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I've got a little question for everyone. Whats the general consensus on using other companies models for 'counts as?' I ask because as I've searched the web for various Orky goodness, I've found I really, REALLY like Mantic's Warpath models. Specifically I really like their standard Ork troopers. I was tempted to buy some, and use them for either a variance of Kommandos, or Tankbustas, to really make them stand out and look neat. I also found a cool website that has some AWESOME Ork artillery that seemed to have been made to substitute for Mek Gunz, despite having been created before these releases.

I don't think people in my group will complain. I mean, in our last Apoc game, someone was fielding a giant AT-AT model to stand in for some Tyranid unit or something, as well as other minor subs. But, I guess I'm more curious as an entire gaming community, what do people feel about it? For me, I'm specifically looking for models on the cheap, though as convoluted as GW rules can be, I enjoy this game. Now, mind you, ALL of my army right now, all 5k points of it, are legit GW stuff. But, to fill in my remaining gaps, I'd like to do it on the cheap, as I've managed to do with my entire army.

Thoughts!?

Hell yea!

3rd party models have huge potential!

I say go for it. Just avoid GW like a rabid dog.

My whole army is 3rd party and its by far the best army i have ever owned to the point I just rarely by GW now. Its a lot of fun.

If you are thinking of Orks have you looked at Kromlech orks yet? They have some awesome sci fi ork bits.

Perfectly fine for me! As long as it's clear what each unit represents then I'd have no problems with people using other manufacturers models. Be aware that you won't be able to play in GW stores or (lol like they'd run any) official events.

General consensus seems to be GW stores want 60%+ of the model to be GW, everywhere else couldn't give a feth so long as it's fitting and wysiwyg.

Absolutely fine, more variety is always cool and anything that makes your army unique is always a plus.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Hell yea!

3rd party models have huge potential!

I say go for it. Just avoid GW like a rabid dog.

My whole army is 3rd party and its by far the best army i have ever owned to the point I just rarely by GW now. Its a lot of fun.

If you are thinking of Orks have you looked at Kromlech orks yet? They have some awesome sci fi ork bits.

I've browsed their wares a few times, though the only thing that's jumped out at me is their 'Mega Nob' equivalents, though they are a bit...larger than the typical Manz. Not that it's a bad thing, but might make everything a little disproportionate. Though, I've yet to measure a Boy to a Warpath 'boy' yet either :I

Also, lucky for me I don't play in any GW shops, and I don't play their events even if I could. I like this game on a social, friend making level. I'll play more 'in it to win it' guys, but when I do play them, I just run the funnest, goofiest list I can to make them annoyed. Why yes, I'll take an hour to move my hundreds of boyz. Go get a soda! You won't miss much!

The Warpath boys will be a little smaller, but if you're using them as 'sneaky gitz' (Kommandos ect) then you could easily justify it fluff-wise. The Marauder Raptors would make neat Warbuggies/Wartraks too.

Remember not everything is the same size in real life. A little variation in scale isnt bad. So dont worry too much about size (unless its crazy obvious).

Rule of cool always wins. Conversions and customization are almost always ok, unless you play in a GW store for obvious reasons.

There is no clear-cut answer here, it really depends on the model you want to use, and what you want to use it as.

As long as its close enough, most will let it slide under the table, even turnies.
But if its far-fetched, you're in trouble.

 Yonan wrote:
General consensus seems to be GW stores want 60%+ of the model to be GW, everywhere else couldn't give a feth so long as it's fitting and wysiwyg.

This is what I've heard as well, though it might have been 75%. Regardless, as long as you're not playing at a GW store you will be fine. The only thing that might come up is a bit of stink-eye if you're playing at a FLGS with an army composed of minis that they don't sell, but that's a case-by-case thing. Ever since GW stopped running tournaments and providing prize support, most Tourneys and local scene's have become completely fine with replacement models as long as they are WYSIWYG compliant.

One thing I would like to clarify is the various terms used for replacement models.

-"Counts As": Using something that is completely different, but roughly equivalent, to represent something else. Examples would include using squats as IG or counting all Plasma guns as melta guns.
-"Proxy": Similar to "Counts as" and is often used interchangeably though it has the connotation of being even more extreme: Could include using an ATAT as a Tyranid creature.
-"Alternate model": Using something that represents the same subject material, but is not made by the same company or is a scratch build. Examples would include using Mantic Maurader Space Orx in place of GW Space Orks.

As for the models themselves vs GW, here are a few comparison shots. Remember that Mantic Fantasy and Sci-Fi orcs share the same body and size. If you're want a uniform look for ork bodies, there might be some issues, but you're probably ok using them for more unique units.
Vs Space Orc Boy

Vs a GW Savage Orc


Vs older style orc

I use lots of Dreamblade figures to stand in for Wracks and Grotesques. I have absolutely no problem with it, so long as there's a reasonable approximation.

I use to be on the fence for proxies and counts as but I don't view 40k from the competitive aspect anymore so go nuts! I am kinda in the same boat, I want mek guns and I want some variety in my mega characters so I will be going to kromlech. I also might get their armored models for ard boys. But I still do drop money on gw when I like the model, like flash gits.

As long as there is no confusion as to what model represents what, I think you'll find most people will be ok with it.
Personally, I'm slowly replacing my GW Ork army with Kromlech Orks.

My friends and I have a lot of Scibor miniatures mixed in with our armies. In my experience, it doesn't matter what you use so long as it's similar in size and dimensions.

General consensus in my community is that if the model is cool and it looks like the thing it's supposed to represent then there's no problem using it.

Gamestore owners usually don't look that closely to the models you bring on the table as long as it's not a tourney and even then... there's no rule that says that every single model have to be GW or FW.

A friend of mine play Imperial Guard and instead of chimeras he use some KABARDIN APC from Antenocitis. They are the right scale (even better than the chimeras if you ask me), they look really cool and they look like they can do exactly what a chimera is supposed to do.

Yep, as long as it's about the right size and doesn't do any 'modelling for advantage' stuff, go for it.

I'm waiting for the day GW acknowledges all the non-GW stuff in the rulebook. No one aside from GW employees care, but if GW introduced a rule in the book people suddenly would. Trying to ban them in the rulebook people would shrug, but I bet if GW insidiously had rules that armies containing a single non-GW model were treated as unbound, then people would care.

 Eilif wrote:

-"Counts As": Using something that is completely different, but roughly equivalent, to represent something else. Examples would include using squats as IG or counting all Plasma guns as melta guns.
-"Proxy": Similar to "Counts as" and is often used interchangeably though it has the connotation of being even more extreme: Could include using an ATAT as a Tyranid creature.
-"Alternate model": Using something that represents the same subject material, but is not made by the same company or is a scratch build. Examples would include using Mantic Maurader Space Orx in place of GW Space Orks.

If those are your definitions, what would you call my Khârn?

i think that whatever makes you enjoy your hobby best is how you should do things.

Not familiar with the character or model. What is it?

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

-"Counts As": Using something that is completely different, but roughly equivalent, to represent something else. Examples would include using squats as IG or counting all Plasma guns as melta guns.
-"Proxy": Similar to "Counts as" and is often used interchangeably though it has the connotation of being even more extreme: Could include using an ATAT as a Tyranid creature.
-"Alternate model": Using something that represents the same subject material, but is not made by the same company or is a scratch build. Examples would include using Mantic Maurader Space Orx in place of GW Space Orks.

If those are your definitions, what would you call my Khârn?

Spoiler:

I have always considered such things as the above Kharn as "counts as", and I have always also considered "Counts as" to be an awesome part of the hobby.

Back in the "old days" counts as models were a very cool way to show some imagination- and a lot of the time they were even showcased obviously in places like White Dwarf.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

-"Counts As": Using something that is completely different, but roughly equivalent, to represent something else. Examples would include using squats as IG or counting all Plasma guns as melta guns.
-"Proxy": Similar to "Counts as" and is often used interchangeably though it has the connotation of being even more extreme: Could include using an ATAT as a Tyranid creature.
-"Alternate model": Using something that represents the same subject material, but is not made by the same company or is a scratch build. Examples would include using Mantic Maurader Space Orx in place of GW Space Orks.

If those are your definitions, what would you call my Khârn?

I would say alternate model... it's clearly the monopose Chaos Aspiring Champion, but only if you have a plasma pistol on him somewhere and removed the combi-melta that's on the backpack. Otherwise, if no other modifications have been made, it'd be a counts as.

If it's a different model modified a bit and used as a special character, then it's an alternate model.

Does point out a flaw in my definition though. An alternate model doesn't have to be from a different company or a scratch build to be an alternate. It can be a different model from the same company.

Then what would you call my count as?

fine by me as long as they are fairly representative - I like to see new models

 Ribon Fox wrote:
Then what would you call my count as?

Looks like a kitbash to me. What are you counting it as? I'd probably call it a kitbashed "alternate model" if it's armed the same and is roughly the same size as what you are using it as.

LRBT exterminator fully kitted up, all the weaps are what you get, plus its been Pask's ride since 5th. My whole army is like, light to medium mechs from Mech Commander. Best thing was when some one asked if my mechs were Forge World

Hmm that's a toughy then. I love the concept and the execution, but it's so different in terms of dimensions and appearance, I'd probably call it a proxy.

Not to say in any way disapprove, and I certainly wouldn't refuse to play against it (It passes "rule of cool" with flying colors). It's so different from the original source material, that it's a proxy.

play the models you think look coolest, as long as it's clear what they're meant to be. I actually have way more problems with people using very similar models, especially tyranids. Halfway through the game i realise that the trygon is actually a mawloc or something like that.

on the same topic, I like the rules for the giant spawn but dislike the fw model for it. Would a fantasy mutalith be a good enough substitute? and would that be a counts as or a proxy?