Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

1) Can you change your front arc while in combat? How about if you push or throw the model you were facing away? I had a game a couple of weeks ago where I had a Kodiak double-handed throw a Warpwolf Stalker (I think it was a stalker, the one with the big sword) behind him, and wasn't sure if I could turn to face him, so when the Warpwolf got up it charged my Kodiak's flank.

2) With the above scenario how do you determine the front arc of the model that was thrown? If I threw the Warpwolf behind me, would he be facing the direction he was thrown? I seem to recall he just got up and changed his facing immediately, but doesn't LOS for charges get determined before you change facing, i.e. if something is behind you you can't turn first and then charge?

3) I'm a bit confused about how LOS works in regards to model sizes. If I have a unit of regular based infantry (let's say Winter Guard Infantry) in front of a Warjack, they won't block LOS to it as it's on a bigger base, but will block charge lanes?

4) How specifically does an "Action" (the one that has a star on the card) relate to a Warcaster's activation? e.g. if I have eSorscha can I cast a spell, move, then use her action? How about use her action, move and cast a spell? Cast, move, cast, action? Basically what does the action replace? A spell? Movement? Her ranged (i.e. non-spell) attack? Where does the Feat fit into that? I guess I am still stuck in 40k mindset where you have a movement phase, a shooting phase, etc. while in Warmachine it seems like everything falls under "Activation" so I'm a bit confused about what I can do and when; I get that charging/running ends your activation immediately but the order of other things is confusing.

1) Not sure of your question. "in combat" isn't a thing in the rules. Being engaged is. And yes you can change your facing while engaged. Its part of movement. You're completely free to even leave combat(and take a free strike)

No, in your example you could not even do what you described. You cannot throw a model in such a way that it passes over your base.


2) A model which is thrown maintains its current orientation. If the model was directly facing along a line 45 degrees from where the model throwing it was directly facing, then it will still be facing along that same 45 degree line. It will of course be knocked down(where facing doesn't matter) so unless it can't be knocked down it doesn't matter.


3) Models block LoS to models with equal or smaller bases than themselves. The base size of the model trying to draw LoS does not matter. So winter guard in front of a jack will not block line of sight, but they will block charge lanes as applicable.


4) Its always movement first, and then action. Unless you have a special ability like Bushwhack or Ride-by-attack(cavalry). Spells are "at any time" abilities. And can be used at any time(but cannot interrupt movement or an attack) Feats are the same deal. Action is when a model makes attacks or uses * actions. Spells and feats, and some other abilities, are not actions, They can be used "at any time"

* actions, also called special actions, take the place of your action. You forfeit all your initial attacks, and also cannot buy additional attacks when you make a * action. You can still cast spells(if you are a warcaster or warlock) Many models who aren't warcasters cast their spells as * actions instead of spending focus/fury. * attacks will allow you to purchase additional attacks if they are tied to a weapon or explicitly allow purchasing additional attacks, they simply use all your initial attacks.

Example: Combustion(* attack) Model forfeits its initial attacks to trigger combustion. Its not a melee attack, but it explicitly allows you to purchase additional melee attacks after using Combustion.

Running is a special case. You cannot cast spells(or cast animi or be forced) during an action in which you run.

You can cast spells and then charge, even if the charge fails.

Charging only immediately ends your activation if the charge fails. Which means when you finish the charge movement the charge target is not in your melee range. You could cast spells before you failed the charge though. People even deliberately do this. Cast all the spells they need on turn 1 and then charge an enemy model on the other side just to get the extra 3" of movement.

I kind of get what you mean on the first part, but I don't understand because I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that a trick with a Kodiak is to throw a model *behind* it (i.e. closer to your own guys). Maybe I misunderstood what I had read about the tactic (maybe it meant diagonally and not actually behind).

Basically what meant is if I could throw something backwards and away (as opposed to throwing it forward and away) and then turn to face it afterwards, so my flank is not exposed.

What they mean with that is that you get to where your Kodiak is facing sideways towards your army and then you throw the enemy model sideways relative to your jack(but back towards your army)

So its "behind" your jack in a way. But its not literally behind it.

You can basically throw a model 180 degrees from where it currently is relative to the model doing the throw.

Deviation can make the model end up behind the model that threw it, but its unlikely.

 Grey Templar wrote:
What they mean with that is that you get to where your Kodiak is facing sideways towards your army and then you throw the enemy model sideways relative to your jack(but back towards your army)

So its "behind" your jack in a way. But its not literally behind it.

You can basically throw a model 180 degrees from where it currently is relative to the model doing the throw.

Deviation can make the model end up behind the model that threw it, but its unlikely.

Gotcha, makes sense. But now if I did that, could I have my Kodiak change facing to face that same direction, so when the model I threw gets back up he's facing my front arc? What happened in the one game was I threw the Warpwolf, but when he got up from being knocked down he charged into my Kodiak's flank since I wasn't sure if I could have changed my facing.

No. You can only change facing during your movement. Once you've made attacks you are well past when you could turn.

But because of throw mechanics, its almost impossible for a model you threw to actually end completely in your back arc.

And its not like getting back strike on a jack, especially a Khador jack, is going to benefit them all that much.

Just to clarify, you do not have to 'charge' in order to attack someone in melee in this game. The Warpwolf may have been facing the wrong way (which would prevent him charging you), but he could have just stood up (which I should point out he doesn't do for free) and walked into melee and made his attacks.

I have made an incredible infographic to demonstrate the Throw Situation to the best of my understanding. Note that there are two ways of throwing things - if you're making a two-handed throw, like you can do with the Kodiak, you can choose to either pick a direction to throw in or a target model to throw at. If you throw at a model specifically then it's pretty hard to have the thrown model land in your back arc as the model you're throwing at must be in your line of sight, but if you just pick a direction then it's much easier.

Powerguy wrote:
Just to clarify, you do not have to 'charge' in order to attack someone in melee in this game. The Warpwolf may have been facing the wrong way (which would prevent him charging you), but he could have just stood up (which I should point out he doesn't do for free) and walked into melee and made his attacks.

I understand that; he specifically charged so I wasn't sure how to determine his facing, and I misunderstood the tactic I've read about where the Kodiak throws something towards the rest of my army (who presumably finish it off while it's knocked down) so I didn't finish it off and left myself exposed.

You also don't have to charge directly towards your target(directly towards is another explicit game term)

You only have to end in melee range of it(or move along a vector which would bring you into melee range if you had infinite movement)

The following graphic shows possible legal charges for the blue model. The light blue circles show possible(but not all) final positions for when a model charges.

So if you end up on the side of a model, you can potentially Grab+Smash it back towards where you originally charged it from.