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The question is - how do passengers react to their transport jinking - as I see, the rule and its effect applies only to models with this rule (transports); and passengers do not have this rule - so they are not forced to snap shot.
Am I right?

 Vexler wrote:
The question is - how do passengers react to their transport jinking - as I see, the rule and its effect applies only to models with this rule (transports); and passengers do not have this rule - so they are not forced to snap shot.
Am I right?

As far as I can tell, that is correct.

This is correct. Its one of the things making Ghost Arks really good right now.

Oh wow I hadn't even considered the Ghost Ark.

Keep in mind, though, that template weapons now are a hard counter to open-topped transports. If they are in range.

Yeah but wouldn't the Ghost Ark repair any Necron Warriors that are embarked and died to a flamer?

 Sigvatr wrote:
Keep in mind, though, that template weapons now are a hard counter to open-topped transports. If they are in range.

d6 Wounds to a unit hardly qualifies as a hard counter in my book.

 Bludbaff wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Keep in mind, though, that template weapons now are a hard counter to open-topped transports. If they are in range.

d6 Wounds to a unit hardly qualifies as a hard counter in my book.

Ever seen what happens to 3 Trueborn in a Venom when some idiot marine comes out a drop pod and kills them all with no saves allowed?

I would call that a hard counter...

Dark Eldar open tops fear no flamers. You won't be getting in range of one without a Heldrake.

Erm...

> Crones
> Marines in Drop Pods or a Storm Raven
> Terminators Deep Striking
> Dreads in Drop Pods or a Storm Raven
> D-Scythes dropping out the back of a Wave Serpent and Battle Focusing up to you.
> Deep Striking Wracks
> Tyranid Thorax Weapons
> Hellhounds
> Devil Dogs
> Tyrannofex Torrent Weapon


to name but a few...!

> Shunting Dreadknight
>Shunting Interceptors (with TWO incinerators!)

Someone keep this list going! How many flamers can catch a DE transport? It looks like it's a lot!

Crisis Suits can be added to the list.
Sure, Tau don't usually go for the drop and burn tactic but they can easily bring 8 flamers per Unit doing so.

Anything with access to Promethium Pipes.

I've been playing ghost arks with flamers and eldritch lances inside recently and thought they had to snap fire.

I have 4 harbingers of despair in one and 4 harbingers of destruction in another. I run imotekh for night fighting and usually fly a command barge infront of the ghost ark so that the enemy can't see the front facing to confer +1 cover save to the ghost arks.

Are you really telling me that I can have a 2+ jink save (right now I've been using the 5+ obscured + 1 NF + 1 for command barge obscuring front facing for a 3+) on my ghost arks and the passengers armed with str8 ap 1 flamers and str 8 ap 2 assault 1 weapons do not need to snap fire?

sonicaucie wrote:
I've been playing ghost arks with flamers and eldritch lances inside recently and thought they had to snap fire.

I have 4 harbingers of despair in one and 4 harbingers of destruction in another. I run imotekh for night fighting and usually fly a command barge infront of the ghost ark so that the enemy can't see the front facing to confer +1 cover save to the ghost arks.

Are you really telling me that I can have a 2+ jink save (right now I've been using the 5+ obscured + 1 NF + 1 for command barge obscuring front facing for a 3+) on my ghost arks and the passengers armed with str8 ap 1 flamers and str 8 ap 2 assault 1 weapons do not need to snap fire?

It is highly unlikely that 100% of the Ghost Ark is covered by the CCB to give it a bonus to its save. Typically it will be a 3+ Jink

Fragile wrote:

sonicaucie wrote:
I've been playing ghost arks with flamers and eldritch lances inside recently and thought they had to snap fire.

I have 4 harbingers of despair in one and 4 harbingers of destruction in another. I run imotekh for night fighting and usually fly a command barge infront of the ghost ark so that the enemy can't see the front facing to confer +1 cover save to the ghost arks.

Are you really telling me that I can have a 2+ jink save (right now I've been using the 5+ obscured + 1 NF + 1 for command barge obscuring front facing for a 3+) on my ghost arks and the passengers armed with str8 ap 1 flamers and str 8 ap 2 assault 1 weapons do not need to snap fire?

It is highly unlikely that 100% of the Ghost Ark is covered by the CCB to give it a bonus to its save. Typically it will be a 3+ Jink

It's usually very easy to maneuver the two, given how narrow the ghost ark is, such that the front facing's arc is towards the enemy but completely obscured by the CCB. Thus it gets +1 from them being forced to shoot at the side armor and a 3+ jink save turns into 2+.

Hive Tyrants can also take template weapons. Coupled with Crones makes DE skimmer spam much more pleasant for us.

Edit ; oops already mentioned thorax weapons as a whole.

Deamons, flamers of tzeench torrent flamer on soul grinders.

back on topic i cant find anything to say jinking effects passengers.

> Death and Despair squads in a Nightscythe
> Death and Despair squads using Veil
> Land Speeder Storms
> Onslaughting Tfex?
> DE stuff coming out of a WWP
> DSing Scions
> Any AM squad with a template weapon in a Valkyrie
> Bike mounted flamers of all varieties.

I'm sure there's more.


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Daemon Flaming Chariot of burny death.

Don't know why I didn't think about it while I was wondering over Tau:
Farsight-Star would bring 18 Flamers and ensured placement.

 Bludbaff wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Keep in mind, though, that template weapons now are a hard counter to open-topped transports. If they are in range.

d6 Wounds to a unit hardly qualifies as a hard counter in my book.

The price of said trueborn+special weapons with Venom transport speaks for itself in response to this. Especially compared to the price of 5 SM in a drop pod with a single flamer.

bikernobs with kombi-skorchas
burnas in battlewagons or stolen trukks
nobs in a trukk with kombi skorchas
stompas with flamebelchas for S6 AP3 hellstorm templates after a 12" move, dodge that!

sonicaucie wrote:
I've been playing ghost arks with flamers and eldritch lances inside recently and thought they had to snap fire.

I have 4 harbingers of despair in one and 4 harbingers of destruction in another. I run imotekh for night fighting and usually fly a command barge infront of the ghost ark so that the enemy can't see the front facing to confer +1 cover save to the ghost arks.

Are you really telling me that I can have a 2+ jink save (right now I've been using the 5+ obscured + 1 NF + 1 for command barge obscuring front facing for a 3+) on my ghost arks and the passengers armed with str8 ap 1 flamers and str 8 ap 2 assault 1 weapons do not need to snap fire?

it's highly unlikely that the entire of the front facing will be obscured by a CCB. the barge has too many holes and spindly bits, if any part of the ghost arcs front can be seen, even a little bit, it's not getting +1. the bonus is only really do-able from landraiders, monoliths or brick walls.

Super heavies of course!

> Transcedent C'tan 18" move and 2 D weapon flamers with Hellstrom
> Revenant Titan 36" and 2 Hellstorm flamers


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 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Bludbaff wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Keep in mind, though, that template weapons now are a hard counter to open-topped transports. If they are in range.

d6 Wounds to a unit hardly qualifies as a hard counter in my book.

The price of said trueborn+special weapons with Venom transport speaks for itself in response to this. Especially compared to the price of 5 SM in a drop pod with a single flamer.

95 points for 5 marines in a DP with 2 flamers

 FlingitNow wrote:
Super heavies of course!

> Transcedent C'tan 18" move and 2 D weapon flamers with Hellstrom
> Revenant Titan 36" and 2 Hellstorm flamers


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 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Bludbaff wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Keep in mind, though, that template weapons now are a hard counter to open-topped transports. If they are in range.

d6 Wounds to a unit hardly qualifies as a hard counter in my book.

The price of said trueborn+special weapons with Venom transport speaks for itself in response to this. Especially compared to the price of 5 SM in a drop pod with a single flamer.

95 points for 5 marines in a DP with 2 flamers

Didn't consider Assault Marheens. Hate 'em with a passion.

Still don't feel convinced that this OP's gripe is valid. So the occupants of your venoms can get hurt easily. Your tanks were too cheap before. Now they're just cheap. Big deal.

It's more the fact most flamers are ap5 which means no de units in vehicles except incubi and a few hq's will even get a save.

Considering a trueborn squad in a venom cost almost as much as 2 5 man sm squads in drop pods it stinks.


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Unless the guys inside can use the vehicles flickerfield invul...

Shingen wrote:
It's more the fact most flamers are ap5 which means no de units in vehicles except incubi and a few hq's will even get a save.

Considering a trueborn squad in a venom cost almost as much as 2 5 man sm squads in drop pods it stinks.


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Unless the guys inside can use the vehicles flickerfield invul...

Which they can't because you're never given permission to do so, at any point.

Also you mean to tell me three trueborn with three special weapons in a 65 point venom cost the same as 10 assault marines, two flamers each and a pair of drop pods?

Here's a hint: that's 190 points with free drop pods. Your trueborn do not cost 125 points.


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JinxDragon wrote:
Don't know why I didn't think about it while I was wondering over Tau:
Farsight-Star would bring 18 Flamers and ensured placement.

It's a bomb, jinx, not a star. Get it right. (Gosh)

JinxDragon wrote:
Don't know why I didn't think about it while I was wondering over Tau:
Farsight-Star would bring 18 Flamers and ensured placement.

Add target locks and they all get to roast a different target each turn too.

Here's a hint: that's 190 points with free drop pods. Your trueborn do not cost 125 points.

Blasterboat costs 173 points which is almost as much as 190 like he said. Blasterboats are still strong though.

Scipio Africanus,
I've heard so many terms for it, if I was to make one I would call it a Byte for how much it costs....