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Posted By droidman on 09/26/2006 6:20 AM

How did 6 daemonnettes chew up the unit? Assuming you had some shield drones to absord the rending attacks, the Shasv're and Farsight should've wiped the floor with them.

Something I learned the hard way, you don't necesserily need to wipe out units with your shooting, just hurt them enough that they can't really hurt iyou in assault the next turn.

Yep, I was unlucky to roll badly for the morale test. But the bigger factor was stupid mini placement on my part (and maybe the WS2 of the unit).

And shooting didn't seem to matter against MEQs - if I left one member of a squad alive, he'd charge, tie up the unit and cause damage.

That experience illustrates exactly why the Farsight mega-unit is the only place where the Failsafe Detonator actually makes sense. Granted, you admit that you made tactical errors, and you'd already taken a good many casualties, but it would have been a heck of a lot better to lose one more suit, instead of losing the entire remainder of the unit. Heck, the blast may have actually taken out a few Daemonettes.

And shooting didn't seem to matter against MEQs - if I left one member of a squad alive, he'd charge, tie up the unit and cause damage.

Strange, I love it when 1 or 2 MEQ's charge me, I normally annihiliate them and use the extra movement.

Perhaps your spreading out to much.

Posted By Davian on 09/27/2006 7:49 PM
That experience illustrates exactly why the Farsight mega-unit is the only place where the Failsafe Detonator actually makes sense. Granted, you admit that you made tactical errors, and you'd already taken a good many casualties, but it would have been a heck of a lot better to lose one more suit, instead of losing the entire remainder of the unit. Heck, the blast may have actually taken out a few Daemonettes.

I did have the Failsafe Detonator but three problems arose with it. Firstly, I forgot it. My stpidity entirely. I can never seem to remember that or the Stimulant Injector.

Secondly, and this thought occurred to me after the game, the FD is incredibly tricky to use. You have to get the Crisis Suit up front and involved in the combat (for the blast to be effective). But you have to ensure he is not removed as a casualty and at the same time ensure that there are little or no other Crisis Suits/Drones around him - their 3+ save might help but it's a risk.

That's pretty damn tricky to do.

For example, in the battle we were just referring to, the Tau miniatures that were 'engaged' in the assault did not include the Crisis Suit with the Failsafe Detonator. Which meant that if I did use, yes, I could have moved other Crisis Suits away from the FD model but the blast still might have killed some and certainly would not have killed any Daemonettes.

And, of course, although you can fire in the following turn, you can't (counter-)charge.

And I wonder how the FD is resolved when you're fighting two or more units?

 

Posted By droidman on 09/27/2006 10:55 PM

And shooting didn't seem to matter against MEQs - if I left one member of a squad alive, he'd charge, tie up the unit and cause damage.

Strange, I love it when 1 or 2 MEQ's charge me, I normally annihiliate them and use the extra movement.

Perhaps your spreading out to much.

Definitely. That's one thing I did do and realised it was a big mistake.

 

And, of course, although you can fire in the following turn, you can't (counter-)charge.

And I wonder how the FD is resolved when you're fighting two or more units?

 

You can "counter"-charge (by this I assume you mean charging the unit that broke you and not the USR), the rulebook allows you to declare a charge after rallying.  Distance might be a problem but you do get to consolidate after rallying and normally that 3" should be enough to get you back in range.

I don't believe that there's any difference when fighting more then 1 units, the FD refers to the enemy and not units

It's tricky but with some pratice you'll be fine. 

Posted By droidman on 09/28/2006 4:16 AM

 

And, of course, although you can fire in the following turn, you can't (counter-)charge.

And I wonder how the FD is resolved when you're fighting two or more units?

 

You can "counter"-charge (by this I assume you mean charging the unit that broke you and not the USR), the rulebook allows you to declare a charge after rallying.  Distance might be a problem but you do get to consolidate after rallying and normally that 3" should be enough to get you back in range.

I don't believe that there's any difference when fighting more then 1 units, the FD refers to the enemy and not units

It's tricky but with some pratice you'll be fine. 

Well, I could be mistaken. I'll have to check my rulebook. But I'm pretty sure that you can't charge after rallying. Space Marines can, of course, but they have ATSKNF.

But I could be wrong.

EDIT: And what do you know, I am.

Oh, you can defintely rally and charge... you can fleet rally and charge, which is the reason hormagaunts are so lovely in large packs and outside synapse range

I'm unpacking the Tau for the first time in six months this week, so i'll finally get to try this idea out.

Stu-Rat: let us know how that tournament goes. and torgoch, also let us know how the unpacking game is

Stu-Rat, yea the huge size of the unit makes for its own problems. its always balancing which suits need to be where, and having enough drones around them.

u dont need to spread out though, only spread the unit out if:
- you're about to get templated (battle cannons etc)
- you need to stretch the unit to attack multiple things (by shooting or assault or both)
- you need to stretch the unit to claim multiple loot counters

if the unit is compact, it makes it easier to have the right suits in the right place. if they're spread its tricky.
also tricky is thinking ahead with where every suit needs to be, where to put farsight (now that he's definiately still an IC, which makes the list a bit less powerful)

Stu took the tournament.

But I will point out he was the organizer; and avoided fighting the IG and chaos armies... 

A big unit of things that is expensive and dies horribly to ordnance makes my guardsmen happy happy.  That big of a unit, I don't care about scatter!

It doesn't die horribly to ordnance, just a bit quicker then normal...

Well, didn't play the most threatening armies in the world, but compensated by making stupid stupid moves to see how farsight performed. Both games were still easy wins though.

You definitely need to be compact. How do you place the unit? I found it needed to be with sheild drones to the front, ina stright line, and farsight either slightly afront in the centre or at a corner point, so that if the unit gets hit by chargers, he gets hit.

"You definitely need to be compact. How do you place the unit? I found it needed to be with sheild drones to the front, ina stright line, and farsight either slightly afront in the centre or at a corner point, so that if the unit gets hit by chargers, he gets hit."



placement of the unit is tricky, you have a lot of things to deal with at the same time.

if you get charged, you want farsight to have the option to pile in always

and also sometimes you'll want him to be able to get b2b'd on the charge.

if there's fists about though you can't risk it (as then the unit drops to LD8 if he dies)
but conversely sometimes you'll need to fail your LD and use the failsafe to get out of combat, if it looks like you're gonna get swamped. so then you need to b2b farsight.

also, if you're gonna get charged by a few/single init4/5 models, then you maybe want farsight to be the nearest model, so he HAS to get b2b'd, so that he can potentially kill the charger before they swing.

if you put farsight out at the front though, its possible for the enemy to range-snipe him with shooting.



generally the formation i'd run would be fairly compact, roughly circular, with farsight near the front, and the various guns in the right sort of areas to shoot their right targets as they come along (which needs planned several turns in advance)

you also need drones in front of suits, to prevent sniping

A few post-usage notes on Farsight

I finished 14/150 at Heat 3, and if it hadn?t been for running into the walking Ork horde in game 6, the Farsight could easily have challenged for a top 3 place. The army works, there is not doubt about that. I didn?t face any drop pods, but did face 2 Necrons and came out with a good 4/6 points.

One thing I am considering is reducing the size of the Sight-Council as it is too unwieldy. In this I am not thinking in terms of defence as you always hide and spread out to avoid ordnance, but in terms of going forward. The great blob of suits and drones is tricky to advance effectively.

When it gets there, however, it is devastating. Normally Tau don?t get to rapid fire that much, but O?Shovah will nearly always be rapid firing. He can afford to get close and afford to leave a couple of figures alive ? it?s not like he?s really worried about being charged.

One possible alteration I?m considering is deploying a Skyray with targeting array, which can track Farsight?s advance with its markerlights and even join in with burst cannons. As a tank the Skyray is dreadful, but as a Farsight support unit it might well prove to be supremely effective. The possibility of a S8 shot is just a bonus really.

Yeah, if there's any unit that can really benefit from Markerlights, it's the Farsight council.

I use a skyray in my farsight council and it tends to draw a lot of firepower, which is great because that's less dakka directed at the railhead or Sight-council, when it does get to markerlight, I'm using markers to remove cover saves more then anything else.

I play at 1750 so I have the luxury to use both a railhead and skyray, but I'm also experimenting with putting my firewarriors in 'fishes, so far this has worked out great, I don't have anybody on the board in escalation, my FCW become useful by tank shocking, forcing target priority tests and acting as blockers for the council. I don't see how you could find the points for it at 1500 without making the council smaller.

If you're only after a markerlight or two, I'd just as soon stick a markerlight in those two mandatory Fire Warrior squads instead of paying the points for a Skyray. It gives them something to do even if they're a min-size unit. That said, if the addition of a skimmer chassis, the SMS, and the Seekers have a role in your plans, I say go for it.

I tried using a sniper squad to provide a token markerlight, the problem was that with farsight pushing up the table, the targets were often not visible to the sniper squad, I would suspect the FCW would suffer from the same problem. The Skyray can move up the board with the council.