Question on the LOW slot.

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**DaPino**

So what exactly does qualify as a Lord of War in 7th edition? In the BRB it sais there is a selection from some codices and the escalation book. According to some people, this can be read as 'for example but not limited to...'

I've heard 2 arguments:
1) Only the things in the escalation book are LOW units as it was in 6th edition.
2) Everything that is a super-heavy/Gargantuan is a LOW as long as the rules don't say 'apocalypse only'.

Aren't these statements two sides of the same coin? Are there super-heavies that aren't from 'apocalypse only' nor from the escalation book?

**Brother Michael**

Imperial knights are a super-heavy but not a Lord of War. So definitely not #2.

**WrentheFaceless**

Everything in the Escalation book, and everything on the Forgeworld "Escalation approved" list I believe.

**DaPino**

WrentheFaceless wrote:
Everything in the Escalation book, and everything on the Forgeworld "Escalation approved" list I believe.

And where could I find a list of forgeworld escalation approved products? Because I've got people saying warhound titans are legal new in regular 40K, which I highly doubt.

**nosferatu1001**

On the forgeworld website. Yes war hounds are 40k legal

**DaPino**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
On the forgeworld website. Yes war hounds are 40k legal

Specific link? I know I can buy FW stuff on the FW site. :p

**nosferatu1001**

Downloads section, first column at the bottom.

**DaPino**

So a warhound titan is NOT legal in a regular game of 40K (outside of apocalypse), since it reads:

Chaos Warhound Titan IA: Apoc

**Elric Greywolf**

.....you need to read the whole document.

The top of the document says, "The following is a list of Forge World models that should be considered Lords of War choices and may therefore be taken using the guidelines detailed in Warhammer 40,000: Escalation, along with the publication in which the model’s most up to date rules can be found."

ALL the models in the document are LoW choices. The book that is listed after their name, per that quote I just gave, is where their rules can be found.
Unless you're trying to claim that "Imperial Armour: Aeronautica" is a game type, along with Apoc and Cities of Death? (It isn't.)

**rigeld2**

DaPino wrote:
So a warhound titan is NOT legal in a regular game of 40K (outside of apocalypse), since it reads:

Chaos Warhound Titan IA: Apoc

Perhaps you should read the text better?

The following vehicles may be chosen as Lords of War if your primary detachment is from Codex: Imperial Guard, Codex: Space Marines, Codex: Blood
Angels, Codex: Dark Angels, Codex: Grey Knights, Codex: Space Wolves or Codex: Adepta Sororitas. They may also be used in the following Imperial Armour
army lists: Imperial Guard Armoured Battle Group from Imperial Armour Volume 1 2nd edition, Death Korps of Krieg Siege Regiment from Imperial Armour
Volume 5, Tyrant’s Legion from Imperial Armour Volume 9, Space Marine Siege Assault Vanguard from Imperial Armour Volume 10, and the Death Korps of
Krieg Assault Brigade from Imperial Armour Volume 12.

Reaver Battle Titan WH40K: Apoc
Warhound Scout Titan WH40K: Apoc

CHAOS SPACE MARINES
The following vehicles may be chosen as Lords of War if your primary detachment is from Codex: Chaos Space Marines. They may also be used in the
following Imperial Armour army lists: Renegades and Heretics from Imperial Armour Volume 5, Renegades and Heretics – Servants of Slaughter from Imperial
Armour Volume 6, and the Renegades and Heretics – Servants of Decay from Imperial Armour Volume 7.

Chaos Reaver Battle Titan IA: Apoc
Chaos Warhound Titan IA: Apoc
Chaos Space Marine Thunderhawk Gunship IA: Apoc
Greater Brass Scorpion of Khorne IA: Apoc

**DaPino**

It just looks so unreal, bringing a reaver titan/warhound titan into a regular game of 40K. >.<

**Elric Greywolf**

Well, to be fair, they do cost a lot of points.
...which they more than make up 90% of the time, especially when shielded by a VSG.

If you don't have the resources to take on a Titan, just tell whoever it is that you don't want to play against that. Either you'll both find a different game, or he'll change his list because no other game is happening.

**chanceafs**

And remember... Forgeworld models and units (regardless of apocalypse or not) are only legal regular games of 40K if you're opponent and/or TO allow them. My gaming groups usually only allow people to run FW if there is plenty of warning in advance, or if the tournament is specifically set up for that purpose

**FlingitNow**

And remember... Forgeworld models and units (regardless of apocalypse or not) are only legal regular games of 40K if you're opponent and/or TO allow them. My gaming groups usually only allow people to run FW if there is plenty of warning in advance, or if the tournament is specifically set up for that purpose

Forgeworld stuff is just as legal as Necrons. You can always refuse to play against something if you don't think it will be a fun game. Be that Forgeworld, Necron flyer spam, a stompa or just a Space Marine army because you're bored of always fighting marines.

**chanceafs**

FlingitNow wrote:
And remember... Forgeworld models and units (regardless of apocalypse or not) are only legal regular games of 40K if you're opponent and/or TO allow them. My gaming groups usually only allow people to run FW if there is plenty of warning in advance, or if the tournament is specifically set up for that purpose

Forgeworld stuff is just as legal as Necrons. You can always refuse to play against something if you don't think it will be a fun game. Be that Forgeworld, Necron flyer spam, a stompa or just a Space Marine army because you're bored of always fighting marines.

True, but Forgeworld is also much less likely to be tournament legal... especially since a lot of Forgeworld stuff is very low costed for what it can do.

**Pyeatt**

chanceafs wrote:

True, but Forgeworld is also much less likely to be tournament legal... especially since a lot of Forgeworld stuff is very low costed for what it can do.

There's easily a dozen Dakka topics on this, and websites elsewhere with people arguing quite the other way. My opinion, they are very nice for filling niches, typically more overpriced for what they do. There are obviously a handful of underpriced "stand-out" units that people like to go crying about, but even those are less of a That-Guy move than Necron flier spam.

**Steve steveson**

chanceafs wrote:

especially since a lot of Forgeworld stuff is very low costed for what it can do.

It's really not. Most FW stuff is just as balanced as standard GW stuff (And we all know how balanced that is). There is some OP stuff, but there is from the GW stuff too. FW is more likely to be underpowered than over.

DaPino wrote:
So what exactly does qualify as a Lord of War in 7th edition? In the BRB it sais there is a selection from some codices and the escalation book. According to some people, this can be read as 'for example but not limited to...'

I've heard 2 arguments:
1) Only the things in the escalation book are LOW units as it was in 6th edition.
2) Everything that is a super-heavy/Gargantuan is a LOW as long as the rules don't say 'apocalypse only'.

Aren't these statements two sides of the same coin? Are there super-heavies that aren't from 'apocalypse only' nor from the escalation book?

Back to the original question. Neither is correct. Ghazghkull is now a Lord of War, I believe. He is not in the escalation book or a super-heavy.

What qualifies as a lord of war is something given the lord of war slot in its respective rules. Same as fast attack or heavy support.

**coredump**

Well, this completely depends on if you and your group think that FW is part of 'standard' 40K.

According to the 40K design team and their writings (the BRB), the LoW are from the Escalation book and codices. The BRB makes no mention of using the FW list.

FW, OTOH, has published a .pdf stating that you can use their models in a standard 40K game.

So it depends on whether you/your group thinks FW models and rules are to be considered part of standard 40K.

**ausYenLoWang**

coredump wrote:
Well, this completely depends on if you and your group think that FW is part of 'standard' 40K.

According to the 40K design team and their writings (the BRB), the LoW are from the Escalation book and codices. The BRB makes no mention of using the FW list.

FW, OTOH, has published a .pdf stating that you can use their models in a standard 40K game.

So it depends on whether you/your group thinks FW models and rules are to be considered part of standard 40K.

incorrect. as of 7th ed rule book FW is legal.
under army selection it tells you to refer to any GW publication be it dataslates white dwarf or anything printed by them, which FW is apart of.

**MajorWesJanson**

chanceafs wrote:
And remember... Forgeworld models and units (regardless of apocalypse or not) are only legal regular games of 40K if you're opponent and/or TO allow them. My gaming groups usually only allow people to run FW if there is plenty of warning in advance, or if the tournament is specifically set up for that purpose

OK, cool. So the Revenant Titan is permission only, despite it being in the Escalation book, as it is a FW model.

Or is the Revenant allowed, but not the Warhound, despite both being FW models and both having GW rules in Apoc, but only the Revenant was duplicated in the Escalation book?

**ausYenLoWang**

Wes read the above mate... its all guf, FW is approved under the 7th ed codex in its entirety, models army lists everything.