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 Quixote wrote:
I really love some of the Imperial Guard aircraft like the Valkyrie and the Avenger (and I've always wanted to get an Avenger and paint her up like an A-10 Warthog).

More to the point-I'm building a Scion heavy force and am planning on buying some Valkyries to cart my Scions around in, but everything I see online says to avoid Flyers like the proverbial plague.

What am I missing? The Valkyries seem like they would be just fine hovering around like land speeders...

Because Flyers usually aren't very good. And when Flyers are good, they're usually too good. They're relatively new, and while the concept for their use isn't bad, GW has not done well balancing them.

Breton wrote:

 Quixote wrote:
I really love some of the Imperial Guard aircraft like the Valkyrie and the Avenger (and I've always wanted to get an Avenger and paint her up like an A-10 Warthog).

More to the point-I'm building a Scion heavy force and am planning on buying some Valkyries to cart my Scions around in, but everything I see online says to avoid Flyers like the proverbial plague.

What am I missing? The Valkyries seem like they would be just fine hovering around like land speeders...

Because Flyers usually aren't very good. And when Flyers are good, they're usually too good. They're relatively new, and while the concept for their use isn't bad, GW has not done well balancing them.

I disagree. I think the concept is the bad part. If it were just a matter of the flyer rules working well but the points being a bit too high or low, then that would just be a Munitorum update fix. I think the problems and weirdness that we get with flyers ultimately stem from them just not being a good fit for a game of 40k's scale. Or at least, the jet planes aren't. "Helicoptors" are fine. Eldar grav tanks are capable of full on flight and usually don't get the same level of ire. (Except when GW makes them OP.)

 Wyldhunt wrote:

Breton wrote:

 Quixote wrote:
I really love some of the Imperial Guard aircraft like the Valkyrie and the Avenger (and I've always wanted to get an Avenger and paint her up like an A-10 Warthog).

More to the point-I'm building a Scion heavy force and am planning on buying some Valkyries to cart my Scions around in, but everything I see online says to avoid Flyers like the proverbial plague.

What am I missing? The Valkyries seem like they would be just fine hovering around like land speeders...

Because Flyers usually aren't very good. And when Flyers are good, they're usually too good. They're relatively new, and while the concept for their use isn't bad, GW has not done well balancing them.

I disagree. I think the concept is the bad part. If it were just a matter of the flyer rules working well but the points being a bit too high or low, then that would just be a Munitorum update fix. I think the problems and weirdness that we get with flyers ultimately stem from them just not being a good fit for a game of 40k's scale. Or at least, the jet planes aren't. "Helicoptors" are fine. Eldar grav tanks are capable of full on flight and usually don't get the same level of ire. (Except when GW makes them OP.)

and yet we don't have all these supposed problems while playing HH.
I don't know about you, but we play HH on the exact same tables, with the exact same mats, with same sized models (some times the exact same models!)....

I suspect it's more that you just don't see have a problem with some of the wonky behaviors/abstractions that I do. Which is fine.

HH is still basically 7.5, right? So flyers are still doing donuts to stay on the table or else spending half the game off the table? Are they still only hittable on 6+ with guns that lack the skyfire rule?

 Wyldhunt wrote:

Breton wrote:

 Quixote wrote:
I really love some of the Imperial Guard aircraft like the Valkyrie and the Avenger (and I've always wanted to get an Avenger and paint her up like an A-10 Warthog).

More to the point-I'm building a Scion heavy force and am planning on buying some Valkyries to cart my Scions around in, but everything I see online says to avoid Flyers like the proverbial plague.

What am I missing? The Valkyries seem like they would be just fine hovering around like land speeders...

Because Flyers usually aren't very good. And when Flyers are good, they're usually too good. They're relatively new, and while the concept for their use isn't bad, GW has not done well balancing them.

I disagree. I think the concept is the bad part. If it were just a matter of the flyer rules working well but the points being a bit too high or low, then that would just be a Munitorum update fix. I think the problems and weirdness that we get with flyers ultimately stem from them just not being a good fit for a game of 40k's scale. Or at least, the jet planes aren't. "Helicoptors" are fine. Eldar grav tanks are capable of full on flight and usually don't get the same level of ire. (Except when GW makes them OP.)

The concept I was referring to is the Shared but Separate Space thing - where you can pass over/under/engagement range etc The implementation I was referring to is the part where the planes have to suck, or they're so good you have to take dedicated anti-plane stuff, they haven't gotten the middle ground yet where the planes are good, but don't require hard counter dedication type of list interactions. Not just a matter of the points costs. Having to wait half the game to use your plane is ridiculous. Having to drag along a couple Anti-Aircraft tanks just in case someone brings a plane is also ridiculous.