 681/867 
   
Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior




Played a bit over the last week and my results have been radically different from other posters, but I primarily play Nurgle and it seems the other two who have posted play Khorne which definitely seems to be the winner in this codex.

Nurgle is just sad, they are not good at anything. I can see that the intent was for them to have multiple ways to deny ObSec and play with morale but even when I played heavily into those strengths it just never panned out. Being able to remove an opponents ObSec doesn't mean jack all when I can't get bodies onto objectives.

Unit by unit break down as I have played every option for Nurgle;

HQ:

Belakor is just an absolute beast. His most relevant combat stats don't degrade as he takes damage, he has a ton of defensive buffs in Shadow Form, he gives himself and all other daemons reroll 1 tohit and Lord of Torment stacking with the general Daemonic rule is really nice. Even if your opponent ignores combat attrition modifiers, AKA Space Marines, you still give everything in 6" -2 LD which makes it so much easier to take off another model at least. His psychic abilities are a bit meh so I guess that is the one bad thing I can say.

GUO are just terrible. Absolutely garbage units that I am not even sure I would bring to the table again. Yes, I can make a GUO that can tank my opponents entire army worth of shooting. T10 24W -1D that regenerates wounds equal to the round number is just a big sack of distraction carnifex. The problem is that they are slow, they don't hit very hard when they get there and all of their best melee abilities degrade as they go. I never once felt like I benefited from having these guys.

The herald level models are all pretty much the same so there isn't much to say other than the fact that the Poxbringer is the best, Scrivener is second best and the Bilepiper is just terribad. Poxbringer can make your Plaguebearers pretty damn scary when they are hitting at damage 3 is nasty....kinda. The problem is that you are relying on Plaguebearers to get across the table and with almost everything having AoC -2 AP doesn't cut it.

Epidemius isn't worth it. I honestly never felt like I didn't have enough WS points for what I wanted to do or at the very least never felt like 1 more was going to make a difference.

Hoticulus Slimux was actually a pretty good unit. Beast Handler being a 9" buff is nice because I think it is best used on Plague Drones and he hits decently hard in melee. His ability to screw with area terrain is a nice little bonus to an already solid platform so I was happy with the whole package.

Troops:

Nurglings, just why? I don't care about ObSec, that can be worked around in numerous ways with Nurgle. Not taking up the troop role makes them just so unappealing. The only reason to take them is for the troop tax but since they don't count as troops why bother? Yes they can grab objectives early on in the game but you are spending a lot of points for a unit that will lose the objective to anything with ObSec in the first turn and they give your opponent a unit in charge range to slingshot into melee sooner.

Plaguebearers are just alright. They are not as resilient as I would want, even with buffs, they are slow and they don't hit that hard except when buffed up by a Poxbringer. The issue is that they are limited to 10 man squads so even with all of those buffs you are looking at about 21 attacks at full strength hitting on fours, threes with a Scriviner. T5 2W 4+ is a decently resilient state line but not enough that my opponents couldn't take them out with little trouble. The regenerative abilities you can use to bring them back are a waste of time in my experience; if your opponent knows you have those abilities all they need to do is focus each squad down just like Necrons.

Elites:

Beast of Nurgle are too expensive. Not much else to say, don't mind having one or two as back field objective holders but generally I didn't care much for them.

Fast Attack:

Plague Drones are actually my one darling unit that I love. They are Plaguebearer Core so they can benefit from all of the buffs from the heralds. Taken in squads of 5 you can use Revolting Constitution on them for 1CP and due to them being T6 5W 4+ at range they require some anti-tank firepower to put down and giving them transhuman actually makes sense. They don't hit that hard but nothing in the army really does, so I don't knock em for that.

Heavy:

Soul Grinder rocks. Soul Grinder is life. Take more Soul Grinders.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/12 15:30:44


 
   
Made in es
Dakka Veteran




As allies to Black Legion CSM would a Khorne DP and 10 bloodletters be usefull?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/12 19:34:39


 
   
Made in gb
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




It depends if you can't find a better use within CSM for the 2 CP for the patrol and 1 CP for a relic on the Khorne DP.
   
Made in es
Dakka Veteran




Good point 3Cps seems a big tax for BL in nephilim.
   
Made in gb
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh





Has anyone played Mono slaanesh yet and how did it playout for you ?
   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Played a bit over the last week and my results have been radically different from other posters, but I primarily play Nurgle and it seems the other two who have posted play Khorne which definitely seems to be the winner in this codex.

Nurgle is just sad, they are not good at anything. I can see that the intent was for them to have multiple ways to deny ObSec and play with morale but even when I played heavily into those strengths it just never panned out. Being able to remove an opponents ObSec doesn't mean jack all when I can't get bodies onto objectives.

Unit by unit break down as I have played every option for Nurgle;

HQ:

Belakor is just an absolute beast. His most relevant combat stats don't degrade as he takes damage, he has a ton of defensive buffs in Shadow Form, he gives himself and all other daemons reroll 1 tohit and Lord of Torment stacking with the general Daemonic rule is really nice. Even if your opponent ignores combat attrition modifiers, AKA Space Marines, you still give everything in 6" -2 LD which makes it so much easier to take off another model at least. His psychic abilities are a bit meh so I guess that is the one bad thing I can say.

GUO are just terrible. Absolutely garbage units that I am not even sure I would bring to the table again. Yes, I can make a GUO that can tank my opponents entire army worth of shooting. T10 24W -1D that regenerates wounds equal to the round number is just a big sack of distraction carnifex. The problem is that they are slow, they don't hit very hard when they get there and all of their best melee abilities degrade as they go. I never once felt like I benefited from having these guys.

The herald level models are all pretty much the same so there isn't much to say other than the fact that the Poxbringer is the best, Scrivener is second best and the Bilepiper is just terribad. Poxbringer can make your Plaguebearers pretty damn scary when they are hitting at damage 3 is nasty....kinda. The problem is that you are relying on Plaguebearers to get across the table and with almost everything having AoC -2 AP doesn't cut it.

Epidemius isn't worth it. I honestly never felt like I didn't have enough WS points for what I wanted to do or at the very least never felt like 1 more was going to make a difference.

Hoticulus Slimux was actually a pretty good unit. Beast Handler being a 9" buff is nice because I think it is best used on Plague Drones and he hits decently hard in melee. His ability to screw with area terrain is a nice little bonus to an already solid platform so I was happy with the whole package.

Troops:

Nurglings, just why? I don't care about ObSec, that can be worked around in numerous ways with Nurgle. Not taking up the troop role makes them just so unappealing. The only reason to take them is for the troop tax but since they don't count as troops why bother? Yes they can grab objectives early on in the game but you are spending a lot of points for a unit that will lose the objective to anything with ObSec in the first turn and they give your opponent a unit in charge range to slingshot into melee sooner.

Plaguebearers are just alright. They are not as resilient as I would want, even with buffs, they are slow and they don't hit that hard except when buffed up by a Poxbringer. The issue is that they are limited to 10 man squads so even with all of those buffs you are looking at about 21 attacks at full strength hitting on fours, threes with a Scriviner. T5 2W 4+ is a decently resilient state line but not enough that my opponents couldn't take them out with little trouble. The regenerative abilities you can use to bring them back are a waste of time in my experience; if your opponent knows you have those abilities all they need to do is focus each squad down just like Necrons.

Elites:

Beast of Nurgle are too expensive. Not much else to say, don't mind having one or two as back field objective holders but generally I didn't care much for them.

Fast Attack:

Plague Drones are actually my one darling unit that I love. They are Plaguebearer Core so they can benefit from all of the buffs from the heralds. Taken in squads of 5 you can use Revolting Constitution on them for 1CP and due to them being T6 5W 4+ at range they require some anti-tank firepower to put down and giving them transhuman actually makes sense. They don't hit that hard but nothing in the army really does, so I don't knock em for that.

Heavy:

Soul Grinder rocks. Soul Grinder is life. Take more Soul Grinders.


This all seems pretty on point to me, nurgle is just too slow, doesn't hit hard and isn't tanky enough to make up for those drawbacks.

The great unclean one is shocking, just look at the special rule section of his datasheet - no unique rules! Its a greater daemon, surly it should have something unique and special about it.

The Drones and Grinders really are the core of any nurgle lists as they can get places and kill things but army speed and flexibility/tricksyness is key in 9th and nurgle just doesnt have any.

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Made in us
Reading a Book in the Tower of Prospero





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

What secondary seems effective for demons?

I'm sorta struggling here, outside of taking the defaults (Assassinate, Grind & Behind Enemy Lines).

To give you an idea of what I can brings (these are models that I own):
Spoiler:
+++ Deamon (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [106 PL, 2,000pts, 1CP] +++

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Chaos - Daemons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +
Changecaster: Bolt of Change, Gaze of Fate, Ritual dagger

+ HQ +
Bloodthirster: Blood-drinker Talisman, Great axe of Khorne, Indomitable Onslaught, Relics of the Brass Citadel

Lord of Change: Architect of Deception, Baleful sword, Bolt of Change, Infernal Gateway, Relics of the Impossible Fortress, The Impossible Robe, Treason of Tzeentch

+ Troops +
Nurglings
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

+ Elites +
Exalted Flamer

Exalted Flamer

Exalted Flamer

Flamers: Pyrocaster
. 5x Flamer: 5x Flickering flames

+ Heavy Support +
Soul Grinder: Mark of Nurgle, Warpsword

++ Supreme Command Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Daemons) ++

+ Primarch | Daemon Primarch | Supreme Commander +
Be'lakor: Betraying Shades, Pall of Despair, Warlord


BATTLEFIELD SUPREMACY
I think I'm digging REALITY REBELS, with nurglings securing at least 2 table quarters (and objectives) for most games, and then move the Soulgrinder to center for the other scoring (Changercaster will go here for warp ritual would also count here too for this secondary if 'grinder has to move away from center).

I know the nurglings and this secondary sorta tees up this army if my opponents wants to chase them down in 1st turn, but that's okay with me as this army has 3 (4*) big melee boppers who wants to be in hand to hand.

*I still think a LoC with impossible robe with maelific bale sword is a decent threat.

WARPCRAFT
With Changecaster, I'm thinking of this model sticks with the Soulgrinder generally 6" to board's center to do WARP RITUAL (or if my opponent has lots of characters, pick PSYHIC INTERROGATION). I brought Changecaster as I don't want to waste a LoC/Be'lakor psyhic round on actions.

As to the 3rd Secondary, I'm really struggling as I only have 4 infantry units... I would probably pick one of Assassinate, Grind them down or Retrieve Nephilim Data. With Retrieve, I would likely deepstrike 2 Exalted Flamers to drop one turn 2 and other turn 3 to complete that action.

I still need to wrap my head our the mission scoring to see if this army still works, but I think I'm on the right track.

Any feedback is appreciated.

6000
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!

4000

∞ Chaos Daemons and CSM


 
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Played one game with the codex and on one hand, i feel like if we had more codexes of that powerlevel/complexity the game would be better.

But in the context of 9th edition where everything is cranked to 11, it feels really lackluster.

I really feel as if theres a couple pages missing in the dex.

Where are the undivided strats
Where are the legion traits equivalents (monogod bonuses)
   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Played one game with the codex and on one hand, i feel like if we had more codexes of that powerlevel/complexity the game would be better.

But in the context of 9th edition where everything is cranked to 11, it feels really lackluster.

I really feel as if theres a couple pages missing in the dex.

Where are the undivided strats
Where are the legion traits equivalents (monogod bonuses)


Totally agree, the codex is on a great level if taken out of context with the current meta armies, a much toned down level of stackable rules and interactions, more power given to simple stats on the datasheet - the game would be much improved if future books were of a similar level (obviously they are not - I've read the voltan stuff!!).

The lack on monogod bnonuses and ability to take WL traits really stands out as very strange in this edition. Where is a nurgle rule for being extra resilient or a Khorne rule for hitting harder on the charge - just seems to be missing.

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12,000pts
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4,000pts
4,000pts
2,000pts
4,000pts
2,000pts 
   
Made in us
Reading a Book in the Tower of Prospero





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 WisdomLS wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Played one game with the codex and on one hand, i feel like if we had more codexes of that powerlevel/complexity the game would be better.

But in the context of 9th edition where everything is cranked to 11, it feels really lackluster.

I really feel as if theres a couple pages missing in the dex.

Where are the undivided strats
Where are the legion traits equivalents (monogod bonuses)


Totally agree, the codex is on a great level if taken out of context with the current meta armies, a much toned down level of stackable rules and interactions, more power given to simple stats on the datasheet - the game would be much improved if future books were of a similar level (obviously they are not - I've read the voltan stuff!!).

The lack on monogod bnonuses and ability to take WL traits really stands out as very strange in this edition. Where is a nurgle rule for being extra resilient or a Khorne rule for hitting harder on the charge - just seems to be missing.

I'm hoping to see that expanded by Army of Renown in some future supplement.

6000
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!

4000

∞ Chaos Daemons and CSM


 
   
Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior




 whembly wrote:
What secondary seems effective for demons?

I'm sorta struggling here, outside of taking the defaults (Assassinate, Grind & Behind Enemy Lines).

To give you an idea of what I can brings (these are models that I own):
Spoiler:
+++ Deamon (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [106 PL, 2,000pts, 1CP] +++

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Chaos - Daemons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +
Changecaster: Bolt of Change, Gaze of Fate, Ritual dagger

+ HQ +
Bloodthirster: Blood-drinker Talisman, Great axe of Khorne, Indomitable Onslaught, Relics of the Brass Citadel

Lord of Change: Architect of Deception, Baleful sword, Bolt of Change, Infernal Gateway, Relics of the Impossible Fortress, The Impossible Robe, Treason of Tzeentch

+ Troops +
Nurglings
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

+ Elites +
Exalted Flamer

Exalted Flamer

Exalted Flamer

Flamers: Pyrocaster
. 5x Flamer: 5x Flickering flames

+ Heavy Support +
Soul Grinder: Mark of Nurgle, Warpsword

++ Supreme Command Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Daemons) ++

+ Primarch | Daemon Primarch | Supreme Commander +
Be'lakor: Betraying Shades, Pall of Despair, Warlord


BATTLEFIELD SUPREMACY
I think I'm digging REALITY REBELS, with nurglings securing at least 2 table quarters (and objectives) for most games, and then move the Soulgrinder to center for the other scoring (Changercaster will go here for warp ritual would also count here too for this secondary if 'grinder has to move away from center).

I know the nurglings and this secondary sorta tees up this army if my opponents wants to chase them down in 1st turn, but that's okay with me as this army has 3 (4*) big melee boppers who wants to be in hand to hand.

*I still think a LoC with impossible robe with maelific bale sword is a decent threat.

WARPCRAFT
With Changecaster, I'm thinking of this model sticks with the Soulgrinder generally 6" to board's center to do WARP RITUAL (or if my opponent has lots of characters, pick PSYHIC INTERROGATION). I brought Changecaster as I don't want to waste a LoC/Be'lakor psyhic round on actions.

As to the 3rd Secondary, I'm really struggling as I only have 4 infantry units... I would probably pick one of Assassinate, Grind them down or Retrieve Nephilim Data. With Retrieve, I would likely deepstrike 2 Exalted Flamers to drop one turn 2 and other turn 3 to complete that action.

I still need to wrap my head our the mission scoring to see if this army still works, but I think I'm on the right track.

Any feedback is appreciated.


A couple of things here, first the most glaring is that your list is not legal in the new codex. Nurglings do not count towards compulsory slots. Second Reality Rebels requires you to have MORE demon units in each quarter than your opponent so I think you are better off just going for engage.

That is the biggest problem with all of the Daemon secondaries, they are like generic secondaries but worse. Reality Rebels is just a worse Engage, Nourished by Terror is just a worst No Prisoners, and Despoilers of Reality is just uniquely bad.

Warpcraft are all fine choices for the army, depending on what your opponent brings. Khorne being the only one that can take abhor the witch, but does it only matters against certain armies. Your basic "kill <blank>" secondaries are probably just gonna be your best bet.
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





Reality rebels opponent needs to have more to deny. You have 1, he needs 2.you have 2, he needs 3. You win ties

Getting 1 unit to center plus your home nets as much as engage holding 3. You can be in less areas at once netting same so less spreading thin. Especially good when objectives lead toward fight in center where units don't count for engage. Also any random model adds up to unit total unlike engage.


It's not all bad. Maybe if terrain and objectives say "don't go center"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/13 17:52:07


2022 painted/bought: 681/867 
   
Made in us
Reading a Book in the Tower of Prospero





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
 whembly wrote:
What secondary seems effective for demons?

I'm sorta struggling here, outside of taking the defaults (Assassinate, Grind & Behind Enemy Lines).

To give you an idea of what I can brings (these are models that I own):
Spoiler:
+++ Deamon (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [106 PL, 2,000pts, 1CP] +++

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Chaos - Daemons) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +
Changecaster: Bolt of Change, Gaze of Fate, Ritual dagger

+ HQ +
Bloodthirster: Blood-drinker Talisman, Great axe of Khorne, Indomitable Onslaught, Relics of the Brass Citadel

Lord of Change: Architect of Deception, Baleful sword, Bolt of Change, Infernal Gateway, Relics of the Impossible Fortress, The Impossible Robe, Treason of Tzeentch

+ Troops +
Nurglings
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

+ Elites +
Exalted Flamer

Exalted Flamer

Exalted Flamer

Flamers: Pyrocaster
. 5x Flamer: 5x Flickering flames

+ Heavy Support +
Soul Grinder: Mark of Nurgle, Warpsword

++ Supreme Command Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Daemons) ++

+ Primarch | Daemon Primarch | Supreme Commander +
Be'lakor: Betraying Shades, Pall of Despair, Warlord


BATTLEFIELD SUPREMACY
I think I'm digging REALITY REBELS, with nurglings securing at least 2 table quarters (and objectives) for most games, and then move the Soulgrinder to center for the other scoring (Changercaster will go here for warp ritual would also count here too for this secondary if 'grinder has to move away from center).

I know the nurglings and this secondary sorta tees up this army if my opponents wants to chase them down in 1st turn, but that's okay with me as this army has 3 (4*) big melee boppers who wants to be in hand to hand.

*I still think a LoC with impossible robe with maelific bale sword is a decent threat.

WARPCRAFT
With Changecaster, I'm thinking of this model sticks with the Soulgrinder generally 6" to board's center to do WARP RITUAL (or if my opponent has lots of characters, pick PSYHIC INTERROGATION). I brought Changecaster as I don't want to waste a LoC/Be'lakor psyhic round on actions.

As to the 3rd Secondary, I'm really struggling as I only have 4 infantry units... I would probably pick one of Assassinate, Grind them down or Retrieve Nephilim Data. With Retrieve, I would likely deepstrike 2 Exalted Flamers to drop one turn 2 and other turn 3 to complete that action.

I still need to wrap my head our the mission scoring to see if this army still works, but I think I'm on the right track.

Any feedback is appreciated.


A couple of things here, first the most glaring is that your list is not legal in the new codex. Nurglings do not count towards compulsory slots.

This is a Vanguard detachment, so no compulsory troops needed.

Second Reality Rebels requires you to have MORE demon units in each quarter than your opponent so I think you are better off just going for engage.

I thought of that, but engage requires you to hit at least 3 quarters, whereas with Rebels you can at least score 1 quarter rather easily, and potentially 2.

Another bonus with Rebels is that other scoring by being in the table's center and with 4 big buffy units available, should be doable to score.

Furthermore, focusing on trying to score on those 2 quarters via Rebels would entice my opponent to get close with me if the desire is to deny me that objective. With 'thirster/be'lakor/'grinder... they WANT to be in melee.

That is the biggest problem with all of the Daemon secondaries, they are like generic secondaries but worse. Reality Rebels is just a worse Engage, Nourished by Terror is just a worst No Prisoners, and Despoilers of Reality is just uniquely bad.

I think I disagree on Reality Rebels and it should see more play. (I prefer it over Engage for this army). But, agreed on the rest .

Warpcraft are all fine choices for the army, depending on what your opponent brings. Khorne being the only one that can take abhor the witch, but does it only matters against certain armies. Your basic "kill <blank>" secondaries are probably just gonna be your best bet.

Yeah, totally see that.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/09/13 18:38:13


6000
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!

4000

∞ Chaos Daemons and CSM


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced Inquisitorial Acolyte



Seattle, WA

The codex leans heavily on greater daemons, but Votann seems custom built to tear down our heavy hitters and Knights. Their grudge ability lets them delete GUO's in a turn and their MW ability 'dwarfs' ours.

It looks like the only viable way to have any meta presence is with mixed god armies. I think GW intended for us to stop looking looking at daemons as a single god-faction army. The warp storm abilities we get for going mono aren't stellar and we gain a bevy of tools in our toolboxes via stratagems and a wider array of datasheets if we mix. Be'lakors AoR sucks but mixed detachments don't lose much.

My Scabreithrax may be Legends, but he'll see more play than my GUO's or Rotigus. He's much tankier despite T8 and the points increase to GD's makes the price difference less noticeable. In Legends environments, look at the FW daemons for a boost to your army. My FW LoC though, he's still a shelf piece.

If no Legends and mono, Nurgle and Tzeentch can stay in the warp.

 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Played with mono slaanesh on the weekend vs slaanesh marines.

opponent ignoring any modifiers was a bit annoying since it was so shooting heavy.

I missed the boat on soulgrinders. both of mine didn't do much other than die.

How are people using their soulgrinders?

summoning 3" away in your own deployment was nice.

the ASF Windstorm makes for a pretty good save in at least a couple turns.

daemonettes with Hysterical Frenzy, the -1 AP strat and Sylle'Eske made the point and click delete.

The key will be not caring about terrain but tearing across the board.

I also don't see why people love Fiends. Enraptress was pretty good though. Maybe I need to move her up and Deep Strike the fiends so they operate more in tandem.
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal




 WisdomLS wrote:


The lack on monogod bnonuses and ability to take WL traits really stands out as very strange in this edition. Where is a nurgle rule for being extra resilient or a Khorne rule for hitting harder on the charge - just seems to be missing.


Not just the loss of monogod bonuses (the loci) but the god specific unit abilities were either moved into the stat line or put into the warpstom table. Nurgle's increased resiliance is given with higher toughness and more wounds. Khorne gets higher Strength and an extra attack. Slaanesh has base 10"+ movement with lots of attacks with lower strength. Tzeentch has a higher defense against shooting at the cost of worst save against melee.

Want more attacks as Khorne? Spend Warpstorm points. Want you're Nurgle units to shrug off wounds again? Too bad, that's gone now but you can get an addition -1 AP against Vehicles or +1 to hit in combat. Have Slaanesh go 1st in combat? Warpstorm points. Better casting as Tzeentch? Warpstorm points. Want access to all of these? That's 4 different detachments unless you take Bel' akor in a Supreme Commander detachment.

For Slaanesh the Enraptress is great at 80pts. Not only does s/he give Warp Locus but also carries a 24" Lascannon, can bring back models within 6", cause Perils on any double within 24", and gives re-roll wounds of 1 within 6". Pink Horrors feel over priced for a mid to close range shooting unit that dies the moment it gets into combat, which it will, and brings what amounts to a boltgun. They also lost the ability to cast Smite. On the upside you don't need to assign wounds to the Pinks first so feel free to kill the Blue and Brimstones first again.

There are parts of the codex I like, but it just feels so fragmented and unfinished. Khorne feels like the most balanced of the 4 imo.
   
Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior




@Whembly Lol you are right, I didn't pay enough attention to notice that it was a vanguard detachment. My bad.

As for engage v reality rebels, I think that hiding some nurglings around your deployment mixed with your monsters moving into your opponents quarters will net you more with engage than with reality rebels. Honestly I think both are decent enough choices compared to each other but I don't really think that either is that great... They might just be the best of the worst choices.

Also, holy gak I just reread the Exalted GUO Revoltingly Resilient and noticed that it was -1D in melee only. GUO is so much worse than I initially thought and I had very low opinions to begin with.
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





How to reality rebels scored me vs engage:

Turn 1. 1 vs 0.
Turn 2. 3 vs 2
Turn 3. 3 vs 2.
Turn 4. 2 vs 0
Turn 5. 0 vs 0.

Might have been able to eek engage point on turn 4 but requires not getting to melee with something.

9 vs 4

2022 painted/bought: 681/867 
   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

BomBomHotdog wrote:
 WisdomLS wrote:


The lack on monogod bnonuses and ability to take WL traits really stands out as very strange in this edition. Where is a nurgle rule for being extra resilient or a Khorne rule for hitting harder on the charge - just seems to be missing.


Not just the loss of monogod bonuses (the loci) but the god specific unit abilities were either moved into the stat line or put into the warpstom table. Nurgle's increased resiliance is given with higher toughness and more wounds. Khorne gets higher Strength and an extra attack. Slaanesh has base 10"+ movement with lots of attacks with lower strength. Tzeentch has a higher defense against shooting at the cost of worst save against melee.

Want more attacks as Khorne? Spend Warpstorm points. Want you're Nurgle units to shrug off wounds again? Too bad, that's gone now but you can get an addition -1 AP against Vehicles or +1 to hit in combat. Have Slaanesh go 1st in combat? Warpstorm points. Better casting as Tzeentch? Warpstorm points. Want access to all of these? That's 4 different detachments unless you take Bel' akor in a Supreme Commander detachment.

For Slaanesh the Enraptress is great at 80pts. Not only does s/he give Warp Locus but also carries a 24" Lascannon, can bring back models within 6", cause Perils on any double within 24", and gives re-roll wounds of 1 within 6". Pink Horrors feel over priced for a mid to close range shooting unit that dies the moment it gets into combat, which it will, and brings what amounts to a boltgun. They also lost the ability to cast Smite. On the upside you don't need to assign wounds to the Pinks first so feel free to kill the Blue and Brimstones first again.

There are parts of the codex I like, but it just feels so fragmented and unfinished. Khorne feels like the most balanced of the 4 imo.


You are correct that many of the god abilities have just been moved onto the dataslate, the problem is that other factions got buffs like these and still kept their abilities ;-(

30,000pts
12,000pts
2,000pts
4,000pts
4,000pts
2,000pts
4,000pts
2,000pts 
   
Made in be
Been Around the Block




Warpstorm points should also be rolled for every turn instead of every battleround
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




So, I'm preparing for some (casual) games tomorrow and looking at taking Khorne and have just realized how awesome the Skull Altar is.

50 points gets you a t8 9w 4+/4+ model that has an 18" -2 psy cast aura, AND has the ritual slaughter rule. Smart placement of the fortification from warp manifestation on T2 means that you stand a good chance of getting multiple warp storm points. I know that people are so / so on the wrap storm table, but the stand outs are Fury of Khorne (+1 attack), or Dark Invigoration (models back!).

My plan is to hold 3 x Bloodletter squads and the Skull Altar (with Skulltaker in it) in the warp to bust down T2 and support the rest of my army that has been moving up ready to kill.
   
Made in us
Twisting Tzeentch Horror





Got in another few games and pretty much everything has went the way I thought........

Flamers are super broken. They would still be a must take at 35 points

A lot of the units feel over-costed. Screamers very much so, but also Bloodcrushers, Horrors (actually most of the troops), the chariots, and a few others.

Unless you are playing a fluffy army, to me there is no reason not to mix and match between gods, and if you are going competitive, I think it is a must. The only thing you lose is the god specific warpstrom abilities and quite frankly, none of them are so good that it is worth losing out on taking the best units from each of the gods (bloodthrister, flamers, nurgle soulgrinder, deepstrike blood letters, probably seekers).

Soulgrinders are great now. I did not think their shooting would be that impressive, but the last two games it was very effective, especially against units without armor or contempt. I still don't think you just sit back and shoot with them, but shoot while you charge up the field.

   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Some of the god specific warpstorm abilities are quite good. You dont get those when you mix, only in pure detachments. Tzeentch +1 to cast, khorne +1 attack, khorne D3 MW to ALL enemy units in 24" on a roll of 6. When your dice goes hot it can do a lot damage for only 2 WSP.
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





+1a runs into issue of being overkill. At least the game i had lack of killing power was not an issue Anything died even without it. -1 to hit was lot more of a thing.

The mw thing was super meh. 2 times rolling for entire army and got aggressor(who was going to die to bloodthirster anyway) and wound to 2 units which didn't do anything in the end.

+1 to cast is lot more interesting and always strike first can be useful at some situations.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/17 06:25:15


2022 painted/bought: 681/867 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

tneva82 wrote:
+1a runs into issue of being overkill. At least the game i had lack of killing power was not an issue Anything died even without it. -1 to hit was lot more of a thing.


Depends on the situation. A unit of bloodletters benefit from +1A, when only wounding on 4s or even 5s.

tneva82 wrote:

The mw thing was super meh. 2 times rolling for entire army and got aggressor(who was going to die to bloodthirster anyway) and wound to 2 units which didn't do anything in the end.


If those 2 WSP are left over, give it a try, better than losing them at the end of the turn.

tneva82 wrote:

+1 to cast is lot more interesting and always strike first can be useful at some situations.


+1 to cast even benefits belakor, when in a tzeentch detachment, and strike first is always good.
   
 
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