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I recently read the BAO/NOVA article in regards with CAD in their tourneys. My question is a Firebase support cadre in a FE detachment counts as being a FE detachment? In order to give the riptide ECPA. Also, does the broadsides in the formation needs to take bonding knife ritual? Another question is do the units in the formation take a slot in the CAD. What I mean is does the riptide takes 1 of the elite spot since they keep their battle roles?

Formations are their own Detachment.

Theoretically you could make the Firebase Support Cadre a FE detachment, however, there is no way to take the mandatory 3-suit Crisis battlesuit squad.

Can't you just use CAD and put the formation their since they have their own slot there? I didn't read anything that restricts including the formation in a CAD ant have the whole CAD FE.

Formations have their own detachment , which cannot meet the requirements of FE

Tautastic wrote:
Can't you just use CAD and put the formation their since they have their own slot there? I didn't read anything that restricts including the formation in a CAD ant have the whole CAD FE.

Its not explicit but it is in the rule book (I have the epub so no page numbers)

Under the detachments section of the book it explains that "... no unit can belong to more than one detachment." and under the formations heading in choosing your army it exaplians "Formations are a special kind of detachment..."

So units in a formation can never be in a Combined Arms Detachment.

I don't have access to my rule book ATM so please correct me if I state something wrong. Once I get home I can provide a more articulate respond. With that...special detachment does not necessarily means seperate/different detachment. Beside isn't there a picture a couple pages or so after the formation definition in regards with CAD and AD. In the CAD box where it list your FOC also have fortification, LoW and formation? My point is doesn't that explicitly allows you to have a formation in a CAD?

Tautastic wrote:
In the CAD box where it list your FOC also have fortification, LoW and formation? My point is doesn't that explicitly allows you to have a formation in a CAD?

No, there is no "formation" slot in a CAD.

Tautastic wrote:
I don't have access to my rule book ATM so please correct me if I state something wrong. Once I get home I can provide a more articulate respond. With that...special detachment does not necessarily means seperate/different detachment. Beside isn't there a picture a couple pages or so after the formation definition in regards with CAD and AD. In the CAD box where it list your FOC also have fortification, LoW and formation? My point is doesn't that explicitly allows you to have a formation in a CAD?

Yes it means it is a different detachment. There us no "formation" slot on a CAD. pls check your rule book.

Yup you guys are right. Thanks for the responce!

On the formation with an F.E. detachment thing:
Forgeworld has ruled that all their models are considered official Supplements, has game Workshop made such a Ruling on Formations?

@JinxDragon: I would be interested in the answer to that question too.

As it is now it can be agrued that since formations are a "special kind of detachment" and bypass the manditory HQ and troop(s) choices to be a legal detachment. What is stopping it to bypass the manditory requirements for the 3-crisis suits too?

Tautastic,
You have a flaw in your understanding of Detachments as you are trying to hold Units to Requirements not found in their Detachment, simply because another Detachment has that Requirement. In 7th Edition each Detachment has it's own Force Organization Chart, Requirements and Benefits independently of each other. As Formations are their own Detachments, they are only bound by Requirements found within the Formation itself, and can even be fielded as the Primary Detachment if the list is constructed... well, poorly at that stage. With the right combination of Detachments it is possible to have a Battle Forged Army which contains exactly 0 HQ and Troop Units at all, simply by refusing to include any Detachments which has those minimal Requirements. Formations are very good for that purpose, assuming one can find a Formation with the Units they wish to field.

Now to answer your question:
Farsight Enclave Detachments have additional "Detachment Requirements" that must also be met. One of these Requirements is that the Detachment contains a 3 Suit Crisis Team, without meeting that Requirement the Detachment can not be considered a Farsight Enclave Detachment even under the most giving of 'how do we determine what consists a Supplement Detachment' answers. The Formation in question does not contain any Crisis Suits at all, let alone any which form a single 3-Suit Unit, so it can not meet the Detachment Requirements. This is the only thing preventing something from being very much abused however, so it is a conclusion I happily support.

Tautastic wrote:
@JinxDragon: I would be interested in the answer to that question too.

As it is now it can be agrued that since formations are a "special kind of detachment" and bypass the manditory HQ and troop(s) choices to be a legal detachment. What is stopping it to bypass the manditory requirements for the 3-crisis suits too?

They're only mandatory in a CAD.

Again, you are fundamentally misunderstanding how the new rules work. Throw out, entirely, your old ideas . They no longer hold.

Sigh...why did they make things so confusing! Too much rules to remember...Too many things that have special rules letting them do this and that.

Well thanks for nicely explaining it.

Be happy though:
Means no one is taking just this formation and putting the Earth Caste Thingy onto the Riptide....

I was trying to find a loophole to do that! Haha
But then again I am going all FE. Wish they didn't FAQ the part in the FE codex in regards to Riptides taking sig sys. Oh well time to change up my list to be tourney legal!

I had that feeling but you have to agree with me:
Tau Players like you and I do not need any additional handouts!
We are already the best.

Well, some Blastmasters would be nice....

For the greater good!
It just sucks that I started playing 40k 4-5 months ago and I just recently got used to 6th ed rules then bam 7th ed!

Or having stealth suits be more useful competitive wise...

You never get used to that,
Just be glad our codex made it to 6th edition, those 5th edition codex's do not weather well....

Try having a 4th ed!
Well you Tau players can enjoy your high pedestal for one more week

I know I didn't look very closely, but orks didn't even make it to 5th?
Ouch....

JinxDragon wrote:
I know I didn't look very closely, but orks didn't even make it to 5th?
Ouch....

Yep 2008 the last one...

I'm so sorry, I didn't know.... I didn't know!
Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact I was trying to use nothing but 6th edition releases I would of ended up with orks as there is just too much flavour not to fall in love with them.

Ah well, only one more week to go!

Actually, that is some nice timing as it would give me a good chance to teach the game to a player whom leans a little to the Orks.

All I know is that I need a "Teleport Blasta"
I don't know what it does, and I don't care

 grendel083 wrote:
All I know is that I need a "Teleport Blasta"
I don't know what it does, and I don't care

It'd be awesome if it Teleported either you into CC with the enemy, or the Enemy into CC with you....or ate you. Gotta love those Orks!

All this Tau speak has me confused. How do formations affect the Battle-Forged status of your army and the special rules conferred therein?

Let's say I have Primary Detachment of Qty (1) Hive Tyrant (HQ) and Qty (2) Hormagaunt Broods. That would be the minimum requirements for a Combined Arms detachment, yes? So I can reroll the warlord trait (Ideal Mission Commander) and the Hormagaunts hold the objectives even if challenged by non-Troops (Objective Secured). Now, say I add the Manufactorum Genestealers formation, which consists of Qty (5) Genestealer Broods (with the correlating special rules). So this leaves me with a couple questions. Since the formation is a "special type of detachment", then, even though the genestealers are still Troops ("...each individual unit maintains its normal Battlefield Role when..."), since they are not part of the Primary Combined Arms Detachment, they do not have the Objective Secured special rule. Is this correct?

Also, Battle-Forged armies require the army to be assembled from detachments. Since formations are "special detachments", then an army consisting of a Manufactorum Genestealers formation ONLY would still be a Battle-Forged army for all intents and purposes, correct?

Lynkon_Lawg wrote:
since they are not part of the Primary Combined Arms Detachment, they do not have the Objective Secured special rule. Is this correct?

Almost correct: it has nothing to do with being Primary. Any CAD has ObjSec Troops, not just your Primary CAD. And in order to have ObjSec, the Troops must be part of a CAD.

Also, Battle-Forged armies require the army to be assembled from detachments. Since formations are "special detachments", then an army consisting of a Manufactorum Genestealers formation ONLY would still be a Battle-Forged army for all intents and purposes, correct?

Yes, correct. However, you're losing out on the main benefit of being Battle-Forged, which is getting CADs for ObjSec Troops.
...unless some tourney is banning Unbound, and you want to cleverly make an Unbound-style list that is still completely Battle-Forged

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

Lynkon_Lawg wrote:

Also, Battle-Forged armies require the army to be assembled from detachments. Since formations are "special detachments", then an army consisting of a Manufactorum Genestealers formation ONLY would still be a Battle-Forged army for all intents and purposes, correct?

Yes, correct. However, you're losing out on the main benefit of being Battle-Forged, which is getting CADs for ObjSec Troops.
...unless some tourney is banning Unbound, and you want to cleverly make an Unbound-style list that is still completely Battle-Forged

That was exactly why I was asking. I just reviewed the tournament packet and it states "we will be using the 'Battle Forged' rules to select armies, from page...", followed by "All GW Codices, "Codex: Imperial Knights, Codex Supplements, Data slates, and Formations are permitted in this event."

What I'm really chewing on now is that I was hoping the non-CAD, non-Allied Detachemnt state of the Formation Detachments would mean the "Allies Matrix" wouldn't apply, but just rereading the Allies section of BRB, I just realized that the "Allies Matrix" applies whether the detachments are CAD, Allied, Formation, or Unbound. If I tried to stick an SM Formation with a Tyranid Formation, it's still "Come the Apocalypse".