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Made some changes, figured if I wanted to take out armor with my Eldar, maybe Fire Dragons were a better bet.

HQ
Spiritseer, Spear of Teuthlas - 85

Troops
1x 5 man Wraithguard - 160
Wave Serpent, holo-fields, scatter laser - 135
3x 3 man Windrider jetbike squad, shuriken cannon - 183

Elite
2x 6 man Fire Dragon squad - 264
2x Wave Serpent, holo-fields, scatter laser - 270

Heavy Support/ Warlord
2 Wraithknights - 480

DE HQ
Haemonculus, liquefier gun - 60

Troops
9 man Wrack squad, liquefier gun - 100
Raider, disintegrator, flickerfield - 70

10 man Wrack squad, 2 liquefier guns - 120
Raider, disintegrator, flickerfield - 70


I had a hell of a time working out the Dark Eldar portion of this list and I'm almost wondering if it's even worth it to include them. I'm almost leaning toward not including them. At first I had 3 reaver squads with caltrops, but then I'd only have room for one squad of Wracks and the list would become Unbound. So, I did some shuffling, and made 2 squads of Wracks in Raiders, each with 2 liquefier guns (The Haemy gives the 9 man squad another one). The Spear on the seer is largely there to take up points, as I had 18 leftover without it. However, I could drop that along with 1 Fire Dragon from each squads, which could buy me another Windrider squad and I'd be at 1999 points.

Am I on the right track here? Part of me does want to drop the DE, but my plan in the first place was DE/Eldar list and I'd like to see if I can do it.

This is a brutal list. both well balanced in anti MEQ/TEQ etc.
I would have a hard time playing against it. Just be very careful to remember that jink is not your friend. All an opponent has to do is get you to jink.

Other than that I don't think you need to d-scythes. They are super pricey and honestly if you have another wraith knight, or direavngers or more jetbikes, swooping hawks. there are many things you can do.

You want advice? If you are a smoker, stop smoking. It is unhealthy and expensive. Your welcome.

I would change the warriors for wracks btw and freed up some points. Warriors mostly just fire snap shots as venoms often move 12 " and wracks are far more survieable even at 3 per unit.

I second wracks, but kabbies are OK too. Could drop the chain snares for a blaster in one of the kabbie squads for some clutch anti-tank. I would consider dropping one of the shardcarbine trueborn for a blaster in the 2nd squad. Or go with wracks, 3 if you want cheap, 5 with a liquifier for oomph.

With those last 5 points, get the hamey a venom blade. On the off chance you see melee, it is a steal for the cost.

 CorpseCommander wrote:
This is a brutal list. both well balanced in anti MEQ/TEQ etc.
I would have a hard time playing against it. Just be very careful to remember that jink is not your friend. All an opponent has to do is get you to jink.

Other than that I don't think you need to d-scythes. They are super pricey and honestly if you have another wraith knight, or direavngers or more jetbikes, swooping hawks. there are many things you can do.

Would you recommend I just drop the scythes or that squad altogether?

On the point of exchanging the Warriors for Wracks, that'snot a bad idea. I didn't consider the snapshooting from the warriors, so that makes sense. Plus, if I drop Wracks on an objective, they'll last a lot longer than the Warriors would. Going to tally that out and see what I got. Plus, with the Wracks dropped and holding, the Venom itself has Objective Secured and can go after another TacO.

It's a risky list.

You're coming up with 1 WK 3 WS and 3 Venoms at 2000 points.

Sure, what's in your WS has the potential to hurt, but it's far from immortal and well....

The way I see it, against a competitive list, you will lose either the WK or the 3 Venoms T1, 2/3 WS on T2, and you're tabled before T5.

There's a lot of good stuff but you simply lack any kind of resilience, especially if your WG get charged by anything decent in assault, along with their transport.

With their range, I'm quite sure you can't avoid it

I think 2 Spiritseers is a waste IMO. They aren't manifesting anything while embarked, and once disembarked they'll have limited options. I'd drop one. Voice is nice, but not 70pts for their Wraith Squad. The unit that needs them the most are the Wraithscythes as the shorter range and template potential is more valuable.

I'd also drop the Suncannon/Shield/Scatter for a stock Wraithknight. Ranged S10 is a premium. I know losing the 5++ on your Warlord is tough, but the Wraithknight is still plenty durable and with a bit of cover ie woods/ruins and/or Nightfigthinig he can be pretty durable 1st turn.

That nets you 130pts to work with. This is getting you close to dropping a DE selection for another Serpent. Or at the least nets you another two EJB squads and can get them Shurriken Cannons.

morgoth wrote:
It's a risky list.

You're coming up with 1 WK 3 WS and 3 Venoms at 2000 points.

Sure, what's in your WS has the potential to hurt, but it's far from immortal and well....

The way I see it, against a competitive list, you will lose either the WK or the 3 Venoms T1, 2/3 WS on T2, and you're tabled before T5.

There's a lot of good stuff but you simply lack any kind of resilience, especially if your WG get charged by anything decent in assault, along with their transport.

With their range, I'm quite sure you can't avoid it

Good points. I'm taking a look and re-evaluating the list from a more competitive standpoint. In a 2k list, I'm sure I can expect more armor in an opposing army, slimming down the survival rates of all my vehicles. WG are resilient by Eldar standards, but that's not saying much.

 Zagman wrote:
I think 2 Spiritseers is a waste IMO. They aren't manifesting anything while embarked, and once disembarked they'll have limited options. I'd drop one. Voice is nice, but not 70pts for their Wraith Squad. The unit that needs them the most are the Wraithscythes as the shorter range and template potential is more valuable.

I'd also drop the Suncannon/Shield/Scatter for a stock Wraithknight. Ranged S10 is a premium. I know losing the 5++ on your Warlord is tough, but the Wraithknight is still plenty durable and with a bit of cover ie woods/ruins and/or Nightfigthinig he can be pretty durable 1st turn.

That nets you 130pts to work with. This is getting you close to dropping a DE selection for another Serpent. Or at the least nets you another two EJB squads and can get them Shurriken Cannons.

I'll end up dropping one of the seers for sure. I'm not terribly familiar with psychics since I've never played a psychic heavy army, so it'll be something I need to get used to.

If I were to go with a naked WK, I'd prefer to go with two of them, and that's something I'm heavily considering. It would changes its role of mainly terminator hunting to anti-tank. I do come across some land raiders in my play group, so that wouldn't be a bad thing.

The WK is still much better per point when naked, you should run two or three in a Iyanden army imo.

It has major weaknesses but it often has the mobility to avoid his nemesis's

--I really dont think the spirit seers are a waste if you are bringing wraith units. In the Iyanden codex you can get the primaris power to make your wraith units battle focus. This will be super effective vs imperial knights who can declare front arc 4+ inv, then you battle focus to side armour and pop. Rinse repeat. Firedragons are a cheaper but more fragile non-troop option in this regard. They also have fleet for a more reliable battle focus.

--Also spirit seers get a total of 3 powers altogether if you Psychic focus on Runes of Battle. This is a decent chance of giving them W regain on a friendly aka (WK) , or making your wraithguard T6 terminators 2+. This is strong, very strong. I do understand that you aren't manifesting anything while "inside" however psychic is now after moving, meaning the blessings and such will take effect after you have disembarked. I would drop the D-scythes for a Dire Avenger IN WS with (scatter/holo) for a flat 200. Much cheaper and just use it as tank.

--Also Idk why everyone hates on the Wraithknight suncannon. When you kill 6 terminators or 10 marines in one round of shooting you will thank your stars that you brought that. Always bring a scatter for free rerolls. Also if you are playing your wraithknight aggressively (as you should be) there will be no need for S10 guns, you have assault. You have to pick your targets though. If you are assaulting a landraider, you wont fire. But its the same result as shooting it! Dead. So choose wisely and remember marines are S4! Only their grenades can hurt you on a yay

--Bring a wraithforged stone on a spiritseer. When you make a WraithKnight the warlord it is pure awesomesauce. Combined with Destructor/Renewer It can heal your WK 2 wounds a turn! Try killing that s.o.b. of a warlord hehh ehhh nooop.

--Wave Serpents - spirit stones are an ok choice, not extremely necessary, bring an aegis for 3+ holo field cover all day and never jink!

Hope this helps mate, I play Eldar and Iyanden competitively so I have playtested what I am suggesting for quite some time now.

Corpse... your name is fit for this comment...

If you get those spiritseers out, they'll be wiped in seconds. Your chances of getting powers off against GK are probably slim.

The WraithKnight Suncannon is not a good combo, it costs 300 points and it doesn't bring much synergy to an Eldar army.

In comparison, the naked WK is 240 points, brings long range anti tank and assault anti tank.

It's not hated, just inferior in value per point.

The Spirit Stone may be useful, especially if your enemy could not take down the WK in one turn, it may force him to expend two full turns into one WK, at which point you've won.

Aegis I would advise against, being static is not very good for an Eldar.

I disagree, the aegis can be placed half way up the board giving you great 3+ cover and while you ignore cover doesn't help them in the least while not negating your mobility.

As for suncannon, in my latest 1850 wraith list I have found it do be amusing at the very least with 3 twin linked S6 Ap2 templates, they only make that mistake once though...

The spirit stone on the otherhand I have never had good luck with, I cannot roll that 3+ if my WK life depended on it.

Lastly I encourage duel spiritseers, if you can roll protect/jinx or renew/destroy like a boss you will find hard units become almost indestructible.

I ended up shuffling some things around, adding in 2 Fire Dragon squads, since I expect I might see a Land Raider or two in some of the games. In the end I might go full Eldar and drop the DE, and just try to work on a competitive DE list eventually.

I don't think you need Fire Dragons if you're running Distortion.

morgoth wrote:
Corpse... your name is fit for this comment...

If you get those spiritseers out, they'll be wiped in seconds. Your chances of getting powers off against GK are probably slim.

The WraithKnight Suncannon is not a good combo, it costs 300 points and it doesn't bring much synergy to an Eldar army.

In comparison, the naked WK is 240 points, brings long range anti tank and assault anti tank.

It's not hated, just inferior in value per point.

The Spirit Stone may be useful, especially if your enemy could not take down the WK in one turn, it may force him to expend two full turns into one WK, at which point you've won.

Aegis I would advise against, being static is not very good for an Eldar.

As a long time Eldar player I really think you should playtest Spirit Seers and the Suncannon. Ive played over 30 or so games with that exact combo and I havent lost yet. Albeit Eldar are top tier for now, However you can't look down on things because you don't "think" they are good. Playtest playtest playtest. I have done this and my mind is already made up about the effectiveness of 2+ Wraithguard and a Suncannon that can take out a 10 man marine squad from a drop pod. If you don't finish them there are a million other things that can. My point is that there some things that perform anti tank much more cost effectively than a 240 p Wraithknight. I run him for versatility, He is anti infanty, anti vehicle in assault, and can tie things up with T8. Great all around. I often make him my warlord accept against certain armies. Grey Knights are much to expensive in cost to be effective over all, even if they get a few denys off. My WK will swat dread knights like small spoiled children

 CorpseCommander wrote:

As a long time Eldar player I really think you should playtest Spirit Seers and the Suncannon. Ive played over 30 or so games with that exact combo and I havent lost yet. Albeit Eldar are top tier for now, However you can't look down on things because you don't "think" they are good. Playtest playtest playtest. I have done this and my mind is already made up about the effectiveness of 2+ Wraithguard and a Suncannon that can take out a 10 man marine squad from a drop pod. If you don't finish them there are a million other things that can. My point is that there some things that perform anti tank much more cost effectively than a 240 p Wraithknight. I run him for versatility, He is anti infanty, anti vehicle in assault, and can tie things up with T8. Great all around. I often make him my warlord accept against certain armies. Grey Knights are much to expensive in cost to be effective over all, even if they get a few denys off. My WK will swat dread knights like small spoiled children

True.. playtesting is a lot better than theory crafting alone.

It seems to me that the Suncannon would even do a good job of handling AV12- swarm.

I'm not convinced of paying 240 points for 2S10AP1 shots, but on the other hand, I don't think we have any better ranged options.
Clearly, the WK shines in assault vs Vehicles, and that's the best reason to actually spend those 240 points for me.

I guess my lists already have so much anti Infantry I don't see the purpose of adding anymore, but considering this Iyanden list, it may very well be necessary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To OP... well I don't think your list as is is very competitive.

I don't know if the inclusion of DE is wrong or right though.
My feeling on DE this edition is that they have gotten better, thing is, they're only really good at being in your face, so unless your army is built on a synergy with that immediate threat, I don't think it can be worth it.
You either need your Eldar to take the heat while the DE get in position, or your DE to take the heat while the Eldar vaporize the biggest threats.

For example, three WraithKnight running up the field is a good reason for an enemy to make a choice between dealing with that, or dealing with a beastpack or haywireblasterdudes.
I don't know if it results in anything competitive though...

I believe our biggest Nemesis this edition will be Necrons, so if you can use DE elements to make your army overall stronger against Necrons, it may be worth it.

I've heard it go both ways for the WK. When I played my 1500 list, I had the cannon and shield. I loved how it worked and in the end it ended up making it's points back and then some. The rerollable blasts is what did it. However, that is 300 points, and 600 points sunk into 2 models is damn pricey.