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So out of boredom a friend and I started talking ideas and originality and where inspiration comes from. It started from me saying "no idea is not inspired from an event or nature."

So I think all Fiction, theory and so forth is a result of historical events or nature such as 40k is taken from history and other peoples ideas, who where taken from history and other ideas etc.

He thinks that ideas arent all taken from something else. He used Dragons as an example of something original. A bit shocking I thought. I think Dragons are inspired from many many things (mythology, mix of creatures and so on).

So do you think its possible for an idea to be 100% Original?

Ignoring things such as "if the creature has teeth then its already done by nature" for example. Even though i think this is proof enough. But for the sake of exploring other possibilities we can ignore those.

I think I have explained it...

You'll find this idea around on the net if you look. Essentially there are only 7 kinds of stories, every piece of fiction being derivative of them;

-The Quest
-Overcoming the Monster
-Rags to Riches
-The Voyage
-The Tragedy
-The Comedy
-The Rebirth

These seven can further be boiled down to 3 basic core concepts;

-Man vs Man
-Man vs Self
-Man vs Nature/God

You could even go further and break down Man vs Self and Man vs Man as basically being the same thing. So really, there's no such thing as an original idea. Just an old idea told in a new way.

 LordofHats wrote:
You'll find this idea around on the net if you look. Essentially there are only 7 kinds of stories, every piece of fiction being derivative of them;

-The Quest
-Overcoming the Monster
-Rags to Riches
-The Voyage
-The Tragedy
-The Comedy
-The Rebirth

These seven can further be boiled down to 3 basic core concepts;

-Man vs Man
-Man vs Self
-Man vs Nature/God

You could even go further and break down Man vs Self and Man vs Man as basically being the same thing. So really, there's no such thing as an original idea. Just an old idea told in a new way.

What about Man vs Food? Aha! I win.

Drats. Foiled again!

You suggest that ideas aren't just made up, but come from sources - then cite mythology as a source.

Where do you think dragons in mythology came from? Real dragons?

A mix of real world events or creatures exaggerated and mixed into a standard story format.

A dragon was probably a mix of bones and creatures found that where slowly change over time to become what we see today.

Like a centaur as a basic example is just a horse and man attached etc.it all comes from somewhere.

God.

kb_lock wrote:
You suggest that ideas aren't just made up, but come from sources - then cite mythology as a source.

Where do you think dragons in mythology came from? Real dragons?

Yes, from real dragons......or more accurately, modern day dinosaurs.

I'm talking about the Komodo Dragon, Giant Monitor lizards, Alligators and Crocodiles.
The flying tree snakes could easily have been the source for the traditional Flying Chinese dragons. Mix in a Komodo Dragon and the look comes together.

Now this does not mean that I believe that there is no original thought, just that dragons are not the huge leap in creativity when you consider that at one point the planet was dominated by great lizards.

For me, true creative inspiration is seen in savants. People who have no education or exposure to certain complex subjects but take one look at a problem and the answer just appears in their mind.

Later,
ff

 focusedfire wrote:

kb_lock wrote:
You suggest that ideas aren't just made up, but come from sources - then cite mythology as a source.

Where do you think dragons in mythology came from? Real dragons?

Yes, from real dragons......or more accurately, modern day dinosaurs.

I'm talking about the Komodo Dragon, Giant Monitor lizards, Alligators and Crocodiles.
The flying tree snakes could easily have been the source for the traditional Flying Chinese dragons. Mix in a Komodo Dragon and the look comes together.

Now this does not mean that I believe that there is no original thought, just that dragons are not the huge leap in creativity when you consider that at one point the planet was dominated by great lizards.

For me, true creative inspiration is seen in savants. People who have no education or exposure to certain complex subjects but take one look at a problem and the answer just appears in their mind.

Later,
ff

Oh? "Dragons" were invented long before dinosaurs were known about, and even then, the pictures that we have of dinosaurs are our best guesses based on their skeletons, and may not have looked anything like that. The concept of fire breathing monsters is, I would guess (but have less ability to prove than anyone does to disprove), simply something that cave-man parents told their cave-man kids so they didn't stay out after dark or be little cave-jerks. Does this make "the boogeyman" original thought?

Further, komodos, monitors, crocs - none of those are 50' long, have wings or breathe fire.

But, this does steer it around to an interesting point, which you also hit onto as well FF - how much is enough to make it original?

There is a philosophical debate about a ship, I will paraphrase it heavily;

If I take the USS Nimitz, a gigantic nuclear supercarrier, and replace a single bolt - is it still the same ship? What If I replace a hundred bolts? Some armour? All the armour? How much do I need to change until it is not the same ship? 25%? 100%? If I take a single bolt off the Nimitz and put it on say the Eisenhower, does that make it the Nimitz instead? If I paired half the Nimitz with half the Eisenhower, which half is which?

Anyway, I came here to nerd up and paint little future space warriors - not contemplate the mysteries of philosophy, I should probably go

Thats a good part of the argument though. I guess it depends what you consider original.

If it means anything I ended up winning the argument. So no more discussion is needed beyond interest.

I think there have been a number of original ideas in science and mathematics.

Mendel got his idea on genetics from peas. Newton from a falling apple etc. Plus science etc is observing the world so couldnt call it original. The idea came from observation...

Maths well maybe... yea math might be one of the exceptions.