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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 16:20:15
Subject: Shadowsun Infultrate on Bodyguard Team
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Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot
Vior'la Sept
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So here is one answer that I got:
Zagman wrote:You can't infiltrate the Bomb. Can't join an IC to a unit without deploying it in coherency, unit has to be deployed before the Infiltrate IC.
The only thing, is that I'm not sure its right. Cant find this in the BRB anywhere. Help please?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 16:27:44
Subject: Shadowsun Infultrate on Bodyguard Team
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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7th has finally given us a little more insight into how GW wants this to work. "Units do not confer Infiltrate to ICs." (So ICs confer it to unit?.) However the whole: deployment negates infiltrate argument is invalid now.
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"If you are not naughty you get a cookie. If you are naked, you get a cookie." - Insaniak, Dakka Mod
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 16:28:21
Subject: Re:Shadowsun Infultrate on Bodyguard Team
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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It under Independent Characters in the BRB. An IC can begin the game either deployed in coherency with a unit, or by being attached to a unit in reserves.
Infiltrate tell us how to deploy infiltrators, which is after normal deployment. Nothing allows you to attach an Infiltrate IC to a unit before the game and then Infiltrate that unit. Infiltrates are deployed later, and there is no way to legally attach the IC to grant them Infiltrate.
This has been a rules dispute for quite a while. Some tournaments rule you can do this, but RAW it is very clear, you cannot use an IC with Infiltrate to Infiltrate a unit without that special rule. Although, you could use an Infiltrating IC attached to a normal unit in Reserves to Outflank.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 16:28:50
Subject: Shadowsun Infultrate on Bodyguard Team
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Regular Dakkanaut
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It's under Infiltrate and the rules for Independent Characters. IC rules tell you how to join a unit at deployment. Infiltrate says deploy last. The net effect is an IC doesn't allow a non-Infiltrate unit to Infiltrate.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 17:14:56
Subject: Re:Shadowsun Infultrate on Bodyguard Team
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Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot
Vior'la Sept
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Ok, thanks. So then is there an effective way of getting around interceptor shots and still start in reserves, or should I just start on the field?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 17:20:20
Subject: Re:Shadowsun Infultrate on Bodyguard Team
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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Commander_Farsight wrote:Ok, thanks. So then is there an effective way of getting around interceptor shots and still start in reserves, or should I just start on the field? Not really, other than walk on/Deep Strike out of LOS of the models with Interceptor. With Stealth and Shrouded from Shadowsun if you get into terrain you'll be pretty safe from anything without Ignores Cover anyway.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/30 17:58:42
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 17:45:51
Subject: Shadowsun Infultrate on Bodyguard Team
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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Gregor_xenos, Keep in mind that the Independent Character Rules contain the following: Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit’s special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character’s special rules are not conferred upon the unit. From what I have reviewed, the Deployment Issue still exists.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/30 17:48:07
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 21:16:54
Subject: Shadowsun Infultrate on Bodyguard Team
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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RaW it is a flat and clear no you can't for the reasons listed above by Zagman et al. RaI it appears that you can. GW doesn't seem to have a handle on how ICs join units during deployment. Look at Shrikes rules which read as a restriction on an action that you can't take. Hence why many TOs rule that this is allowed.
Basically the whole thing is an unclear mess and has been for at least 3 editions (Shrike needed a FAQ to work in 5th and they seemed to completely forget this issue during 6th and now 7th). However RaW is crystal clear that it is a big no.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 21:24:38
Subject: Shadowsun Infultrate on Bodyguard Team
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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Well.... interesting to know.
Guess it hasn't been an issue to me in quite a while. The tournaments I attend follow NOVA, BAO, and other MAJOR tournament FAQs that allow it.
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"If you are not naughty you get a cookie. If you are naked, you get a cookie." - Insaniak, Dakka Mod
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 21:33:00
Subject: Shadowsun Infultrate on Bodyguard Team
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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FlingitNow wrote:RaW it is a flat and clear no you can't for the reasons listed above by Zagman et al. RaI it appears that you can. GW doesn't seem to have a handle on how ICs join units during deployment. Look at Shrikes rules which read as a restriction on an action that you can't take. Hence why many TOs rule that this is allowed.
Basically the whole thing is an unclear mess and has been for at least 3 editions (Shrike needed a FAQ to work in 5th and they seemed to completely forget this issue during 6th and now 7th). However RaW is crystal clear that it is a big no.
About Shrike. Its horribly worded, but does grant permission to join a unit before deploying, and it can only be Jump Infantry. Despite, its terrible wording, he has permission to do it and gains that permission from that rule. Despite it being written ass backwards and gives the feeling the write assumed ICs could do that, which is and of itself not shocking that a codex writer was confused about the edition's rules.
Some Tournaments FAQed units could last edition, I believe BAO did. I for one never liked it was FAQed that way by TOs. But, now 7th is upon us and we will see if that becomes an issue yet again.
You are absolutely right, RAW its crystal clear, RAI is much murkier. We had Shrike for 6th as a indication of RAW, now with 7th, we are again in uncharted waters.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/30 21:47:45
Subject: Shadowsun Infultrate on Bodyguard Team
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Shrikes rule reads a bit like, say a law for a guy called Bob.
When Bob is randomly punching passers by in the street he can only punch them above the waste.
Is that permission for Bob to punch random people in the street? It strongly implies anyone can punch people and that Bob is restricted to punching above the waste.
Likewise Shrikes rule restricts him to joining jump units when he joins units before deployment. Which only makes sense if he already has permission to join units before deployment (which he doesn't) and restricts that action. As I say the whole thing is a bit of a mess. Though RaW is clear.
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