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Hi all,

This isn't yet another GW hate thread, but arises from escalating frustration with their sales tactics.

I'm a perennial gamer and GW lover/hater. Having played orks since 2nd ed, I was excited to get my hands on the second update in years. With ed 6th only having been released 2 years ago, I haven't yet updated to 7th, and wasn't sure I'd need to.

The problem is, GW cynicism knows no bounds. I've just worked out that I'll need to buy supplements etc to use certain units (e.g. looted wagons). The codex is not fully compatible with 6th (deciphered unit types). I'm not quite sure what a "Lords of War" type is, and it's not in the 6th ed. rules. It appears I need to buy the escalation supplement to make this work.

Fortunately, the old ork dex is still useable in 6th, with some units better (shoota boyz) and some worse (war bikers) in the old codex. It could certainly still be competitive. Most (?all) armies had a decent 6th-ed compatible codex.

What do other people think? I know it's ultimately up to my gaming group, but this seems a good way to get off the GW money sink. With a coherent rule-set, saved errata and a decent book for most armies, is it worth staying with 6th?

Ludo

It really completely depends on your gaming group.
It would only be worth staying with 6th if your friends do so as well. No use saving money if you end up having anyone to play with anymore (you could play against yourself I suppose).
If enough people stay with 6th, it would definitely be worth it. 6th was a solid edition, and the Orks I played against usually fared rather well.
Otherwise, prepare to get voluntarily robbed by GW.

I'd say objectively pull the data from the complaints and praise, make a list, decide if it's a pro or a con, and make the decision if it's worth both the time to learn the new rules and expend whatever monetary cost is for your location.

If you're not going to consider another tabletop game (it's worth doing), then compare what 7th does:
- adds psychic phase
- adds unbound and detachment shenanigans (can ignore or add to 6th easily)
- A number of small tweaks (can add to 6th easily, ie. los from any part of the model)
- Adds Maelstrom of War (some like due to changing gameplay, some think flawed due to randomness over skill)

If I played still, I'd stay with 6th and just modify any new codex (obtained online) as necessary to work with 6th.

doctorludo wrote: I know it's ultimately up to my gaming group

Right.

As for 6th vs. 7th, the new version is the old one with a bunch of annoying little things fixed. 6th is the proverbial windows Vista - a new project that didn't work all that great that was made more workable by its successor, windows 7.

To continue the analogy, though, why not use windows XP? 5th edition was sort of the pinnacle of what they were trying to do since the break from 2nd. Your old ork codex will work fine there and so, with pretty minimal modifications will any other codex printed in 6th ed. All you've got to do is fix wound wrapping (which is easy) and you're going to be working with a more stable platform.

Of course, if you don't have any 5th ed stuff, then never mind. If you want to keep playing 6th, then that's just fine as well. Like you said, it's what everybody else wants to do, not what GW wants you to do that is what really matters in the end.

I had gathered the impression that between 6th and 7th there were only minor tweaks to the rules, except for the inclusion of the Magic Phase from Fantasy which is a pretty big new chunk of stuff.

For what it's worth, all the people at my FLGS have loved 7th so far, even the people who hated 6th.

 TheKbob wrote:
I'd say objectively pull the data from the complaints and praise, make a list, decide if it's a pro or a con, and make the decision if it's worth both the time to learn the new rules and expend whatever monetary cost is for your location.

This.
Figure out your priorities. Maybe its time to expand into another game? Try something new?
My store went head first into 7th and I did not. So, I play Warmachine there and soon Infinity. Learning a new game will give you a different perspective on the whole hobby that I find healthy. What conclusions you come up with, I have no idea, but either way you might learn something very rewarding.

You might also consider to TRY 7th edition. you just might enjoy it after all.

LoW is in the core rules of 7th, its basically a 1-per-primary-detachment thing that consists mostly of supersized stuff, or (starting at 7th) the super heroes of factions.
The 7th edition rule changes also make them far more balanced (as D weapons got changed so they are no longer absurd, the multi-D superheavies are no longer game braking, still scary, but usually not very good anyway)

As for other changes in 7th, the psyker change is massive both in powers wise and the new mechanics, and puts a stop to the whole "spam divination/biomancy/whatever" thing that was going on, making psykers more of a choice rather then a "why are you not maxing this" thing.

Then you got some changes to how FMC work so they are no longer the most annoying crap ever, a few generic rules gets cleaned up or rebalanced (split fire and counter attack no longer take LD test, blind works per phase rather then per unit, defensive grenades got changed, etc.)

Honestly, the flow is just better. and if you dislike the Malstorm missions due to randomness (I disagree, but understand the taste), the existing Eternal War missions are still there.
You don't even have to buy anything, just get ahold of a net copy (there are a few running around, but I don't think I am allowed to point you to one) and use that one.

ArbitorIan's ref sheets also cover pretty much the entire rulebook if you know the basics good enough to use them (and as you played 6th, you should) and they CAN be legally pointed to here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/597998.page
Its pretty much the entire 7th edition rulebook except the missions (you can stick to 6th missions, they are still in 7th after all) and unit profiles compiled into 7 pages of tight written, well ordered PDF file, going from as basic as "how do you shoot" to things like special rules, psyker powers and building damage table.
Really, everything you ever need that isn't in a codex to lpay 7th, is there.

7th edition is really more of 6.5. There aren't many changes but most have been for the better. In addition to some of the previous points, vehicles have gotten a little bit heartier. They no longer explode unless your using a weapon with melta, armorbane, or ap 2 or better. Also half the options are now crew shaken for penetration hits. Also it's nice to get the maelstrom of war missions in the rulebook. Lord knows we've played the regular ones to death XD.

doctorludo wrote:
I've just worked out that I'll need to buy supplements etc to use certain units (e.g. looted wagons).

The looted wagon was taken away since it didn't have a model and GW new philosophy is if no mini no rules for it. GW saw how a lot of people were upset over this. Since the Ork Codex was made 6 months ago, a year ago, it was too late to change it. So GW allowed the rule back in a White Dwarf magazine so people can use it. This wasn't planned and there is no evil agenda here. GW did something that people wanted back. Or so it was said.

So not sure what you mean by buying supplements for the looted wagon as an example.

That being said, why not stick with 6th? People still play 2nd edition so play any edition that makes it more fun for you and your group.

If you have a private gaming group that plays 6th. Great!