Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Afternoon ladies and gentlemen.

Recently after taking a very very long break from the hobby i decided that i was going to reinvest and buy some new imperial guard models. Now... Because of a life long addiction to plastic an resin smack, I haven't really lost a lot of the know how associated with modelling ability, kit bashing and scratch building etc. (even if i do say so myself) so i thought.... why not?

initially i set out to create a completely scratch built an army of guardsmen, trying to avoid GW kits like the plague due to the now overwhelming costs that appear to afflict the whole range. this was all well and good but waiting weeks and weeks from orders from around Europe, The Americas and other places was doing my head in and i needed my fix. A single 10 man unit took me almost 2 months of waiting for various deliveries and the wait outweighed my satisfaction.

So, like the weak little man i am, i popped into my local games workshop store and found, to my amazement, one of the guys i used to work with in there years and years ago It was a pleasant surprise indeed and what was even cooler was he was using a death Korps of Krieg army

After chatting for a while and picking up what i came to the store for, i asked if, by some miracle, forge world had got cheaper? or if he had been buying the models off Ebay etc to which he replied, 'No I'm paying full price for them'

So i headed off back home and went to the forge world website to see that a squad of 10 men is still almost £40?!?!?!?!?! How in the hell can anyone justify spending that sort of money of toy soldiers? I mean, the guy is pretty portly so its not like hes given up eating or anything....

anyway.... onto the search engine I go... From experience I know that GW try and bury anyone who copyrights their models so skipped straight to page 4-5 and began looking for companies advertising DKOP models.
After about 5 minutes of looking, several website from the orient popped up advertising them at approx 70% off the Forge world retail price... I clicked on the link (that i wont disclose mods) and was taken to the home page where I typed in DKOK and to my surprise was rewarded with pages upon pages of (clearly counterfeit) DKOP stuff, all at approx 60% off the retail price.

I selected a few bits and pieces and went to the check out, unsure if i was about to get conned or not and entered my details. Clicked continue and was thanked for my custom.... Now it was a wait. I was genuinely interested to see if i was going to get conned by the various companies I had placed my order with, and from researching the quality of the ' The peoples Death Korps of Tianimen square' I was sure that at the price I was paying was going to be a testament to the quality of models I was going to receive.

Approx 4 weeks after the initial order, I had a knock at my door (thankfully on my day off) and the postman promptly asked me to sign for several small boxes all mummified in brown parcel tape. After collecting the boxes I went over to my desk and began opening up the boxes....

To my surprise, almost every single kit was in fantastic condition, delivered no differently than a forge world order, each squad was packaged in a little plastic bag which in turn had been wrapped in bubble wrap to protect some of the more delicate parts.

after separating the various models from their sprue, I then proceeded to wash them and start grouping bits together so I knew what I had. As with the forge world stuff, no instructions etc so everything is by eye and everything needs test fitting.

unfortunately at this point, i was aware that some of the lasguns were broken, as were a few smaller items (nothing a bits box couldnt fix) - Again In my opinion this was massively similar to forge world and on occasion, they will send you models which through poor casting or transport, are not really fit for purpose.

So after building what models I could (approx 3 out of the 20 models I ordered could not be completed due to broken components) I sent an email to each seller explaining that the models had been broken in transport and I would like something done about it...

After a day or two, both sellers got back to me and informed me that they would be reissuing the items to me and would have a tracking number by the end of the day for me.... Unbelievably, by the end of the day I had 2 new tracking numbers and another 20 DKOP on way to my house... Customer service or what?!?!

The models that did work were cast perfectly - in my opinion, much better than some of the forge world stuff ive used in the past.... the quality of the resin made them look and to a certain extent feel like plastic, the smaller details that were not broken were cast brilliantly and even the small buttons on the rebreather units and other parts that would usually suffer from poor casting were defined and cast perfectly.

So now, after a month and a bit of waiting for my toy soldiers to come, i now have just shy of 40 DKOP for the princely sum of $36 which works out at not a lot of money at all.

Once my Air brush turns up from amazon I'm going to begin painting them Just got to start working my way through the list of other models I need for the army now so I can get a few games before the end of the year with a fully painted army That's now I've found someone who's casting is well above that of FW and who's customer service is nothing shy of awesome!

I know counterfeit models have been discussed on here several times over and just wanted to clarify that I would be able to begin a blog/topic when i begin the painting process?

Its a give that the regimental standard is going to have to do away with his little box of skulls on a stick and be waving a massive peoples republic of China flag... wheres the fun if we cant be a little tongue in cheek right? especially at my local store ^_^

Sorry... I passed out briefly. What was the question again?

Oh right - ok the answer is No unless you're forging a narrative and then it's Yes, unless your opponent is forging a different narrative and then you dice off on it.

Dashworth wrote:
So i headed off back home and went to the forge world website to see that a squad of 10 men is still almost £40?!?!?!?!?! How in the hell can anyone justify spending that sort of money of toy soldiers?

Tabletop wargaming is a hobby, and (relatively) a luxury hobby at that. I say relatively since compared with many other pasttimes it's quite cheap, unless you're buying an entire new army every month. Personally I had something of a perspective shift on it after chatting to a work colleague who remarked that he spent £50 a time on online poker sessions a couple of times a week. To me that's a waste, to him it's presumably time and money well spent. I assume he'd think the same of my toy soldiers.

Anyway,at 38.00 for a ten man squad the DKOK are cheap compared to my beloved Sisters of Battle

That aside, my personal view on recasting is do it if you must, but don't brag about it, and definitely don't try to justify it by saying GW (or FW) are too expensive. I've noticed that people have a tendency to talk about buying recasts of GW models like they're sticking it to The Man. Nah, they're just buying knock offs because they want expensive toys and aren't willing to pay for them, and buying recasts of GW/FW is no morally superior to buying recasts of any other mini maker's work.

To more directly answer your question, I would leave the source of the minis out of any future blog project on Dakka. It'd probably lead to the kind of unpleasant debate that this thread could well devolve into, and get locked since Dakka doesn't condone piracy.

thanks for your opinion man, i would never brag about it, (save the chinese flag for the standard haha)

I see your point, and whilst i appreciate that yes its a luxury, surely if i can get the same models, sometimes even better cast, for a 3rd of the price then it would be crazy for me not to take the opportunity?

The morality aspect i can live with but was just interested in other peoples veiws.

The answer is " shhhh don't tell anyone".

When you look at it this way, it's just more competition. My warp spiders are a similar story. Didn't get any while they were metal and wanted to avoid the new resin versions so went looking for some.

Now reselling them as actual originals is a strict no on the morality side of it.

 n0t_u wrote:
The answer is " shhhh don't tell anyone".

When you look at it this way, it's just more competition. My warp spiders are a similar story. Didn't get any while they were metal and wanted to avoid the new resin versions so went looking for some.

Now reselling them as actual originals is a strict no on the morality side of it.

This person has it. When you've painted them up nobody will be able to tell that they're not legit, and there's not a particularly good reason to broadcast that you buy counterfeit models. And yeah, don't resell them. I do not purchase from the recasters, but I wouldn't care about gaming with someone who does and I do not think that it's immoral.

 ashcroft wrote:
...I would leave the source of the minis out of any future blog project on Dakka. It'd probably lead to the kind of unpleasant debate that this thread could well devolve into, and get locked since Dakka doesn't condone piracy.

This too.

 ashcroft wrote:
...compared with many other pasttimes it's quite cheap

Wargaming is cheap compared to what pastime? Collecting luxury cars? I mean, I think Warhammer is objectively expensive compared to other miniatures and tabletop games.

Ask no questions and tell no lies.

I too have been impressed with models from a certain _____ company from _____. I ordered quite a bit of stuff and the only thing thats been broken so far was the little icon on _____ the impaler. I wouldnt be able to afford 40k if not for _____ site, and i'm on decent money. I do have plenty of official stuff and bought A LOT when i went to the uk as the prices were a bit more realistic(aus/nz gets a x3 markup for no reason). I will certainly be getting more from _____ in the future.

Sigh...

Once again...

This site is NOT the place to discuss counterfeiting or buying counterfeit models.

This hobby is a luxury, if you can't afford the models you want find an alternative.

Seriously we live in the golden age of miniatures, WGF greatcoats or Russians are a fraction of the price.

Peace.