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So Aun'Va is a character, not an IC. I was thinking of a super fun unit to play for like a really funny maelstrom mission or something like that, and I was wondering if this would work. So take Farsight Allies to get Farsight and the Command Team, then get Oblitie (Broadside guy), and O'Vesa. Then take a Buffcommander and Aun'Va in a Tau Primary detachment.

So can you join all of the ICs into one unit. I believe that this is done by attaching everyone to Aun'Va. Is this how you do it? Does it work? Thanks and happy war gaming.

Yes, the rule about attaching to units on only one model is gone.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes, the rule about attaching to units on only one model is gone.

Ok, then since they are all with him (in the same unit) they all benefit from the Paradox of Duality save correct?

If that is how his save is worded, yes.

Thanks!

I believe this works. The rule says Aun'Va's unit, not Aun'Va model or only him

Of course if O'Vesa joins then nobody else will be able to join until he leaves.

 Happyjew wrote:
Of course if O'Vesa joins then nobody else will be able to join until he leaves.

How did you come to this conclusion? The plan is like I discribed above. O'Vesa 2+ save, FnP, and the Paradox Save. Does is not work?

Joining Units containing Monstrous Creatures are forbidden, O'vesa can still join other Units because nothing is said about an Monstrous Creature doing the joining.
I would also like to point out that Aun'va also comes with Ethereal Guards, so he never belonged to a Unit that consisted of a single Model to begin with.

JinxDragon wrote:
Joining Units containing Monstrous Creatures are forbidden, O'vesa can still join other Units because nothing is said about an Monstrous Creature doing the joining.
I would also like to point out that Aun'va also comes with Ethereal Guards, so he never belonged to a Unit that consisted of a single Model to begin with.

Sorry, I still don't get how making the super unit I discribed in my initial post can't be made because its illegal. It is it legal?

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
Joining Units containing Monstrous Creatures are forbidden, O'vesa can still join other Units because nothing is said about an Monstrous Creature doing the joining.
I would also like to point out that Aun'va also comes with Ethereal Guards, so he never belonged to a Unit that consisted of a single Model to begin with.

Sorry, I still don't get how making the super unit I discribed in my initial post can't be made because its illegal. It is it legal?

Its legal, it also was legal last edition too

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
Joining Units containing Monstrous Creatures are forbidden, O'vesa can still join other Units because nothing is said about an Monstrous Creature doing the joining.
I would also like to point out that Aun'va also comes with Ethereal Guards, so he never belonged to a Unit that consisted of a single Model to begin with.

Sorry, I still don't get how making the super unit I discribed in my initial post can't be made because its illegal. It is it legal?

7th edition stats ICs cannot join units with a monstrous creature in them. So you have to join ovesa last

CrownAxe is correct on what I was stating, it was always legal.
In this case however, just make sure that O'vesa joins last.

JinxDragon wrote:
CrownAxe is correct on what I was stating, it was always legal.
In this case however, just make sure that O'vesa joins last.

ie; 1st turn?

Are they not all joined at the same time? Or do you declare who you are adding to the unit in the order you are doing so?

IC rules are muddled by the fact they join at the 'end of their movement phase', which some interpret as the end of their move and others as at the end of the movement phase overall.

 Shandara wrote:
IC rules are muddled by the fact they join at the 'end of their movement phase', which some interpret as the end of their move and others as at the end of the movement phase overall.

So it sounds like yes it does work, but its questionable due to the RAW and RAI? Essentially I just wan't to know if I can try fielding it, legally.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
IC rules are muddled by the fact they join at the 'end of their movement phase', which some interpret as the end of their move and others as at the end of the movement phase overall.

So it sounds like yes it does work, but its questionable due to the RAW and RAI? Essentially I just wan't to know if I can try fielding it, legally.

The only issue here is O'vesa because its a MC and you can't join ICs to MCs now.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
IC rules are muddled by the fact they join at the 'end of their movement phase', which some interpret as the end of their move and others as at the end of the movement phase overall.

So it sounds like yes it does work, but its questionable due to the RAW and RAI? Essentially I just wan't to know if I can try fielding it, legally.

The only issue here is O'vesa because its a MC and you can't join ICs to MCs now.

Right, but your not doing that. Your joining an IC to a Character. It works that way if he is joined last, no matter who else is in the unit. Also, no matter, they are all joining a Character (Aun'Va), there abilities are conferred on the unit because everyone else is joined to him.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
IC rules are muddled by the fact they join at the 'end of their movement phase', which some interpret as the end of their move and others as at the end of the movement phase overall.

So it sounds like yes it does work, but its questionable due to the RAW and RAI? Essentially I just wan't to know if I can try fielding it, legally.

The only issue here is O'vesa because its a MC and you can't join ICs to MCs now.

Right, but your not doing that. Your joining an IC to a Character. It works that way if he is joined last, no matter who else is in the unit. Also, no matter, they are all joining a Character (Aun'Va), there abilities are conferred on the unit because everyone else is joined to him.

Not quite. It's not that you can't join IC's to MC's, it's that you can't join ICs to units containing MCs. So while you may be joining your ICs to Aun'va, once O'Vesa joins the unit contains an MC and no more ICs can join.

Chrysis wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
IC rules are muddled by the fact they join at the 'end of their movement phase', which some interpret as the end of their move and others as at the end of the movement phase overall.

So it sounds like yes it does work, but its questionable due to the RAW and RAI? Essentially I just wan't to know if I can try fielding it, legally.

The only issue here is O'vesa because its a MC and you can't join ICs to MCs now.

Right, but your not doing that. Your joining an IC to a Character. It works that way if he is joined last, no matter who else is in the unit. Also, no matter, they are all joining a Character (Aun'Va), there abilities are conferred on the unit because everyone else is joined to him.

Not quite. It's not that you can't join IC's to MC's, it's that you can't join ICs to units containing MCs. So while you may be joining your ICs to Aun'va, once O'Vesa joins the unit contains an MC and no more ICs can join.

Ok, I get it, thanks for the help guys!

Of course, it gets a bit hairy given that the rules don't cover what happens when a unit you joined becomes a unit you are forbidden from joining while you're still attached. Or what happens when the ability to join together isn't transitive. O'Vesa can join any IC he wants to form an IC super unit, but no IC can ever join a unit containing O'Vesa.

If O'vesa joins, first last or any other way an IC and MC ARE NOT Allowed to be in the same unit. Aun' VA has body guards and is iirc not allowed to join others.

I'm pretty sure it's 'not allowed to join'. Besides, in that case, O'vessa ceases to exist because he can't be in a unit with himself.

Lungpickle wrote:
If O'vesa joins, first last or any other way an IC and MC ARE NOT Allowed to be in the same unit. .

There is no rule preventing ICs and MCs from being in the same unit, just the one that says that IC's can't join them. If they happen to find themselves in the same unit without the IC having joined the MC, that's perfectly legal as the rules currently stand.


I would be fairly confident that it's an oversight, though, and that if GW ever bother to update their FAQs again it will be closed out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chrysis wrote:
Of course, it gets a bit hairy given that the rules don't cover what happens when a unit you joined becomes a unit you are forbidden from joining while you're still attached.

They don't need to. A rule forbidding you from entering a building doesn't apply to someone who is already in the building.

Or what happens when the ability to join together isn't transitive. O'Vesa can join any IC he wants to form an IC super unit, but no IC can ever join a unit containing O'Vesa.

That one just comes down to whether you interpret the bit about the 'end of their movement phase' as meaning their [the IC's] movement phase or their [the IC's army's movement phase.


Which actually makes me reconsider my stance on this one... The IC doesn't have a movement phase of their own... there is only the one movement phase per turn. So the IC rule has to be referring to the latter interpretation above.

If that's the case, then if you have multiple ICs joining a unit in the same turn, they would all be joining at the same time. In which case, the regular IC is joining the MC IC at the same time as the MC IC is joining the other... Which would render the combination impossible.

Just a reminder:
If multiple Rules trigger at the same point in the time-line we have instructions to determine which occurs first.
Multiple versions of the same Rule are still multiple Rules needing to be resolved.

JinxDragon wrote:
Just a reminder:
If multiple Rules trigger at the same point in the time-line we have instructions to determine which occurs first.
Multiple versions of the same Rule are still multiple Rules needing to be resolved.

So with multiple ICs joining, you can detirmine which one joins first? Then letting O'Vesa join last, and having it work!?

It only works if you ignore both context and definition. The end result whether you join first or last, is that you have a IC and a MC joined together.

So basically everything works if O'vesa joins last and falls apart if O'vesa joins first. I don't think anyone with a straight face can say this is RAI.

This just seems to take advantage of imprecise language on GW's part.



should read



In order to have a decent set of rules we need to be bold and clean up the obvious messes like this one.

Where does it say that if the same of one rule goes off at once we have to allocate which is first/last etc.?