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I've noticed something that previously didn't catch my attention on Chainswords. Unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks like a Chainsword offers no statistical advantage over wielding nothing at all. According to the "Rules" even if a model has no melee weapon at all, then it is considered having a "Close Combat" weapon that is STR - User and AP -

Looking at the standard Chainsword the stats are the same. STR - User and AP - So are they trying to say that a combat knife is just as effective in close combat as a giant Chainsword, or am I misinterpreting the rules? To me, that would be silly . . . and Chainsword would be a much more effective weapon that a combat knife. What gives?

That's exactly what the rules are saying. A chainsword, a crude handmade axe, or a combat knife are all Close Combat Weapons that strike at the user's strength and AP-.

WEAK! That annoys my sense of fluff, Power Swords for all then!

Basically two things - coarse stat values and simplicity.

Strength and AP are coarse enough stats for there to be little difference between a chainsword and a combat knife, or if you did include a difference, it would be so slight that it wouldn't be worth paying points for.

There used to be a difference, in ages past, which brings us to point two. It was probably decided to lump chainswords in with other close combat weapons for simplicity, back in the great rules-cull of 3rd edition. Something like AP6 might be appropriate, but it's such an inconsequential change it's easier to simply leave out.

They gave special rules to chain axes. Be thankful you didn't get that treatment.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
Something like AP6 might be appropriate, but it's such an inconsequential change it's easier to simply leave out.

Excellent illustration, yes I agree the difference is minimal to be sure, but it helps wrap my head around it "fluff wise" ...and I like me some fluff! I mean come on, wouldn't a huge screeching chainblade with Adamantium teeth be a more formidable weapon that say a...."sharpened stick?" LOL.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
They gave special rules to chain axes. Be thankful you didn't get that treatment.

Yeah true that. I'm not complaining about imbalance or anything either, just trying to find some sense in the fluff aspect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah hell....they (Chainswords) still look cool as hell though! And they are annoyingly loud!

I thought that at some point some codex or rulebook had chainswords at AP6? I'm almost certain I read that somewhere but now I can't find any reference to it. Am I crazy?

One other point is that they do cost 5 points to upgrade. If you replace your Bolt pistol or Boltgun with a Chainsword it costs 5 points. Since there is no statistical benefit you end up paying 5 points for the appearance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Errr...on second thought maybe it is a free upgrade. I don't have the book in front of me so can't look it up.

It's a free upgrade, and in that case you do gain the extra attack in CC (sergeants don't come with a CCW base as the bolt pistol counts), but yeah, it is silly that a SM punching a guy is as dangerous as 6 feet of spinning saw blades.

Striking Scorpion Chainswords give a +1 Str and are AP 6. It's just the weakness of the imperium. lol

 Paradigm wrote:
It's a free upgrade, and in that case you do gain the extra attack in CC (sergeants don't come with a CCW base as the bolt pistol counts), but yeah, it is silly that a SM punching a guy is as dangerous as 6 feet of spinning saw blades.

A bit dead is functionally the same as a lot dead!

 azreal13 wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
It's a free upgrade, and in that case you do gain the extra attack in CC (sergeants don't come with a CCW base as the bolt pistol counts), but yeah, it is silly that a SM punching a guy is as dangerous as 6 feet of spinning saw blades.

A bit dead is functionally the same as a lot dead!

The Xenos filth are never dead enough!

So it's a bit like "kind of pregnant"?

 azreal13 wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
It's a free upgrade, and in that case you do gain the extra attack in CC (sergeants don't come with a CCW base as the bolt pistol counts), but yeah, it is silly that a SM punching a guy is as dangerous as 6 feet of spinning saw blades.

A bit dead is functionally the same as a lot dead!

Tell that to the dreadnoughts. They are a bit dead, and still kicking.

Nah, dreadnoughts are mostly dead, there's a difference!

 azreal13 wrote:
Nah, dreadnoughts are mostly dead, there's a difference!

Apothecary: Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your battle-brother here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.
Marine: What's that?
Apothecary: Go through his wargear and look for loose ammo.

Inconceivable!

You keep saying that, I don think it means what you think it means.

I like where this thread has gone.

Just look out for the RUSSes.

So is mostly dead and partially alive the same thing. Like, If I hacked off a space marines arms and 1 leg ( yeh I can do that) for all intents and purposes he is mostly dead can you rrreeeaaaallly class him as partially alive?

I always thought it would be cool to give chain weapons a rule that reduces the armour save instead of ap. so maybe a chainsword reduces it by 1, a chainaxe by 2 and so on.

pax_imperialis wrote:
I always thought it would be cool to give chain weapons a rule that reduces the armour save instead of ap. so maybe a chainsword reduces it by 1, a chainaxe by 2 and so on.

That mechanic went away with 2nd edition, but I always liked it.

By giving chainswords the Rending USR would make 'em actually reasonable, and without breaking the system.

Seems a bit over the top to me. I'd just add some AP.

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Striking Scorpion Chainswords give a +1 Str and are AP 6. It's just the weakness of the imperium. lol

I read somewhere that they lodge into armor and flesh then the chain starts; the imperial chainswords are running when they touch the target making them jam and less effective.

 Tigramans wrote:
By giving chainswords the Rending USR would make 'em actually reasonable, and without breaking the system.

I like the sound of that, something at least. Those teeth would certainly give you a bit of an edge getting through armor. /nod

I'm not sure Rending would represent them, to be honest. The increased damage of a Chainsword comes from the effect the teeth have on flesh and soft tissues, rather than giving any real help against armour (it's not like they're holding down long enough to saw through). Basically, if a chain-weapon gets through your armour, you've had it, but against the armour itself it's as effective as anything else.

Personally, I'd give them a re-roll 1s to wound, as I think that would better represent them without being as powerful as Shred, which is too much.

Chain weapons always struck me as a bit stupid, they would be far less effective on thick armour plate than the fluff makes out.

Give me a power sword anyday.

 throwoff wrote:
Chain weapons always struck me as a bit stupid, they would be far less effective on thick armour plate than the fluff makes out.

Give me a power sword anyday.

Indeed, it tends to bounce off any sort of armour that is reasonably effective. In fact, when you chainsword duel, you block the blade with the metal guard on the back. You wouldn't do that if there was potential to damage it.

But against humans in flak, orks in pants and Tyranids with skin it works pretty well.