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Hi all,
I have been working on a 1500pt list for my new Space Shark army, and I have to give huge credit to Dakka user Paradigm for all his help, and patience with my stupid questions
All constructive critique is appreciated!

EDIT: Hey guys, so I now have 3 versions of my list and i cannot decide on which to use :(
v1 = uses Snipers. I like the models, but I am not a fan of having Snipers instead of more in-your-face action!
v2 = swapped snipers for 5 assault marines... mmm, cost me a combi-plasma in the sternguards
v3 = got rid of an honour guard to get the sternguard combi-plasma back, 2x flamer in assault squad and a combat shield...
Help me decide please!!!

STANDARD with Snipers 1495pts

HQ Tyberos (190 pts) - grouped with the Elites #1 v1

Elites #1 (295 pts)
2 Honour Guard
1 Chapter Champion 85
+6 Honour Guard 150
1 Chapter Banner 25
Dedicated Drop Pod 35

Elites #2 (325)
9 Sternguard
1 Sternguard Sergeant
3 Combi-Melta
2 Combi-Flamer
1 Combi-Plasma
Dedicated Drop Pod

Troops #1 - Tactical Squad (205 pts)
9 Space Marines
1 Space Marine Sergeant
1 Flamer
1 Combi-Flamer (on Sergeant)
+10 CCW
Dedicated Drop Pod

Troops #2 - Tactical Squad (205 pts)
9 Space Marines
1 Space Marine Sergeant
1 Melta
1 Combi-Melta (on Sergeant)
+10 CCW
Dedicated Drop Pod

Troops #3 - Tactical Squad (205 pts)
9 Space Marines
1 Space Marine Sergeant
1 Plasma
1 Combi-Plasma (on Sergeant)
+10 CCW
Dedicated Drop Pod

Troops #4 (70 pts)
4 Scouts
1 Scout Sergeant
5 Camo cloaks
5 sniper rifle


--------------------------------------------------

STANDARD with Assault 1500pts (version 2)

HQ Tyberos (190 pts) - grouped with the Elites #1

Elites #1 (295 pts)
8 Honour Guards
1 Chapter Champion
1 Chapter Banner
Dedicated Drop Pod

Elites #2 (315)
9 Sternguard
1 Sternguard Sergeant
3 Combi-Melta
2 Combi-Flamer
Dedicated Drop Pod

Troops #1 - Tactical Squad (205 pts)
9 Space Marines
1 Space Marine Sergeant
1 Flamer
1 Combi-Flamer (on Sergeant)
+10 CCW
Dedicated Drop Pod

Troops #2 - Tactical Squad (205 pts)
9 Space Marines
1 Space Marine Sergeant
1 Melta
1 Combi-Melta (on Sergeant)
+10 CCW
Dedicated Drop Pod

Troops #3 - Tactical Squad (205 pts)
9 Space Marines
1 Space Marine Sergeant
1 Plasma
1 Combi-Plasma (on Sergeant)
+10 CCW
Dedicated Drop Pod

FAST #1 - Assault Squad (85 pts)
4 Space Marines
1 Space Marine Sergeant

--------------------------------------------------

STANDARD with Assault 1500pts (version 3)

HQ Tyberos (190 pts) - grouped with the Elites #1

Elites #1 (270 pts)
7 Honour Guards
1 Chapter Champion
1 Chapter Banner
Dedicated Drop Pod

Elites #2 (325)
9 Sternguard
1 Sternguard Sergeant
3 Combi-Melta
2 Combi-Flamer
1 Combi-Plasma
Dedicated Drop Pod

Troops #1 - Tactical Squad (205 pts)
9 Space Marines
1 Space Marine Sergeant
1 Flamer
1 Combi-Flamer (on Sergeant)
+10 CCW
Dedicated Drop Pod

Troops #2 - Tactical Squad (205 pts)
9 Space Marines
1 Space Marine Sergeant
1 Melta
1 Combi-Melta (on Sergeant)
+10 CCW
Dedicated Drop Pod

Troops #3 - Tactical Squad (205 pts)
9 Space Marines
1 Space Marine Sergeant
1 Plasma
1 Combi-Plasma (on Sergeant)
+10 CCW
Dedicated Drop Pod

FAST #1 - Assault Squad (100 pts)
4 Space Marines
1 Space Marine Sergeant
2 Flamer
1 Combat Shield (on Sergeant)

Just checking on the points here before I give any feedback, but wouldn't a full tac squad in pod, all with CCWs from your traits, be +10 points above a normal squad? So a normal 10 man squad in pod with melta and combi-melta is 195... so if they all have an additional CCW, it's 205. Unless you meant +1 CCW?

I saw your post in the questions section, and basically think of it like this... for +1 point a marine, you get 2 CC attacks. You have to pay for each model that you want to have an additional weapon.

That being said, feedback I'd have would be mainly that you don't have a way of taking out fliers. I'd look into some Stormtalons or Stormraven.

On the Sternguard, I would dedicate them to taking out MC and give them all the same type of combi, like all combi-plasmas for instance. The flamers don't do anything better than their special ammo, and unless you plan on combat squadding them (where half shoot melta, half shoot at infantry) pair them all up with the same weapons. If you are planning on doing that, take advantage of the heavy flamers they can take with the AP4 being pretty useful.

Also, you should give Tyberos a try with a close combat terminator squad with lightning claws... that's one nasty troop killing unit that has Objective Secured!

Hey Clincher,
First of all thanks for responding! I don't really like the LC termies, I like shooting power too

As for the tac squad... you're right... damn it... let me recalculate this, i made a mistake somewhere... one sec I will update the list. EDIT: FIXED.

The Combis are certainly debatable. I suggested the split simply because I figured that the 2 Combi-flamers and the extra CCW, you can either split and flame on the drop while using the melta for anti-tank, or you can save the flamers and do a 2-template burn and charge (and with the extra CCW they charge like Vanguard Vets) which would fit the aggressive style of the army and give a nice assault unit. It's not a role Sternguard usually fill, but with the extra CCW, I think that if a charge comes up, they can more than handle themselves.

I think a lot of it depends on what you're up against. Versus Nids or maybe Eldar where you'll be seeing MCs, combi-plasmas will wreck them, but against a lot of other armies, having the ability to attack 2 target profiles on the drop (and maybe even to pop a transport and then flame the guys inside) is handy.

 Paradigm wrote:
The Combis are certainly debatable. I suggested the split simply because I figured that the 2 Combi-flamers and the extra CCW, you can either split and flame on the drop while using the melta for anti-tank, or you can save the flamers and do a 2-template burn and charge (and with the extra CCW they charge like Vanguard Vets) which would fit the aggressive style of the army and give a nice assault unit. It's not a role Sternguard usually fill, but with the extra CCW, I think that if a charge comes up, they can more than handle themselves.

I think a lot of it depends on what you're up against. Versus Nids or maybe Eldar where you'll be seeing MCs, combi-plasmas will wreck them, but against a lot of other armies, having the ability to attack 2 target profiles on the drop (and maybe even to pop a transport and then flame the guys inside) is handy.

So essentially I think I am going to keep it as a 3-2 split, but looks like I need to magnetize these and have 5 combi-plasma ready

Definitely magnetise the combis as and when you can, you never know when you might want a change. Obviously you can't change just before a game, but there's plenty of reason to change between games and lists.

 Paradigm wrote:
Definitely magnetise the combis as and when you can, you never know when you might want a change. Obviously you can't change just before a game, but there's plenty of reason to change between games and lists.

thanks!
Now I have to order the FW combi set... great super shipping here I come! lol

Check out the Combined Rifles set by these guys:
http://www.pdcgaming.co.uk/shop-

Dirt cheap combis, way less than FW, I think.

 Paradigm wrote:
Check out the Combined Rifles set by these guys:
http://www.pdcgaming.co.uk/shop-

Dirt cheap combis, way less than FW, I think.

yeah those are about half the price, but cant really see the weapons in that pic :(

No LC Termies? Emphasis on shooting? You sure these are Carcharodons?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
No LC Termies? Emphasis on shooting? You sure these are Carcharodons?

They all have their CCW and drop pods to make sure they get close and bloody

I just am not a fan of the LC termy squad :(

I hate to be the guy to point this out, but only your tactical squads can purchase additional CCW, not Sternguard. As far as the honour guard vs CC Terms with LC I have used both with by Carcharadons and its pretty much a personal preference. One thing about Tyboros (who is 195pts) that I have found out the hard way is that being the only chapter master with a 5++ really hurts in combat. So pick your battles carefully with him as he has a tendency to die... especially when you drop him in a pod and he has no way to charge for a turn. I have found that a LRR or LRC is the best way to transport him into combat... but I will admit that I have dropped him from a pod many many times.

And on a final note, make sure you get him into the fight against the enemy quickly, as its not until he kills a unit that the rest of your army gets strength 5 with their rage.

 jose kantor wrote:
I hate to be the guy to point this out, but only your tactical squads can purchase additional CCW, not Sternguard. As far as the honour guard vs CC Terms with LC I have used both with by Carcharadons and its pretty much a personal preference. One thing about Tyboros (who is 195pts) that I have found out the hard way is that being the only chapter master with a 5++ really hurts in combat. So pick your battles carefully with him as he has a tendency to die... especially when you drop him in a pod and he has no way to charge for a turn. I have found that a LRR or LRC is the best way to transport him into combat... but I will admit that I have dropped him from a pod many many times.

And on a final note, make sure you get him into the fight against the enemy quickly, as its not until he kills a unit that the rest of your army gets strength 5 with their rage.

Tyberos is 190pt.

Also, yea, I hate that I missed the CCWs on the Sternguard when I was looking at this list the first go-round. It does say specifically Tacticals in the FW rules.

And you can do LoS! rolls for Tyberos on a 2+, so that helps curb that 5++ drawback.

Ahh Don't know where I got 195 from. As far as the LOS goes it's not all that helpful in a challenge.

 jose kantor wrote:
Ahh Don't know where I got 195 from. As far as the LOS goes it's not all that helpful in a challenge.

Well, if they have an AP2 or AP1 weapon or anything that throws it to 5++, just sacrifice the Sarge and hope you can mop up the enemy squad, so you can roll into that bad dude with them next round.

thanks for the feedback guys, can't believe I missed that CCW tactical rule too lol
OK, well I have 5 pts left in the list then (editing the first post now).

As for Tyberos, yes I want him to kill quickly - but I am confused what you guys mean by 5+ ? I see he is in termy armour, and has a regular Sv of 2+ ?

The 5+ is his invulnerable save, he still has the 2+ armour; most Chapter Masters/Captains have an Iron Halo giving them a 4+ invulnerable, Tyberos doesn't have this for some reason (not entirely sure why).

Ahh ok yeah I see your point... That's too bad :(
I'll just have to roll some sexy 5s and 6s lol

 Paradigm wrote:
The 5+ is his invulnerable save, he still has the 2+ armour; most Chapter Masters/Captains have an Iron Halo giving them a 4+ invulnerable, Tyberos doesn't have this for some reason (not entirely sure why).

Yea, the terminology is usually like 2+/5++, so the dual +'s indicate it is an invuln. Just internet shorthand.

As for the Halo, that is just because FW forgot. Hopefully, when they do get to updating these rules for 7th, he will inherit one. I mean, the dude is a Chapter Master! I would think he would have one.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Yea, the terminology is usually like 2+/5++, so the dual +'s indicate it is an invuln. Just internet shorthand.

As for the Halo, that is just because FW forgot. Hopefully, when they do get to updating these rules for 7th, he will inherit one. I mean, the dude is a Chapter Master! I would think he would have one.

This is what I am hoping

So, any other comments on the list? I am planning on starting my hunting for bits to make this army this week (as much bit bashing as humanly possible)

I know I brought it up before, but Tyberos is best for slaughtering squads of infantry to enable the S5 rage stuff for the other units, and in a LRR he's just a monster problem to deal with... especially if you're going after troops that can't kill him... that means the enemy has to pull their heavy things away from your other threats to follow up with him. Just some food for thought, and getting that kill quickly is also why I like to put him with LC Terminators.. basically helps guarantee a one turn squad wipe on an infantry unit.

xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:
I know I brought it up before, but Tyberos is best for slaughtering squads of infantry to enable the S5 rage stuff for the other units, and in a LRR he's just a monster problem to deal with... especially if you're going after troops that can't kill him... that means the enemy has to pull their heavy things away from your other threats to follow up with him. Just some food for thought, and getting that kill quickly is also why I like to put him with LC Terminators.. basically helps guarantee a one turn squad wipe on an infantry unit.

The LC Termies with Tyberos in a Redeemer is one thing I am looking to put on the table myself. I don't think he will hold up well in a squad that can't take a licking and keep on ticking.

Otherwise, you might as well not bother with Tyberos at all - you can just choose Carcharodons Chapter Tactics and roll with a custom Captain or Chapter Master or some such.

xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:
I know I brought it up before, but Tyberos is best for slaughtering squads of infantry to enable the S5 rage stuff for the other units, and in a LRR he's just a monster problem to deal with... especially if you're going after troops that can't kill him... that means the enemy has to pull their heavy things away from your other threats to follow up with him. Just some food for thought, and getting that kill quickly is also why I like to put him with LC Terminators.. basically helps guarantee a one turn squad wipe on an infantry unit.

I'm still on the side of the Honour Guard here. First, they don't require a 250 point transport just to get into combat as fast (a pod will still be T2 combat if you play it right). Second, the damage output may be comparable, but the Honour Guard have a higher maximum kill threshold, and crucially, Sweeping Advances can be made by the Honour Guard, so you've actually got more chance of a 1-turn wipeout. The HG have the same save and a higher wound count, so are more durable except against AP2, and their leader is much more dangerous in challenges (Allowing Tyberos to mulch grunts).

Also, they're now scoring, the chance to take LC termies as troops is somewhat less useful.

Scoring the HG may be, but the LC Termies would be Objective Secured, as would their transport (if you run a Land Raider, that is awesome).

Obviously, at this point, he has a lot of good input. I am now curious to see how he does on the table!

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Scoring the HG may be, but the LC Termies would be Objective Secured, as would their transport (if you run a Land Raider, that is awesome).

Obviously, at this point, he has a lot of good input. I am now curious to see how he does on the table!

Yes I love all this input and thanks everyone
I think I am going to stick with the HG for now, also much much more on budget, and let you know

Hey all,
Made a small update: made one of the tactical squads plasma/combi-plasma

Thanks,
Jon

Hey guys, just updated my post with 3 versions of my list, help me pick one? :(

Still no Termies?! SHAME!

I like the 3rd one best, with a couple of tweaks. I don't think you need the Combat Shield at all, it's going to save you one in 6 hits, and as you only have one wound, fail and you lose the guy anyway. It's just not worst the cost.

I'd use the points to put another combi-plasma on the Sternguard, or if you really want to upgrade the Assault Marines. buy a Power Weapon for the sergeant.

em_en_oh_pee wrote:Still no Termies?! SHAME!

I know I know... but I just don't like the CC termies

Paradigm wrote:I like the 3rd one best, with a couple of tweaks. I don't think you need the Combat Shield at all, it's going to save you one in 6 hits, and as you only have one wound, fail and you lose the guy anyway. It's just not worst the cost.
I'd use the points to put another combi-plasma on the Sternguard, or if you really want to upgrade the Assault Marines. buy a Power Weapon for the sergeant.

Trust me, I wanted to get another combi-plasma on the sternguards (man I love combi weps), but taking the shield off only gives me 5 pts... not enough for another combi (which requires 10 pts)
The power weapon for sergeant would actually require 15 pts...

I took the combat shield cause I had 5 pts leftover... I agree it's crap, but not sure what else to take for 5 pts