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In the rules it says no "template" weapons can make snap shots... But MiniWarGaming.com makes snap shots with the flamer! Can you do this? if so where in the rulebook does it say?

They get rules wrong.
Also, template weapons are allowed to "snap-shot" in a way, during Overwatch.
Then they're allowed to use their Wall of Fire (or something like that) to overwatch. This is still no snap-shots, and can't be used outside of overwatch

During which game did this happen? I'm betting it was during Overwatch.

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
They get rules wrong [all the time].

Added the violet text.

The miniwargaming guys get a ton of rules wrong. That is one of the reasons I stopped watching the batreps.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
They get rules wrong [all the time].

Added the violet text.

The miniwargaming guys get a ton of rules wrong. That is one of the reasons I stopped watching the batreps.

same thing with beasts of war, for that matter. Are there any batrep- producing gamer organizations out there that get 40k rules right?

 DeathReaper wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
They get rules wrong [all the time].

Added the violet text.

The miniwargaming guys get a ton of rules wrong. That is one of the reasons I stopped watching the batreps.

Have any evidence of this? I've watched all the videos from the last 7ish months and I haven't seen anything yet.

Maybe they just house rule things like a lot of people seem to do on this forum.

Also, for the op, you don't snap shot Flamer per se, but you do snapshot, just not called a snap shot. You roll a D3 to determine how many people get hit, then you calculate as normal.

People in this forum get touchy with what words you use to ask questions from what I have seen so far.

 Lobomalo wrote:

Also, for the op, you don't snap shot Flamer per se, but you do snapshot, just not called a snap shot. You roll a D3 to determine how many people get hit, then you calculate as normal.

People in this forum get touchy with what words you use to ask questions from what I have seen so far.

they don't snap shoot, ever. they Overwatch with D3 hits. other guns snapshoot for overwatch, flamers cant they instead use the wall of death rule.

not that I'm getting touchy with the words you used or anything...

 some bloke wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:

Also, for the op, you don't snap shot Flamer per se, but you do snapshot, just not called a snap shot. You roll a D3 to determine how many people get hit, then you calculate as normal.

People in this forum get touchy with what words you use to ask questions from what I have seen so far.

they don't snap shoot, ever. they Overwatch with D3 hits. other guns snapshoot for overwatch, flamers cant they instead use the wall of death rule.

not that I'm getting touchy with the words you used or anything...

Except that "technically" they do, they just follow different rules for stuff, you're harping over a name

 Lobomalo wrote:

 some bloke wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:

Also, for the op, you don't snap shot Flamer per se, but you do snapshot, just not called a snap shot. You roll a D3 to determine how many people get hit, then you calculate as normal.

People in this forum get touchy with what words you use to ask questions from what I have seen so far.

they don't snap shoot, ever. they Overwatch with D3 hits. other guns snapshoot for overwatch, flamers cant they instead use the wall of death rule.

not that I'm getting touchy with the words you used or anything...

Except that "technically" they do, they just follow different rules for stuff, you're harping over a name

*ahem*

please turn to page 173.

"Wall of Death
Template weapons can fire overwatch, even though they cannot fire snap shots."

so now the one question: Can a ftemplate weapon fire snapshots?

Dear lord, the first time someone in a tournament asks for me because of an opponent saying that he "Snapshot" flame throwers while he simply overwatched with them and called it "Snapshot", rulebooks will be thrown.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Dear lord, the first time someone in a tournament asks for me because of an opponent saying that he "Snapshot" flame throwers while he simply overwatched with them and called it "Snapshot", rulebooks will be thrown.

This right here. It's a quarrel over a word.

Except for an Overwatch it doesn't matter, but it DOES matter for other things that force snap-shots (passenger suffering from their transport's damage, shootin at Deathleaper, ...)

 Lobomalo wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Dear lord, the first time someone in a tournament asks for me because of an opponent saying that he "Snapshot" flame throwers while he simply overwatched with them and called it "Snapshot", rulebooks will be thrown.

This right here. It's a quarrel over a word.

Yes, it is. Because words matter, because different words often mean different things.

Flamers can fire in Overwatch. They do not fire snap shots.

Snap shots and Overwatch are not the same thing, any more than, say, Reserves and Deep Strike are the same thing.

 insaniak wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Dear lord, the first time someone in a tournament asks for me because of an opponent saying that he "Snapshot" flame throwers while he simply overwatched with them and called it "Snapshot", rulebooks will be thrown.

This right here. It's a quarrel over a word.

Yes, it is. Because words matter, because different words often mean different things.

Flamers can fire in Overwatch. They do not fire snap shots.

Snap shots and Overwatch are not the same thing, any more than, say, Reserves and Deep Strike are the same thing.

Do you Deep Strike from reserves? Yes, you do in fact Deep Strike from reserves. Do you bring in units from reserves that are not Deep Striking? Yes, you do in fact do this. The process from which you do a thing does not change the action you are doing.

Example: You drive your car in a direct manner to the grocery story and then back home. Example 2: You bike from your home to the grocery store and back. Both are the same action, you simply go about it in different ways.

You do not "Snap Fire" Flamers because Snap Firing requires a roll to hit and you do not roll to hit with flamers, so they have added a ruling that allows you to fire Flamers to be used while performing Overwatch. It really is an argument over a word. Here where I play, you say Snap Shot with a Flamer and everyone knows what you are talking about, we do not quibble over a word because we know what you are saying.

So in effect, it does not matter. If your opponent gives you this face, you explain to him what you are doing and reasonable players, will be fine. People who fight and complain over a word, will flip their lid, these players are best left avoided anyway in my experience.

 insaniak wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Dear lord, the first time someone in a tournament asks for me because of an opponent saying that he "Snapshot" flame throwers while he simply overwatched with them and called it "Snapshot", rulebooks will be thrown.

This right here. It's a quarrel over a word.

Yes, it is. Because words matter, because different words often mean different things.

Flamers can fire in Overwatch. They do not fire snap shots.

Snap shots and Overwatch are not the same thing, any more than, say, Reserves and Deep Strike are the same thing.

Words matter when actions fail. If someone correctly overwatches with flame throwers and says that he snapshoots them, that's fair and square.

If someone snapfires flame thrower weapons by...I don't know how...only hitting in 6s, that'd be wrong.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Dear lord, the first time someone in a tournament asks for me because of an opponent saying that he "Snapshot" flame throwers while he simply overwatched with them and called it "Snapshot", rulebooks will be thrown.

This right here. It's a quarrel over a word.

Yes, it is. Because words matter, because different words often mean different things.

Flamers can fire in Overwatch. They do not fire snap shots.

Snap shots and Overwatch are not the same thing, any more than, say, Reserves and Deep Strike are the same thing.

Words matter when actions fail. If someone correctly overwatches with flame throwers and says that he snapshoots them, that's fair and square.

If someone snapfires flame thrower weapons by...I don't know how...only hitting in 6s, that'd be wrong.

Yes. It does not matter what they say, only what they do.

 Lobomalo wrote:


Do you Deep Strike from reserves? Yes, you do in fact Deep Strike from reserves. Do you bring in units from reserves that are not Deep Striking? Yes, you do in fact do this. The process from which you do a thing does not change the action you are doing.

Example: You drive your car in a direct manner to the grocery story and then back home. Example 2: You bike from your home to the grocery store and back. Both are the same action, you simply go about it in different ways.

You do not "Snap Fire" Flamers because Snap Firing requires a roll to hit and you do not roll to hit with flamers, so they have added a ruling that allows you to fire Flamers to be used while performing Overwatch. It really is an argument over a word. Here where I play, you say Snap Shot with a Flamer and everyone knows what you are talking about, we do not quibble over a word because we know what you are saying.

So in effect, it does not matter. If your opponent gives you this face, you explain to him what you are doing and reasonable players, will be fine. People who fight and complain over a word, will flip their lid, these players are best left avoided anyway in my experience.

but in your example (car and bike), if you apply that to overwatch and snap-shots, you're basically saying bikes are cars.

saying flamers can snapfire just opens up confusion on forums, and leads to inexperienced players thinking they can snapfire their template weapons and get D3 hits.

The same as I would be incorrect if I said that you scatter 2D6" when you come on from reserves. you don't, that only happens when deepstriking. ergo, reserves and deepstriking are different. getting the word wrong is only going to confuse the people who are asking the questions.

so yes, Overwatch and Snapfire are two very different but related things.

 Lobomalo wrote:
Do you Deep Strike from reserves? Yes, you do in fact Deep Strike from reserves. Do you bring in units from reserves that are not Deep Striking? Yes, you do in fact do this. The process from which you do a thing does not change the action you are doing.

No, but referring to what you are doing by the wrong name can lead to confusion.

It's not a big deal. It is a potential source of confusion, though. It's generally going to make things easier and clearer for both players involved if they use the correct terminology.

You do not "Snap Fire" Flamers because Snap Firing requires a roll to hit and you do not roll to hit with flamers, so they have added a ruling that allows you to fire Flamers to be used while performing Overwatch.

Indeed. And that action is not Snap Firing. Hence, referring to it as a Snap Shot is incorrect.

Yes, it's an argument over a word. Why you felt the need to have that argument rather than just using the correct word in the first place is beyond me.

 insaniak wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:
Do you Deep Strike from reserves? Yes, you do in fact Deep Strike from reserves. Do you bring in units from reserves that are not Deep Striking? Yes, you do in fact do this. The process from which you do a thing does not change the action you are doing.

No, but referring to what you are doing by the wrong name can lead to confusion.

It's not a big deal. It is a potential source of confusion, though. It's generally going to make things easier and clearer for both players involved if they use the correct terminology.

You do not "Snap Fire" Flamers because Snap Firing requires a roll to hit and you do not roll to hit with flamers, so they have added a ruling that allows you to fire Flamers to be used while performing Overwatch.

Indeed. And that action is not Snap Firing. Hence, referring to it as a Snap Shot is incorrect.

Yes, it's an argument over a word. Why you felt the need to have that argument rather than just using the correct word in the first place is beyond me.

Correct is a matter of perspective. The word I use is the word used at the places I play. We know there is different word for it, we simply use one that we prefer is all. It does not make it a wrong or a right choice.

 Lobomalo wrote:
Correct is a matter of perspective.

No, it isn't. The rules say that template weapons don't fire snap shots. It is therefore incorrect to claim that template weapons fire snap shots.

The word I use is the word used at the places I play.

Good for you. Please read the 'Tenets of You Make Da Call' thread at the top of this forum, and in the future make it clear in your posts that you are making up your own terminology rather than just actually answering the rules question under discussion.

I have read the rules extensively in fact. The answer to the question is no, you do not make the "Snap Shot" with a flamer, you put into action the "Wall of Death" rule which is, in a sense an overwatch shot with a Flamer and as the rules state, any shooting in overwatch is Snap Shot so in a way, he is indeed doing a Snap Shot.

This is not my own terminology sir. This is simply understanding the mechanics of the game and not getting upset over a word choice.

 Lobomalo wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:
They get rules wrong [all the time].

Added the violet text.

The miniwargaming guys get a ton of rules wrong. That is one of the reasons I stopped watching the batreps.

Have any evidence of this? I've watched all the videos from the last 7ish months and I haven't seen anything yet.

Maybe they just house rule things like a lot of people seem to do on this forum.

Also, for the op, you don't snap shot Flamer per se, but you do snapshot, just not called a snap shot. You roll a D3 to determine how many people get hit, then you calculate as normal.

People in this forum get touchy with what words you use to ask questions from what I have seen so far.

Look for their own 'rules we got wrong' videos.
look for the videos they did for necrons where they "discussed" some of the odder issues and Matt happily announcing he can deep strike on your turn, and also get to shoot before your models in the shooting phase. Matt is a TFG.

Part of the charm of their video's is trying to find all the errors they make, then check the comments to see if you got them all

I concur with your assessment of flamers & wall of death.

 Lobomalo wrote:
I have read the rules extensively in fact. The answer to the question is no, you do not make the "Snap Shot" with a flamer, you put into action the "Wall of Death" rule which is, in a sense an overwatch shot with a Flamer and as the rules state, any shooting in overwatch is Snap Shot so in a way, he is indeed doing a Snap Shot.

Wall of Death is not Overwatch 'in a sense'. It is how template weapons perform Overwatch. It is not a Snap Shot... because as posted earlier in the thread, Template weapons can not fire Snap Shots.

It really is that simple.

If you choose to call Wall of Death a Snap Shot within your own gaming group, go for your life. But please stick to the correct terminology when addressing rules questions in this forum.

You really need to relax. My meaning is easily understood as you can see from people in this conversation. Quibbling over a word choice is pointless and doesn't serve to help those with questions which is the purpose of this forum.

I will stick to "correct" terminology if you like, but I will also use common sense when answering questions. If he wants to use Flamers in Overwatch, I tell him he can, he can call it Snap Shot or Wall of Death, either way, the answer is Yes he can.

Do you know why they made it so you have to roll a D3 when using a Flamer in Overwatch? Because you are literally Snap Firing off that Flamethrower as quickly as you can, you have no time to aim or anything, it is a snap reaction.

It is simple. It is also common sense.

 Lobomalo wrote:
Quibbling over a word choice is pointless and doesn't serve to help those with questions which is the purpose of this forum..

You realise that it was someone using incorrect terminology that spawned this particular thread in the first place, right?


Either way, we're done here. The original question has been answered, and whether or not it's a good idea to refer to rules using the names of completely different rules should never have needed a discussion in the first place.