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Hey all, just found this game and glad to hear the minis look great in person because I like the images. Can anyone who has the rules or the figs give me the quick and dirty explanation of playstyles for each of the four factions?

I'm assuming Ares are the "Space Marines" (token elite good guys with better stat lines and lower model count) is that fair? The others?

Thanks in advance.

Time 2 Roll wrote:
Hey all, just found this game and glad to hear the minis look great in person because I like the images. Can anyone who has the rules or the figs give me the quick and dirty explanation of playstyles for each of the four factions?

I'm assuming Ares are the "Space Marines" (token elite good guys with better stat lines and lower model count) is that fair? The others?

Thanks in advance.

So Ares are the superhumans who are not of Earth, but the ex-slaves of some other alien race. They have good armour, good ranged weapons, and good combat stats. But they have poor logistics, meaning that they don't have many tactical options available from the card deck. They also don't suffer fatigue as easily (the turn sequence punishes armies that take a certain number of phases in a row with fatigue).

Riff are definitely middle of the road, with good combat, average guns, and little armour.

Sayx are less combat based, but the best logistics in the game, and have a lot of guns that allow moving and firing, making them far more mobile than other armies. Low armour like the Riff, and shorter ranged guns than the Riff.

The Harvesters, from what I know, are generally the rubbish troops in the game. Low armour, combat, and ranged weapons. Also easy to hit. But! They never suffer fatigue, giving you a tactical element on pushing enemy armies into fatigue. Typically numerous army, with ways to generate new troopers from the dead. So classic Borg.

Was linked to this on BGG, I hadn't really been following the updates but update 67 really does say that...

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1632674/anyone-scale-games-care-comment

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/298260359/fallen-frontiers-reboot/posts/1314856

Were there still people here without their pledges? May wanna check you filled in the pledge manager properly as it seems Scale are deciding they just own your money if you didn't?

Probably written more to make people who do not fill their form to fill it than an evil plan for world dominance, people not filling their pledge survey is a major issue for many kickstarters many creators have complained that they have people not filled their survey up two two years ago.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Probably written more to make people who do not fill their form to fill it than an evil plan for world dominance, people not filling their pledge survey is a major issue for many kickstarters many creators have complained that they have people not filled their survey up two two years ago.

You missed reading the BGG link where it's been enforced on at least one guy.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Probably written more to make people who do not fill their form to fill it than an evil plan for world dominance, people not filling their pledge survey is a major issue for many kickstarters many creators have complained that they have people not filled their survey up two two years ago.

Here is the thing... A pledge manager is not needed to fulfill nor is part of Kickstarter. The agreement for Kickstarter doesn't involve a pledge manager but only involves a survey (which is supposed to be required).

Now a pledge manager does make it easier to facilitate, deliver and organize pledges for "creators" not the backers.

With that in mind. Not completing one does not mean your pledge becomes a "donation". Someone can't change the terms of agreement, that they did not agree too, by saying if you do not complete a pledge manager then it is a donation and sorry you are SOL. Honestly any KS creator who creates an order only based on 100% of the pledge manager, that doesn't account for lost shipping, damages, other issues and doesn't properly order excess stock... then that is on the creator. I would think as a Project Manager, that is par basis and usually part of planning.

Yes it is too bad if someone didn't complete a pledge manager. However I have never EVER had that been an issue with receiving or sorting it out. Both Mantic and CMON have had hiccups in their pledge managers (and they use a more official pledge manager program, than one they created) which I had confirmation and proof one time and another wasn't sure. Unfortunately it happens but never had an issue getting fulfilled.

I will say that apparently I didn't complete my pledge manager. I honestly thought I did and I had two pledges (my wifes and mine). However since the pledge manager is offline, I have nothing to go off but their word it wasn't completed. They are currently working through it, although I probably won't be getting everything on my list. I still don't understand if they cast in-house how this is an issue, but whatever. There are some people though who have flat out been told "sorry, but it is considered a donation". As a customer service they will send a retail version which I still don't agree is adequate.

Edit: I do want to add most pledge manager programs continually email you reminders until it is officially closed. In which case you have to email the creator and they can fix the rest of it. They also are kept online until fulfillment is complete. Even as buggy and horrible as AvP's one is, it is still accessible.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Probably written more to make people who do not fill their form to fill it than an evil plan for world dominance, people not filling their pledge survey is a major issue for many kickstarters many creators have complained that they have people not filled their survey up two two years ago.

Exactly. If a person fails to fill in their pledge manager in time then their money is considered as just a donation. This is the case for every kickstarter I have ever been involved in. The reason for filling in the pledge manager on time is so the company can then appropriately created the required amount of rewards. So really it is the backer's own fault for not fulfilling the requirement in order to claim the reward for backing.

 dr_ether wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Probably written more to make people who do not fill their form to fill it than an evil plan for world dominance, people not filling their pledge survey is a major issue for many kickstarters many creators have complained that they have people not filled their survey up two two years ago.

Exactly. If a person fails to fill in their pledge manager in time then their money is considered as just a donation. This is the case for every kickstarter I have ever been involved in. The reason for filling in the pledge manager on time is so the company can then appropriately created the required amount of rewards. So really it is the backer's own fault for not fulfilling the requirement in order to claim the reward for backing.

Uhm no, that is absolute nonsense. You have seemingly been involved in some dodgy ass kickstarters.

As DS points out, the pledge manager is 'not' a part of the Kickstarter. It is simply a tool to aid the creator.

I have never heard of anyone using 'You didn't fill in the pledge manager' to steal somebody's pledge before. I hope it isn't as widespread as you seem to claim and somehow I've missed this ridiculously dodgy practice spreading through the industry.

Edit -

Sorry DS, I just remembered who you were. They are giving 'you' the run around, of all people? That's just mental.

 Artemis Black wrote:

Uhm no, that is absolute nonsense. You have seemingly been involved in some dodgy ass kickstarters.

As DS points out, the pledge manager is 'not' a part of the Kickstarter. It is simply a tool to aid the creator.

I have never heard of anyone using 'You didn't fill in the pledge manager' to steal some donation before. I hope it isn't as widespread as you seem to claim and somehow I've missed this ridiculously dodgy practice spreading through the industry.

Agreed!

I've been involved in...WAY too many Kickstarters, and this type of nonsense rarely pops up.

 Artemis Black wrote:

Sorry DS, I just remembered who you were. They are giving 'you' the run around, of all people? That's just mental.

Agreed again!

That SCALE75 is doing this to anyone is...odd.

That they're doing it to DS shows that they really are asleep at the wheel on this one.

 Alpharius wrote:
That SCALE75 is doing this to anyone is...odd.

Unfortunately it is probably to them losing Jorge Lopez. He was usually who I dealt with at Scale 75 and with his unfortunate accident resulting in his death, the project and company hasn't been the same in my opinion. I honestly don't know if part is due to culture and translation as well... which did plague the first campaign.

I know at least three people who have been told they are SOL though and only being sent a retail version (they at least only had basic pledges). I am still waiting to see what the results end up being as they said they are working on getting me things and what can't be 'found' can be turned into value into their store (although Fallen Frontiers is all I really wanted). I'm not being told you are out of luck but it also isn't what I would consider the best option, but at least it isn't the worst. I will say it probably effects my feelings though in the future on how I interact with this game.

Reading the comments lately in the KS though... it doesn't look good for some.

I am not sure it is an odd behaviour I have heard from creators that use the pledge manager as the survey since kickstarter survey is so bad (as odd as it may be, I mean KS should do their best to help creators but... ) and have heard quite a few stories from creators of backers remembering they did not complete their survey two years after the delivery time is done and there is nothing for them to send from the exclusives.

I am not sure what percentage of creators actually make a statement like that, it sure is a bad PR and for me coming a bit too soon, if they did not send reminders its bad form from them.

Will it impact after KS sales? I don't know.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I am not sure it is an odd behaviour I have heard from creators that use the pledge manager as the survey since kickstarter survey is so bad (as odd as it may be, I mean KS should do their best to help creators but... ) and have heard quite a few stories from creators of backers remembering they did not complete their survey two years after the delivery time is done and there is nothing for them to send from the exclusives.

I am not sure what percentage of creators actually make a statement like that, it sure is a bad PR and for me coming a bit too soon, if they did not send reminders its bad form from them.

Will it impact after KS sales? I don't know.

Will stealing people's pledges affect their PR and sales? I'm gonna go with yes

Everyone's payment was taken at the end of the KS, everyone will have a record of what was paid. The KS is still there for everyone to see. It takes 5 minutes to check someone's claim and then work out with them what they want for the money they paid and charge them shipping etc.

If they are claiming to have only made the exact amount of KS boxsets for the pledge manager numbers then they are idiots or lying. What were they going to do if one was damaged or lost in the mail? And even if they are idiots and don't have any spare actual boxsets they should be going out of their way to fix such problems, these people funded their damn game. They 'owe' them.

I'm pretty sure if Games Workshop did something like this people would be up in fething arms.

"Hey, that thing you paid us for a couple years ago, well you didn't fill in some arbitrary questionnaire we sent out 9 months after you paid for it so we're just stealing your money. Have a good day"

I would go absolutely mental if someone tried that on me.

@Arty

I know that you like to have a pop at scale every so often, and it does seem that they should be doing more to satisfy the people that, for whatever reason, did not fill out their pledge managers, but referring to the pledge manager as an "arbitrary questionnaire" is a little unfair, don't you think?

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
@Arty

I know that you like to have a pop at scale every so often, and it does seem that they should be doing more to satisfy the people that, for whatever reason, did not fill out their pledge managers, but referring to the pledge manager as an "arbitrary questionnaire" is a little unfair, don't you think?

No, it is one. Pledge managers are not part of the Kickstarter system, they use their own survey.

They might have become associated with Kickstarters because so many people use them but despite being so useful they are still just arbitrary. You certainly can't just add terms and conditions to the already completed Kickstarter in them.

Essentially it is an order form, so the creator can see what items the "customer" wants.

In that respect it is very much not arbitrary, unless you think that pledgers would be happy receiving any random figures that add up to their pledge total?

I'm saying that your analogy was unfair.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Essentially it is an order form, so the creator can see what items the "customer" wants.

In that respect it is very much not arbitrary, unless you think that pledgers would be happy receiving any random figures that add up to their pledge total?

I'm saying that your analogy was unfair.

I know what a pledge manager is That's irrelevant, they are 'not' part of the Kickstarter process therefore they are arbitrary. Companies don't have to use them, some don't. You can fill one in by writing the word fish a hundred times if for some reason you want to, as long as you email the Kickstarter creator with your details then you should get what you pledged for. Kickstarter pledges don't come with the caveat 'you also have to fill in this form we're going to send you in 9 months that has nothing to do with Kickstarter itself or you get nothing'.

These people are clearly in contact with the company, they have been replied to. They gave the company money for something, They should get that something.

It's not complicated.

 Artemis Black wrote:


I know what a pledge manager is

That's good to know, as a backer of the Hasslefree KS I was getting a little concerned

 Artemis Black wrote:
That's irrelevant, they are 'not' part of the Kickstarter process therefore they are arbitrary. Companies don't have to use them, some don't. You can fill one in by writing the word fish a hundred times if for some reason you want to, as long as you email the Kickstarter creator with your details then you should get what you pledged for. Kickstarter pledges don't come with the caveat 'you also have to fill in this form we're going to send you in 9 months that has nothing to do with Kickstarter itself or you get nothing'.

We seem to be talking about two different things. I agree with everything that you say here (except the part about the fish ), it just seems to be a semantic issue regarding how you were applying the word "arbitrary", knowing how you love an argument I think I will just leave it there.

 Artemis Black wrote:
These people are clearly in contact with the company, they have been replied to. They gave the company money for something, They should get that something.

Of course. I don't think anyone is arguing against that are they?

 Artemis Black wrote:
It's not complicated.

You can't help yourself can you?

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Artemis Black wrote:
These people are clearly in contact with the company, they have been replied to. They gave the company money for something, They should get that something.

Of course. I don't think anyone is arguing against that are they?

 Artemis Black wrote:
It's not complicated.

You can't help yourself can you?

*grin* Well you did start by saying I was being unfair - to a company that is basically using a made up technicality to steal from people, so I admit I was a bit on the 'what the feth' side of my sarcasm


Edit - I keep forgetting you can't swear here

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
...have heard quite a few stories from creators of backers remembering they did not complete their survey two years after the delivery time is done and there is nothing for them to send from the exclusives.

Two years after delivery and fulfillment of a KS is completely different than 30 days after they just finished fulfillment. When the first response was all pledges have been sent, just give it a few weeks and wait. Two years later that is definitely an issue with with the backer not following up in a timely manner and completely forgetting about it.

I had an issue with one of Mantic's where my order was completely lost due to a database issue. The way it was explained was the list was exported from backerkit but somehow when they transferred it to fulfillment it was misplaced. That was within 30 days of me noticing everyone was receiving their stuff but I was not. With CMoN I didn't notice it until months later, as there were multiple CMoN KS going on. I noticed others with product and hadn't realized that they were fulfilling. I was able to check login into my pledge manager to see what I was expecting and status. That was when I found out that for whatever reason there was a $4.00 balance for shipping that somehow didn't get charged. I received no notification. It was most likely after a Con when I had to have my credit cards replaced. I fixed it, emailed them and they said no problem (because most people plan for lost products, replacements and typically create an excess of 5-15%.

 Artemis Black wrote:
If they are claiming to have only made the exact amount of KS boxsets for the pledge manager numbers...

From what I've seen and been told, they ordered enough "Exclusive" boxes as pledges. Those that added additional pledges to their order, only received one actual "Exclusive" box, the rest of the pledges were intact but just only one box. I already said I didn't care about the box. The printing and boxes were created out of house. We were lead to believe that casting is done in-house so in terms of miniatures and even exclusive (since this is resin and not plastic), creating what they need isn't that difficult.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Essentially it is an order form, so the creator can see what items the "customer" wants.

In that respect it is very much not arbitrary, unless you think that pledgers would be happy receiving any random figures that add up to their pledge total?

Technically speaking the "Kickstarter survey" is the actual order form. If you notice when other companies do a KS, even those that use pledge managers, they send a survey. The survey is what is used to determine manufacturing as it tends to start way before the PM is completed and closed. That is why when you get a Kickstarter survey from CMoN, it asks what you plan on purchasing but also includes "You not tied down to purchase, this is just so they know roughly to produce".

Even Amazon just as a retail example, says when you utilize them that you plan for 5-10% of extra stock. That stock is used to fulfill damaged goods, mis-shipped, etc. It is completely unheard of to count on 100% accuracy. Just recently Antenocitis Workshop has had to pull retail sales to the US due to male fraud issue. It won't effect the delivery of their KS, but it does effect their retail end and web orders.

I'll give another example. You go to the Furniture and Mattress store to purchase something. You look at the products they offer, pick something out and pay for it. They let you know they'll contact you to facilitate delivery later. That is a KS. You saw a product, promise and had a pledge outlined which you purchased. They already roughly know what I want. (If my money was used for the order, then there should be 2 "extra" boxes. If it wasn't then they should refund it.) Now you wonder why you haven't been contacted in 30 days. You call the store and they say, "Sorry. We left a voicemail mailed out a statement saying if you didn't respond, your money was a donation. Since you didn't respond we had no idea how to delivery it. Sorry".

That statement sounds ridiculous because it puts responsibility and blame solely on a customer, their customer. It is just as bad as AvP Kickstarter where they state, close your pledge managers or we can send. It isn't like they don't have people's emails and in some cases phone numbers. It isn't like they don't have a website (Kickstarter) which gives them direct access to their customers. It is their responsibility to say, "Hey we noticed this is done or completed. We noticed that this hasn't been completed. Can we get your info, etc". It would be completely different situation if they had no way to contact someone but they do. The call from the Furniture store should be, "Sorry we've been trying to get a hold of you and haven't. We just need to confirm that you ordered X,Y and your address for delivery. Great! We'll get that out to you by Z.".

To go a bit further, I'll be quoting and referring direct from Kickstarter.

Reference Link: Accountability on Kickstarter
Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Can Kickstarter refund the money if a project is unable to fulfill?

What is Kickstarter doing about fulfillment?
Reference Link: Backer Questions
How will project creators get my info to deliver rewards?
How can I view or change my survey responses?
I haven't gotten my reward yet. What do I do?
Reference Link: Terms of Use
How Projects Work

 Dark Severance wrote:

 Artemis Black wrote:
If they are claiming to have only made the exact amount of KS boxsets for the pledge manager numbers...

From what I've seen and been told, they ordered enough "Exclusive" boxes as pledges. Those that added additional pledges to their order, only received one actual "Exclusive" box, the rest of the pledges were intact but just only one box. I already said I didn't care about the box. The printing and boxes were created out of house. We were lead to believe that casting is done in-house so in terms of miniatures and even exclusive (since this is resin and not plastic), creating what they need isn't that difficult.

Indeed. And even if it were difficult, you work with the backer to get them whatever you can. Writing in your own 'get out of responsibility free' card is pretty damn shady. Blocking the people you're trying to wave off is just as shady.

( I also had a nose at the 'supporters group' and people seem fine with it. I can only assume FF have laced their pledges with some kind of drug Weirdest group of supporters I've seen yet. )

@Darkseverance;

I understand your point of view entirely, for the avoidance of any doubt I very much hope that you will receive all that you pledged for in a timely fashion. I would be feeling a bit sick if I was in your position.

 Artemis Black wrote:


( I also had a nose at the 'supporters group' and people seem fine with it. I can only assume FF have laced their pledges with some kind of drug Weirdest group of supporters I've seen yet. )

Where is this "supporters group"? It sounds wonderful, maybe I should join?

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
@Darkseverance;

I understand your point of view entirely, for the avoidance of any doubt I very much hope that you will receive all that you pledged for in a timely fashion. I would be feeling a bit sick if I was in your position.

 Artemis Black wrote:


( I also had a nose at the 'supporters group' and people seem fine with it. I can only assume FF have laced their pledges with some kind of drug Weirdest group of supporters I've seen yet. )

Where is this "supporters group"? It sounds wonderful, maybe I should join?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/fallenfrotiersSS/permalink/1765960153616697/

Enjoy (ignore the fact they misspelled frontiers and though SS would be a good addition to the url )

 Dark Severance wrote:
Two years after delivery and fulfillment of a KS is completely different than 30 days after they just finished fulfillment. When the first response was all pledges have been sent, just give it a few weeks and wait. Two years later that is definitely an issue with with the backer not following up in a timely manner and completely forgetting about it.

I had an issue with one of Mantic's where my order was completely lost due to a database issue. The way it was explained was the list was exported from backerkit but somehow when they transferred it to fulfillment it was misplaced. That was within 30 days of me noticing everyone was receiving their stuff but I was not. With CMoN I didn't notice it until months later, as there were multiple CMoN KS going on. I noticed others with product and hadn't realized that they were fulfilling. I was able to check login into my pledge manager to see what I was expecting and status. That was when I found out that for whatever reason there was a $4.00 balance for shipping that somehow didn't get charged. I received no notification. It was most likely after a Con when I had to have my credit cards replaced. I fixed it, emailed them and they said no problem (because most people plan for lost products, replacements and typically create an excess of 5-15%.

I am sure we all agree that it is too short of a notice, I am amazed it is not simply a warning shot aimed to motivate people to finally fill their form and the fact they did not sent emails to remind people is quite bad on their part, from the two companies you mention Mantic still owns me miscasts missing models and a dreadball pitch from their first dreadball kickstarter (personally I have stopped caring, but still ask about them from time to time), CMON needed a year to respond to my emails but send most of the missing stuff n the end (ok a 3D door is still missing but I will not be bothered by it).

@Artemis Black
I am not sure about it, it should, but I am not entirely sure it will, time will tell if it will have a significant impact or be a minor thing.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I am sure we all agree that it is too short of a notice, I am amazed it is not simply a warning shot aimed to motivate people to finally fill their form and the fact they did not sent emails to remind people is quite bad on their part...

Yeah it definitely wasn't a warning, that is the default answer that is the fallback. But again the bigger issue for me is since their pledge manager was taken down, no one has a way to verify anything.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
Mantic still owns me miscasts missing models and a dreadball pitch from their first dreadball kickstarter (personally I have stopped caring, but still ask about them from time to time), CMON needed a year to respond to my emails but send most of the missing stuff n the end (ok a 3D door is still missing but I will not be bothered by it).

Mantic I resolved my issues by emailing them from their website via their customer service form. It was the only way to get a response and resolution as other methods didn't get a response. With CMoN I did the same thing. I make sure that when I reply, the subject line is changed so they don't "accidentally" thread as a previous email which does contribute to a lot of mail not being responded to in most companies.

 Artemis Black wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
@Darkseverance;

I understand your point of view entirely, for the avoidance of any doubt I very much hope that you will receive all that you pledged for in a timely fashion. I would be feeling a bit sick if I was in your position.

 Artemis Black wrote:


( I also had a nose at the 'supporters group' and people seem fine with it. I can only assume FF have laced their pledges with some kind of drug Weirdest group of supporters I've seen yet. )

Where is this "supporters group"? It sounds wonderful, maybe I should join?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/fallenfrotiersSS/permalink/1765960153616697/

Enjoy (ignore the fact they misspelled frontiers and though SS would be a good addition to the url )

I genuinely only just worked out this is a different guy to the BGG one. It didn't click late last night that the BGG guy was French and the group guy is clearly a yank (I'm recovering from the flu is my true but probably not relevant excuse )

I recieved a tasty tax rebate and was maybe going to go for the starter set, however with this donation nonsense and the somewhat rabid fans (which is why I ultimately ended up just leaving a token dollar pledge) I think I'll be giving everything Scale 75 does a wide berth until they get their act together.

Hmm,

I wonder if they junked the masters/moulds of anything labelled KS exclusive?

I've known some companies that have done so

it wouldn't excuse their bad behaviour but it might explain why they'd find it really hard just to make a few more resin minis

There was certainly no indication of such during the campaign.

I think the only 'exclusive' thing was a rather silly box that we all got shipped - you know, the thing most people wouldn't care about. At all.

There were a few KS exclusives IIRC, a version of the Ares character Bitsie holding two pistols, one of the Riffs characters too.

I think that there may have been one or two more?


Oh, and the painting DVD too