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 Wyldhunt wrote:

Yeah. Mostly agree. I still don't *love* psychic tests because librarians and sorcerers failing to put up a forcefield or shoot a lightning bolt when they try to do so just isn't really a thing in the lore/novels. I'd rather it be either a succeed/succeed more mechanic or a succeed-but-you-have-to-manage-stress-like-battle-tech-heat system.

In terms of psychic tests, what about something along these lines:

- Psykers cast powers using Stamina Points. Each power causes the Psyker to gain a certain number of Stamina Points (some may be able to be overcast for greater effect at the cost of additional points).

- Could potentially allow Psykers to attempt the same power more than once, though the cost increases by 1 for each prior time they've cast it that turn.

- Immediately after using a Power, a Psyker must take a Stamina Test - they roll 2d6. If the roll exceeds their current Stamina Points, nothing happens. However, if they roll under their current Stamina Points they suffer a number of Mortal Wounds (could be based on the difference or on their overall Stamina level). Either way, they reduce their Stamina by the number of Mortal Wounds suffered but can cast no more powers that turn.

- Stamina could either reset each turn or otherwise Psykers could reduce their Stamina by a certain number each turn.

Just spitballing but it would mean psykers never fail to cast powers but instead risk pushing themselves too hard if they cast too many powers or overly strong powers in a short timeframe.

 vipoid wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:

Yeah. Mostly agree. I still don't *love* psychic tests because librarians and sorcerers failing to put up a forcefield or shoot a lightning bolt when they try to do so just isn't really a thing in the lore/novels. I'd rather it be either a succeed/succeed more mechanic or a succeed-but-you-have-to-manage-stress-like-battle-tech-heat system.

In terms of psychic tests, what about something along these lines:

- Psykers cast powers using Stamina Points. Each power causes the Psyker to gain a certain number of Stamina Points (some may be able to be overcast for greater effect at the cost of additional points).

- Could potentially allow Psykers to attempt the same power more than once, though the cost increases by 1 for each prior time they've cast it that turn.

- Immediately after using a Power, a Psyker must take a Stamina Test - they roll 2d6. If the roll exceeds their current Stamina Points, nothing happens. However, if they roll under their current Stamina Points they suffer a number of Mortal Wounds (could be based on the difference or on their overall Stamina level). Either way, they reduce their Stamina by the number of Mortal Wounds suffered but can cast no more powers that turn.

- Stamina could either reset each turn or otherwise Psykers could reduce their Stamina by a certain number each turn.

Just spitballing but it would mean psykers never fail to cast powers but instead risk pushing themselves too hard if they cast too many powers or overly strong powers in a short timeframe.

If one dislikes the possibility of psykers blowing up too easily I'd rather like the idea of using something like the advanced spell system from Lotr. You have basic spells (or a basic variant of a spell) where you can't blow up and an advanced variant where you do risk perils. Wouldn't make the game too complicated and you could have fun building the faction rules around it, like Orks having only advanced and even more advanced spells were you blow up on every doubles, or Daemons turning basic into advanced spells for your opponent and so on.

vipoid wrote:
In terms of psychic tests, what about something along these lines:

- Psykers cast powers using Stamina Points. Each power causes the Psyker to gain a certain number of Stamina Points (some may be able to be overcast for greater effect at the cost of additional points).

- Could potentially allow Psykers to attempt the same power more than once, though the cost increases by 1 for each prior time they've cast it that turn.

- Immediately after using a Power, a Psyker must take a Stamina Test - they roll 2d6. If the roll exceeds their current Stamina Points, nothing happens. However, if they roll under their current Stamina Points they suffer a number of Mortal Wounds (could be based on the difference or on their overall Stamina level). Either way, they reduce their Stamina by the number of Mortal Wounds suffered but can cast no more powers that turn.

- Stamina could either reset each turn or otherwise Psykers could reduce their Stamina by a certain number each turn.

Just spitballing but it would mean psykers never fail to cast powers but instead risk pushing themselves too hard if they cast too many powers or overly strong powers in a short timeframe.

Something like that, yeah. I probably wouldn't allow the casting of the same power multiple times by the same psyker, and I'd probably have them only restore X Stamina at the start of their turn (so you can potentially still be more at-risk on the subsequent turn, which allows but also discourages "going nova" every turn.) That would also open up casting some powers defensively on the opponent's turn.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
If one dislikes the possibility of psykers blowing up too easily I'd rather like the idea of using something like the advanced spell system from Lotr. You have basic spells (or a basic variant of a spell) where you can't blow up and an advanced variant where you do risk perils. Wouldn't make the game too complicated and you could have fun building the faction rules around it, like Orks having only advanced and even more advanced spells were you blow up on every doubles, or Daemons turning basic into advanced spells for your opponent and so on.

Yeah, something like that would also be okay by me. You'd have the safe, guaranteed versions of your powers, but you could opt to remove the safety glass and go for a bigger effect at the risk of serious self-damage. (Which also means you could get away with perils being a bigger deal because you opted into them.)

The Thousand Sons current ritual casting system is OK, but the chance for your wizard marines who spend all day every day wizarding to just randomly fail to be magical is kind of a pain. So like, make the basic versions of those powers guaranteed, and only have perils happen when you opt to roll the extra die to go for a big effect.

Slipspace wrote:
IIRC, AoS also has damage carry over between models. So a D2 weapon that wounds 1-wound models kills 2 models. That removes a lot of nuance from the statlines of weapons. Along with fixed wound rolls, it boils the maths down to a very simple calculation to figure out which is always the best choice.

Other things like the double turn are big problems, I think. AoS also seems even more herohammer than 40k, which I think is a step in the wrong direction.

In short, I don't think the combat is the thing to take from AoS. Some of the army selection and deployment rules look quite good, but I'd rather see 40k address its issues with solutions that work within the rough framework we already have.

It also means all those dice are purposeless as they could be represented in a single roll. The main point of the original hit/wound/save is all three were comparing different attributes and there were strengths and weaknesses in what you chose.

Without comparitive stats, you might as well roll a dice each and always pick wounds on a result without hit and wound.

The game, ultimately, is unexciting despite the herohammer too.