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Seems I have a few points to fill for my initial list and a tech on bike with the 4++ field comes in at 100pts.

Seems like a points sink, but does give the bike squad a 4++ vs. having to rely on jink right away.

Thoughts on how to use him, or if it is indeed worth it?

What is a refractor field and what book can I read the rules for it in?

Dark Angels and may not have named it right.

I think you mean Power Field Generator. But keep in mind it only gives a 4++ to models in its range, both friend and enemy. So it doesn't just give it to his unit, and can benefit the enemy.

But the way I use it is on a librarian with a black knight command squad.

Yep thats the one. I also was thinking about that and still possibly throwing in the tech marine to be an extra 2+ armor guy.

Techmarines should only get a pfg if your stuffing him in a troop carrier as he turns a deathwing vehicle into a godlike doom machine. (yes this is a legal tactic now).

Placing it on other hq's to shield your gunline and your fast attack choices isn't a bad idea so long as they stay mobile/ at range and don't get bogged down in close quarters.

That's the best approach one can take to fielding the pfg

For those wondering yes it does work on a vehicle inside a vehicle. It works also on those inside and anyone within 3" of its hull. And if your going to whine that's fine we will let the dice gods decide. And I will happily make you do the same for any inclusion by omission shenanigans you have.

So is the techi a good 65pt spend for just the bike and 2+ save option?

The question is do you need a techmarine, or could you get a librarian to do the same job with more versatility?

As to whether the PFG is worth it, well that depends on where you are going to put it and what you are going against.

If you are putting it in a landraider then it probably is. If you are facing cover ignoring low ap weapons (like tau) then again it probably is.

Running pure Ravenwing, so it is basically an extra 2+ wound. I have 2 HQ so can take 2 Techs and put the field on the libby.

I dont have any vehicles to repair so basically just seeing if he was worth throwing in.

Most folks here are running Marines and Eldar combos.

With the bike and pig I sometimes throw on a lightning claw for some healthy CC options and an extra attack and he supports whatever needs supporting

I know the command squad costs a little less than the fast att version of knights, but whats the right size?

Min for troop support or max and letting the troops support the knights?

The dark shroud got a boost this edition. I would look into that to boost survivability in your bikes.

That god awful landspeeder storm?

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
That god awful landspeeder storm?

No the other one that grants stealth to every unit in 6" of it.

Now when it jinks it gets a 2+ save but can still snapfire its weapon. Before to get the 2+ it had to jink and turbo boost and couldnt fire at all.

Ravenwing command squads should definitely be maxed, and have a banner as well.

Steel is absolutely right about the Darkshroud. It helps tremendously.

Does it benefit from its own shrouding ability?

It gives shoruding to itself, stealth to stuff thats 6" within his aoe. So yes he does

The banner of devastation works on the hurrican bolters on the Dark Talon, yes?

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
The banner of devastation works on the hurrican bolters on the Dark Talon, yes?

Yes.

Personally I dislike the darkshroud ATM, too many things that just ignore cover, but I see it's power.

Also the ravenwing army relies on alpha striking the enemy hard, because when your main damage dealing unit requires snap shots to hit its sucks.

What's everyone thinking off running in 7th?

Well, after playing two games tonight here are my thoughts:

My God everyone has crap to ignore cover. And the Plasma cannon is nice on Corvex, but I find myself wanting more shots to pump out vs. a small template.

I found the straight up 4+ from the PFG more comforting as stuff I would get Shroud on anyway was only putting me at a 4+. I can take multiple PFG on different units vs having to bunch them together to get under the shroud effect.

Maybe give Sammael the Shroud thing on Sableclaw and we're talking.

Overall, I LOVE the flexibility and speed of a bike army - especially thus far in this edition and hit n run. I like the ideas of the Rad grenades, but if your in HtH with this army you are doing it wrong.

I played daemons and marines tonight. Not too many fliers though. I don't think any of us played them. Still somewhat up in the air about the Psychic phase too, as I just used divination tonight.

May explore the fates on the others later.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
I like the ideas of the Rad grenades, but if your in HtH with this army you are doing it wrong.

As far as Black Knights go I think being in CC is a great place for them to be. Definitely not against serious CC opponents, but the grenades, corvus hammers, and hit and run all combined? If you aren't hiding in combat (so you don't have to waste shooting when you jink) you're wasting a lot of what you're paying for.

Black Knights:
Shoot Plasma and debuff Grenades
Charge (HoW)
4 Attacks each (S5 Rending..mmm)
H&R (auto with RW Banner)
Rinse, Repeat

I prefer to survive and unless you charging into a tarpit unit (which I agree is awesome to hide in and then HnR out of), it's iffy.

Again, maybe just who I played last night so we'll see how a few more games go.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
I prefer to survive and unless you charging into a tarpit unit (which I agree is awesome to hide in and then HnR out of), it's iffy.

Again, maybe just who I played last night so we'll see how a few more games go.

This conversation really speaks for RW being a finesse army. Always has been, always will be.
But I do agree with you. Knights shouldn't charge any unit they want, but they never fail to hit hard when they do.

Agreed. I would not recommend Ravenwing for a new player :^)

the two best ways to use a PFG is on a bike team with a librarian. or with a techmarine in a land raider. all other applications are secondary.

Well, played against Vulkan list last night.

He soaked up 10 tl plasma gun shots from the Knights, survived 2 turns of assault, and then 10 more tl plasma gun shots after I HnR.

Man of the match for sure.

I believe vs. other marine forces, I should not use the MSU - too easy to lose them with better shooting and to easy to give up victory points. Probably would have done better in a different scenario too.

Jink vs PFG is debatable. I've had really good success running units under the PFG and still able to fire for full effect vs. only being able to snap fire my next turn.

Sammael on Speeder needs more HP. 2 just doesn't do much unless you're going to go 14 all around.

Currently I am playing the following ravenwing/white scars list:
PRIMARY DETACHMENT:
HQ1 - Warlord : sammael on corvex [200 pts.]
HQ2: ravenwing command squad(120), apothecary(30), banner of devastation(65), 1 ravenwing grenade launcher(0) [215]
Troop 1 : ravenwing assault squad: 3 ravenwing bikes(80), 2 melta gun(20), meltabombs(5), attackbike (45), multi melta (10) [160]
Troop 2 : ravenwing assault squad: 3 ravenwing bikes(80), 2 melta gun(20), meltabombs(5), attackbike (45), multi melta (10) [160]
Troop 3 : ravenwing assault squad: 3 ravenwing bikes(80), 2 melta gun(20), meltabombs(5), attackbike (45), multi melta (10) [160]
Troop 4 : ravenwing assault squad: 3 ravenwing bikes(80), 2 melta gun(20), meltabombs(5), attackbike (45), multi melta (10) [160]

FA1: 3 black knights (126), 2 additional black knights (84), 1 ravenwing grenade launcher(0) [210 pts.]
FA2: dark shroud (80)

PRIMARY TOTAL [1345 pts.]

ALLIED DETACHMENT:

HQ1 : chapter master (130), artificier armour(20), bike (20), powerfist (25), shield eternal (50), auspex(5), digital weapons (10) [260]

Troop 1 : 5 bikers (105), 2 grav guns (30), combi grav (10) [145]

HS1: thunderfire cannon [100]

ALLIED TOTAL [505 pts.]

ARMY TOTAL [1850 pts.]

Tactics are usually as follows:
1. Sammael deploys with grav bikers to give them scout and skilled rider. Skilled rider+born in the saddle gives them 2+ cover without the speeder within 6". After the first turn sammael usually joins the command squad in order to keep them alive and turbo boost further so that they can profit from the dakka banner.
2. The chapter master joins the black knights as a shield. making saves so that the black knights do not need to jink and keep them effective. same goes in combat.
3. THe dark shroud is worth its weight in gold. Stealth greatly increases your chances of survival. The fact that it has a 2+ cover usually means that opponents neglect to shoot it all together.
4. The thunderfire cannon gives ravenwing an easy way to target units out of line of sight. It is also a nice objective holder for you home objective.
5. Don't be afraid to turbo boost. Sometimes it is better to give up a turn of shooting to get you out of range so that you can fire in the following turns without fear of getting charged and bogged down in combat.

Concerning the discussion is jink ruined our army:
I have played ravenwing almost exclusively since 7th dropped in preparation for the upcoming ETC in Serbia (I am part of the Dutch team). This means that I have played against some of the nastiest lists out there (tau with 3 tiptides+markerlights, grey knight and daemon psyker spam, necrons wraithwing and flyer wing and more). Having done so I can savely say that ravenwing can be very competitive. The fact that we have so many small dangerous units means that is almost impossible for an opponent to neutralize them all. When he is firing with weapons that force me to jink the bikers usually survive (due to stealth of the speeder) and this means that other bikers are not being shot at. THe next turn the same happens. Off course bikers will die, but even a lonely biker with a melta gun is a threat.

There are some lists that will be a real struggle such as tyranids with 5 FMCs, necrons with 5 flyers and armies which are really psyker heavy.

All in all I am of an opinion that ravenwing is to be played like a scalpel, not an axe. Strike hard at the right time at the right place.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Seems I have a few points to fill for my initial list and a tech on bike with the 4++ field comes in at 100pts.

Seems like a points sink, but does give the bike squad a 4++ vs. having to rely on jink right away.

Thoughts on how to use him, or if it is indeed worth it?

Orks pay 100 for identical field with 5++ save that doesn't help against templates. On a ld8 4+ character without invul and any specific weapons and abilities other than fix vehicles on a 5+ roll. And some orkses still take him cause it's a worthy boon for durability.

Your libby is a steal imo. Maybe not that mandatory for bikers since not many ap3 weapons ignore cover but he's golden vs tau. And sure a must if you run a number of vehicles aggressively.

Overall, I have not been displeased with how the army is playing.

I love running the MSU and having the ability to just zoom around the table is great.

I didn't realize SM bikers could take grav weapons on a bike.

That really has me thinking about utilizing at least a squad to pull from.

I played Centurions with grav weapons in that Vulkan list too. Those things are out of control