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Hi guys,

I'm currently reading up on warmachine using the quickstart rules to try out what it is like. As these may not be complete, I decided to seek understanding here in case I misintepreted the rule.

The Line of Sight rule in the quick start states that you can draw line of sight over bases of models if the base is smaller than the base of the target.

If I wanted to form a moving screen with a few small models moving in base contact, does that screen the larger base model behind them? Or they can never screen because their base is smaller? I am guessing they are meaning that larger base guys are taller and thus, smaller base guys can never screen them. Is this correct?

 milkboy wrote:
Hi guys,

I'm currently reading up on warmachine using the quickstart rules to try out what it is like. As these may not be complete, I decided to seek understanding here in case I misintepreted the rule.

The Line of Sight rule in the quick start states that you can draw line of sight over bases of models if the base is smaller than the base of the target.

If I wanted to form a moving screen with a few small models moving in base contact, does that screen the larger base model behind them? Or they can never screen because their base is smaller? I am guessing they are meaning that larger base guys are taller and thus, smaller base guys can never screen them. Is this correct?

Smaller based models can never screen models that have larger bases than their own, so in your example, the larger based model behind would not be screened by the small based models in front, even if they were in base contact with each other.

Yes, you're correct here. A larger base can always be seen behind smaller bases - it doesn't matter how many infantry you pile in font of a heavy, it's still a 14' high giant, and can be seen/shot at just fine. The base size of the attacker never matters in determining Line of Sight, of course, only the base sizes of the target and the screening models.

Bubble wrapping jacks with infantry can still help to stop them getting charged, which is important to protect expensive but generally slow jacks, assuming the infantry models don't get killed or trampled through.

Thanks guys!

It's a pity the quick start does give stats for a trial run for movement and all that to get used to. Unless there was and I missed it? I think moving a few miniatures around would be the best way to get familiar, even if I am not using Warmachine minis per se.

 milkboy wrote:
Thanks guys!

It's a pity the quick start does give stats for a trial run for movement and all that to get used to. Unless there was and I missed it? I think moving a few miniatures around would be the best way to get familiar, even if I am not using Warmachine minis per se.

Quick start rules back page can be found here (http://privateerpress.com/warmachine-mk-ii-quickstart-rules-are-here) and contains the cards for all the main battleboxes (Menoth, Cygnar, Cryx and Khador), or you can download warroom on iOS or Android, and that comes with all the battlebox cards and a selection of others for free as well (full card decks cost $7 and are updated with new releases as they come out).

You can definitely use other models to sub in and try the game out, but remember if you're coming from a Warhammer background that there are many fundamental differences, and sometimes you have to completely change your concept of gameplay. Things like you don't have to charge to get into combat (just walk into melee range if you want), aren't locked in combat (just walk out, but take a free strike), can charge and attack your own guys if you want (can be useful in some situations), and so on. Also, everything does exactly what it says it does - no more, no less. Take something like "stealth", which essentially makes ranged attacks automatically miss - but it doesn't mean you can't target a stealth model with an AOE (ie. blast) weapon, miss, but the blast could still scatter onto them.

Hope that helps

 milkboy wrote:
Thanks guys!

It's a pity the quick start does give stats for a trial run for movement and all that to get used to. Unless there was and I missed it? I think moving a few miniatures around would be the best way to get familiar, even if I am not using Warmachine minis per se.

You should get the stats (and the minis ) with the box you got the rules in.

Thanks for the links Maddermax! Gonna print them out tonight to try a me vs me game.

PhantomViper wrote:

 milkboy wrote:
Hi guys,

I'm currently reading up on warmachine using the quickstart rules to try out what it is like. As these may not be complete, I decided to seek understanding here in case I misintepreted the rule.

The Line of Sight rule in the quick start states that you can draw line of sight over bases of models if the base is smaller than the base of the target.

If I wanted to form a moving screen with a few small models moving in base contact, does that screen the larger base model behind them? Or they can never screen because their base is smaller? I am guessing they are meaning that larger base guys are taller and thus, smaller base guys can never screen them. Is this correct?

Smaller based models can never screen models that have larger bases than their own, so in your example, the larger based model behind would not be screened by the small based models in front, even if they were in base contact with each other.

Wait, so a smaller unit doesn't block LoS for a larger one behind it? No more 25% bs?

Zodiark wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 milkboy wrote:
Hi guys,

I'm currently reading up on warmachine using the quickstart rules to try out what it is like. As these may not be complete, I decided to seek understanding here in case I misintepreted the rule.

The Line of Sight rule in the quick start states that you can draw line of sight over bases of models if the base is smaller than the base of the target.

If I wanted to form a moving screen with a few small models moving in base contact, does that screen the larger base model behind them? Or they can never screen because their base is smaller? I am guessing they are meaning that larger base guys are taller and thus, smaller base guys can never screen them. Is this correct?

Smaller based models can never screen models that have larger bases than their own, so in your example, the larger based model behind would not be screened by the small based models in front, even if they were in base contact with each other.

Wait, so a smaller unit doesn't block LoS for a larger one behind it? No more 25% bs?

Correct, if you can draw a straight line that doesn't cross another base, terrain, or other effect between two models bases that means they have LOS to each other. And if it does cross one of the aforementioned things if that thing is classed as a smaller size than the target or otherwise does not block LOS your model has LOS to the target model. LOS is based on base size (30mm small, 40 mm medium, 50 mm large, 120 mm huge) and for terain type and height.

I think I'll enjoy this

Models also don't give cover to other models. They just, potentially, block LoS. And LoS is an all or nothing affair.

If you have a line of small based models with another small based model behind them, it only takes the tiniest sliver between bases to draw LoS.

Models block LoS in a cylinder of a specified height dependent on base size(rule book says how tall the different bases are)


In addition, LoS is drawn separately from range. So you may have LoS from the outside of your base, but be drawing range from elsewhere. This applies to melee and ranged attacks.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Models also don't give cover to other models. They just, potentially, block LoS. And LoS is an all or nothing affair.

If you have a line of small based models with another small based model behind them, it only takes the tiniest sliver between bases to draw LoS.

Models block LoS in a cylinder of a specified height dependent on base size(rule book says how tall the different bases are)


In addition, LoS is drawn separately from range. So you may have LoS from the outside of your base, but be drawing range from elsewhere. This applies to melee and ranged attacks.

Models don't block LoS in a cylinder. The cylinder is just used to check if you can see a model past terrain.

When it comes to blocking LoS, the only thing that matters about a model is its position and base size.

No, the cylinder matters for LoS when you have terrain.

Sorry, not sure what you're getting at there.

The cylinder is used to determine if a model can see another model around terrain - you need to be able to draw a line from one model's volume cylinder to the other's without it passing through terrain. Intervening models' cylinders don't matter at all.

Specifically,

 Grey Templar wrote:
Models block LoS in a cylinder

that part. The cylinder isn't used for blocking LoS, it's used for drawing LoS.

Ahhhh, I think I misspoke in this instance.

Either way, the effect is the same. A 1.75" cylinder can never block LoS to a 2" cylinder, and so on.

The distinction is important because that's not always the case - the LoS rules mostly ignore the Z axis. For example, if you had a small-based model on a hill in a system that worked off volume, that small-based model would be able to see a lot of things that it can't actually see in Warmachine, like one small base just behind two small bases. It would also not be able to see some things that it can see in Warmachine, like a small base just over one inch behind a large (or huge, if you like) base.

Or, to take an easy and logical example that comes up all the time, you wouldn't be able to block the LoS of a large-based model to a small-based model by putting other small-based models in front of it (and you'd have to do some trigonometry to figure out how far back a small-based model would have to be to be visible behind a medium-based model, etc.

I'm not meaning to pick on you or be pedantic, just the cylinders really confuse people because they're hardly ever relevant and they lead to misconceptions about the LoS system and what can draw LoS to what. It's important for people to understand the LoS models mostly ignore the Z axis and blocking LoS is just a function of base size category and base area.