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If a chaos sorcerer rolls three dice for a Warp charge 1 spell and he gets a 6,1,2 the test is past.

Does the spell familiar allow him to reroll the 2 misses even though he passed the test?

RB wrote:
If a chaos sorcerer rolls three dice for a Warp charge 1 spell and he gets a 6,1,2 the test is past.

Does the spell familiar allow him to reroll the 2 misses even though he passed the test?

The spell familiar allows you to re-roll failed psychic tests right?

If yes then you answered your own question.

Test is not failed so spell fam. doesnt kick in

Also, when you have a warp charge 2 spell and you have a 6,1 and 2, you have to pick up the 6 as well when you re-roll.

You re-roll the test, not dice from the test.

DaPino wrote:
Also, when you have a warp charge 2 spell and you have a 6,1 and 2, you have to pick up the 6 as well when you re-roll.

You re-roll the test, not dice from the test.

Please note that the above quote is only one possible interpretation of the rules and that an FAQ is needed regarding this matter.

Nope,the test is the whole dice roll, and as such is the only actually supportable answer.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

DaPino wrote:
Also, when you have a warp charge 2 spell and you have a 6,1 and 2, you have to pick up the 6 as well when you re-roll.

You re-roll the test, not dice from the test.

ou

Please note that the above quote is only one possible interpretation of the rules and that an FAQ is needed regarding this matter.

I know it's one interpretation and there are others but this is the RAW as I read it.

1)To perform a deny-the-witch test you roll the chosen amount of dice. If you re-roll the test, all dice are re-rolled. When you're able to re-roll a failed Ld test, you aren't allowed to re-roll one dice and leave the other (I think this is a very similar case).
2) Some special rules specifically state that you are able to pick the dice you want to re-roll (like Fleet allows you to re-roll 'one or more dice').
Since it is not specifically stated that you are allowed to re-roll the dice of your choosing, I would say that, you have to re-roll both successes and fails since that would fall more in line with other special rules.

If we're speaking RAI, either option is possible and I'd be happy if I'd be able to re-roll fails without having to re-roll my successes. It'd be only better for me since I roll spell familiar on all my psykers.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

DaPino wrote:
Also, when you have a warp charge 2 spell and you have a 6,1 and 2, you have to pick up the 6 as well when you re-roll.

You re-roll the test, not dice from the test.

Please note that the above quote is only one possible interpretation of the rules and that an FAQ is needed regarding this matter.

Please elaborate on this.
What other definition of "test" can there be? SF allows you to reroll the test, not any dice you want from the test.

I've already discussed this at length in the previous threads on this topic and have no burning desire to repeat the same arguments. You should be able to find them by searching though if you're interested.

At least post the link if you are not going to back up your statement here, or else people whom read just this thread will think you are refusing to support your stance at all.

 Tonberry7 wrote:
I've already discussed this at length in the previous threads on this topic and have no burning desire to repeat the same arguments. You should be able to find them by searching though if you're interested.

Concession accepted, as you will not abide by the tenets.

Your arguments were thoroughly, totally debunked in the prior thread as well...

JinxDragon wrote:
At least post the link if you are not going to back up your statement here, or else people whom read just this thread will think you are refusing to support your stance at all.

Fair point. I just didn't have much time earlier and this has already been covered in recent threads.

Look at the rules for rerolling under the core rules section. It says pick the dice you wish to reroll except if you're making a 2D6 or 3D6 roll you have to reroll all of the dice.

So if you roll 4 or more dice, RAW you can pick which ones to re-roll. The individual dice rolls are still part of the test. I can't see how it could be argued that the rolls you're making are not the psychic test.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
At least post the link if you are not going to back up your statement here, or else people whom read just this thread will think you are refusing to support your stance at all.

Fair point. I just didn't have much time earlier and this has already been covered in recent threads.

Look at the rules for rerolling under the core rules section. It says pick the dice you wish to reroll except if you're making a 2D6 or 3D6 roll you have to reroll all of the dice.

So if you roll 4 or more dice, RAW you can pick which ones to re-roll. The individual dice rolls are still part of the test. I can't see how it could be argued that the rolls you're making are not the psychic test.

Part of the test is not the same as test

The rolls as a whole are the test. You are allowed to reroll "the failed test", not specific parts of the test.

This is different to e.g. failed to-hit rolls with an assault 3 weapon - each of those is a discrete "roll to-hit" and so can be rerolled, as you determine success or failure per dice. Here you only determine success or failure of the test, not on an individual dice level (except the degenrate, single dice case, but conceptually it is the same)

So you have a psychic test on 3 dice, the set {x, y, z} is the test. If the set is {s, f, f,} on a WC2 power, the test itself has failed, and you are told you can reroll the failed test. Nowhere does it state you can reroll the individual dice used within the test, and it does not state you can reroll failed attampts to manifest warp charge, which is what each dice roll is. Meaning your argument lacks rules support in at least 2 dimensions.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
At least post the link if you are not going to back up your statement here, or else people whom read just this thread will think you are refusing to support your stance at all.

Fair point. I just didn't have much time earlier and this has already been covered in recent threads.

Look at the rules for rerolling under the core rules section. It says pick the dice you wish to reroll except if you're making a 2D6 or 3D6 roll you have to reroll all of the dice.

So if you roll 4 or more dice, RAW you can pick which ones to re-roll. The individual dice rolls are still part of the test. I can't see how it could be argued that the rolls you're making are not the psychic test.

Part of the test is not the same as test

The rules for re rolling are quite clear on how to reroll dice as I have already quoted. If you're aware of other rules detailing how to reroll a failed psychic test please feel free to quote them in support of your point.

You are right, re-rolling rules are very clear:

If you decide to roll 4D6 for a Psychic test, you must re-roll 4D6. You've said it yourself:
"if you're making a 2D6 or 3D6 roll you have to reroll all of the dice."

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
At least post the link if you are not going to back up your statement here, or else people whom read just this thread will think you are refusing to support your stance at all.

Fair point. I just didn't have much time earlier and this has already been covered in recent threads.

Look at the rules for rerolling under the core rules section. It says pick the dice you wish to reroll except if you're making a 2D6 or 3D6 roll you have to reroll all of the dice.

So if you roll 4 or more dice, RAW you can pick which ones to re-roll. The individual dice rolls are still part of the test. I can't see how it could be argued that the rolls you're making are not the psychic test.

Part of the test is not the same as test

The rules for re rolling are quite clear on how to reroll dice as I have already quoted. If you're aware of other rules detailing how to reroll a failed psychic test please feel free to quote them in support of your point.

Yes, you Reroll the whole test, not part of it. As has been explained many times.

The rules are, for once, quite clear, you're just conflating two concepts.

 BlackTalos wrote:
You are right, re-rolling rules are very clear:

If you decide to roll 4D6 for a Psychic test, you must re-roll 4D6. You've said it yourself:
"if you're making a 2D6 or 3D6 roll you have to reroll all of the dice."

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. I never said you must reroll 4D6. A 4D6 roll is neither a 2D6 or 3D6 roll.

I just re-read the equivalent section and just have to laugh at Game Workshop's screw-up within, I never gave it all that much thought till now....
While it is clearly not intended, Tonyberry7 is technically correct! The Rule specifically states what to do when a 2D6 or 3D6 is re-rolled, but it never outright states that those are just two examples or that we do the same thing with all 'multiple Dice Rolls/Tests.' Because the Rule itself is restricted to just 2d6 and 3d6 rolls, the requirement within to roll all the dice must also be restricted to just 2d6 and 3d6 Rolls. However, it could also be argued that we lack a mechanism in which to Re-roll these tests, so therefore they can not be re-rolled....

After all, we are told to Re-Roll the entire Test, which is multiple dice, so the Rules for re-rolling individual Die would not come into play.

Reading that page carefully, it does seem that it does not say "3D6 or other", so indeed, anything pas 3 Dice is not "in the RaW".

Exactly as you say, because the 4D6 (it was just an example, your roll could have been 5D6 or 6D6) is not within rules, you are therefore not allowed the re-roll.

It is simply the perfect example of a new mechanism (one test - multiple Dice) that is not fully bound withing the rules.

As previously said, it does not change the fact that we are told to Re-Roll the entire Test, which is multiple dice, so the Rules for re-rolling individual Die would not come into play

Reviewing 6th editions wording shows it was a problem there as well, given that some things called for multiple D3's or more then 3d6.
For example, Turbo-Penetrator Rounds roll 4d6 for armour penetration.