Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys.

First of all im a chronic re roller... even if i win with an army.. i'll find a downside to it. And then change after spending short of 1k. im not bothered about playing an army thats uber powerful or 'broken' i just want an army that i can fall in love with, and i tend to do that with a very 'different' style of army. I want to enjoy all the history, the models, and the entire concept of an army. And to be honest the army thats drawing my attention at the moment is Brettonians. I love the fact you can field an entire mounted army, that crashes into their enemies, with support of peasant bowman and trebuchets! The whole 'virtue' system in their army only adds to the character of them, all of which i love

I'll try to sum up my hysterical rambling by pointed out my current annoyance: I collect Dark Elves. There is no uniqueness about them since wood elves have come out 'IN MY OPINION' since they gain murderess prowess in the woods. (which again in my opinion is an awesome unique concept!!) they also get unique arrows that they can add to their army! " i've got a tyrant!" of well he's got a Tree hugging hippie archer version with a 1000000 D6 shot bow in my face. and its not just with wood elves... its most other armies i find. Ogres are the only army that get impact hits, cannot be KB, and can stomp. Vamps can raise the dead and power up their lord, Empire have the supporting fire and detachment rule... i think for me 'PERSONALLY' i just think that im falling in love with the bretonnian old book... i love the idea of them and i find them a very unique army. Nobody else fields a cav army like them, nobody else have virtues like them, and their history is great.

Does this make sense to anyone else or am i being a fool?

thankyou to anyone who responds

Yes they have an awesome background. Yes it's nice to have a full cavalry army(although HE, WoC, TK ,WE, O&G, Empire can do it too). But they have too many weaknesses, and their book is mess practical than the rest of the books.

Yeah i know other armies can also do full cav armies but i just think bretonnians can do it better.. more practical as you said, But does anyone else agree with me on the dark elf situation? That it feels like i just have duplicates of other armies units, just mashed together. i Just feel as though brets are that little different

You could make a similar case for most armies, not just Dark Elves. I don't really see how Wood Elves having magic arrows and a Treeman makes Dark Elves a duplicate army...

No you're missing the point, either that or I'm not explaining myself very well :/ I understand that a lot of armies field the same, or similar units in most cases, but it's the accessibility to more unique abilities in say, then vampire counts raising the deal, or ogre kingdoms bull charge, or wood elves access to sorrows, the ability to teleport from woods to woods, or how their entire army has benefits to being in said woods. Or even how most of their army comes equipped with a bow that they can customise to whom ever they fight (granted it comes with a cost)... to me... like I've stated before, are more unique armies that don't just field armies that have *unit with great weapon*, *unit with two attacks*, *cav unit* I know it's personal but they all seem to have a theme or rule that no army has access to. Armies that make them feel that little different. The most unique unit in delves are probably the doom fire warlocks as I can't think of any other unit like that in the game, and for most delves players they are auto include. I know this probably sounds like I'm being derogatory and bias against dark elves but after reading the dark elf book compared to others.. I personally just found it boring?..

I think I get your point. Although Murderous Prowess or DE (and other abilities like the Dwarf ones) are technically unique, they're not quite as "unique" or as "different" as, say, raising dead, or being able to take detachments. Murderous Prowess is just an ability, whereas the others are more of a whole new dynamic. Am I right?

Personally, I don't think it makes an army less unique than another, but I think I see where you're coming from...

No I know it's not making armies less unique as the armies have different models and different history but I think that's what you said, with regards to have the mechanics of the army works.. I'd just like something a little different , would you say previously Brettonians are different?

I agree with Shadow and while I don't have a lot of experience with Brettonia, I wouldn't say that they're different in that regard. The big "ability" for them is the ability to organize your cavalry into a different formation. It doesn't really change how cavalry work or introduce any really new mechanics to the game. Otherwise, they're just a cavalry-heavy army supported by foot troops like archers and good warmachines (the trebuchet), and that's something that you can replicate with quite a few armies now.

I understand a lot of armies can do heavy cav, but brettonia surely have the dynamic that it's theme is whole cav armies, while reading the old book they had virtues and prayers to help support that style?

I know other armies can replicate a similar army but won't be 'as good', a bit like dark elves trying to outshoot wood elves.. If that makes sense?

Andy140491 wrote:
I know other armies can replicate a similar army but won't be 'as good', a bit like dark elves trying to outshoot wood elves.. If that makes sense?

Dark Elves do outshoot Wood Elves if they want to.

I think you are selling Dark Elves short a little bit. I do understand the point you are trying to make, however I honestly don't think it has a lot of merit.

If you look at the tournament or competitive style Brettonia builds they really aren't anymore "all-cav" than anyone else. Peasant bowmen, Trebuchets are staples of the army to name a few non cavalry units. Plenty of armies can run an all-cavalry list with varying amounts of viability, so I'm confused as to why you think this makes Brettonia so unique.

Granted they do have virtues which are a nice touch, but really even they are basically just Hero-Abilities in essence and there are several army books that grant their characters similar things albeit under a different name.

Andy140491 wrote:
I understand a lot of armies can do heavy cav, but brettonia surely have the dynamic that it's theme is whole cav armies, while reading the old book they had virtues and prayers to help support that style?

I know other armies can replicate a similar army but won't be 'as good', a bit like dark elves trying to outshoot wood elves.. If that makes sense?

Virtues and prayers function identical to pieces of equipment that you have the option to purchase for your models, unless I'm forgetting something. Or as Alex said, hero powers. Vampire Counts have the same thing, and all it does is customize your characters.

And you're right that other armies can be similar but won't be "as good" - in fact, they'll be better. They'll win more games than Brettonia.

The thing is, to me, a "dynamic" is something that affects the playstyle on the tabletop. But having a "theme" doesn't equate to different mechanics. Undead is a good example: you can bring your troops back with greater ease than other armies, and that affects your playstyle. It's difficult to make a non-undead army that functions similarly. The old Wood Elf book was heavy on abusing the flee mechanic as a response to getting charged, and playing it well required understanding that mechanic. It was difficult to make an army with another book in which that was such a viable mechanic. See what I mean? But when it comes down to it, cav is cav, and I don't think Brettonia plays that much differently than a lot of other armies.

Yeah I see what you're saying.. and I don't disagree that I'm selling dark elves short. But maybe that's me coming to a point where I feel that I don't like the play style rather then the actual army and I'm looking for a scapegoat to blame the reason I want a new one :/ and I really don't know why I'm drawn to Brettonians so much. I haven't been this interested in an army release in years... I'm not bothered about winning tournaments.. I just like an all cav army I think, and again I know other armies can do it, and maybe better. But I think 'concept' wise bretts would be the cav army, or in my head they are. And hopefully in the new book release we may see some help towards it

If you're drawn toward an army, then you're drawn towards an army... Don't fight it but maybe wait to see if you still like the when the new book is released?

Oh i will do. bit I spend 1k? Maybe more on an army before I realise I'm not keen on it and I then have a shelved army for months... and the cycle repeats.. so if I'm drawn to an army that's still not been re done is that a good sign? :/

Buy one boxoof nights get them completely done try and maximize the time till the book comes out to see if the army still appeals to you.

Bye if the models and play style appeal to you just do it. you'll be happier

I don't think there are many weaknesses w/ the Brettonian army, in fact they have a little something for everything. BUT, they are getting a new book soon, which if we judge things by the last couple of releases, they will lose a significant portion of their uniqueness and half their army will become neutered. WE lost half their army, the tree side of the army is just terrible now. They lost a lot of the flavor of the army as well when they lost the different lores (alter, wild rider, etc)

Andy140491 wrote:
Oh i will do. bit I spend 1k? Maybe more on an army before I realise I'm not keen on it and I then have a shelved army for months... and the cycle repeats.. so if I'm drawn to an army that's still not been re done is that a good sign? :/

Play with proxies. Just play some games with some paper cutouts or other models and pretend they're Brets. See if they play like you think they will. Either you'll find out that they are in fact what you've been looking for and you can then dive in, or your army ADD will kick in again and you'll have saved a bunch of money. I'm always an advocate of try before you buy, especially in your case!

Yeah I have a feeling brets will be trimmed down a hell of a lot but then surely they'll be a lot more balanced to the current meta? I believe what everyone has said. Put a lot more time into the army and proxie some shizz

If brets keep their prayers, virtues, and formations ill be happy

I doubt they will be trimmed down, if anything they will get some new additions to the army list and a couple of new sculpts as has been the trend for 8th Ed releases.

But it does sound like you are really excited and have a fondness for the Brettonian army anyway. As ImAGeek said, don't fight it, thats a great thing. Loving an army is by far the most important part of enjoying the hobby!

I really do hope that Bretonnians get something to make themselves more unique in the new book. They don't exactly have an equivalent to Empire's Demigryphs and the Empire war machines are arguably better than the trebuchet, and the High Elf knights get ASF which is a huge advantage.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/july-releases-nurgle.html?m=1

Awwww man if this is true I'm gonna be steaming mad! Why would they release more stuff for an army that already has an updated book! :(

I know of Bretonians as an army history but I don't know about their game play. And I can't imagine having to paint different heraldry on all those knights.
Personally I think Empire are better.
Empire do great all cavalry armies. Several kinds/levels of knights, knights of the white wolf (you just model them now, no different rues) Demigryph knights. Mounted heroes, even a mechanical steed.
You get archers or handgunners. You get detachments to add to units that can counter attack or stand and shoot with rifles.
Archers, crossbowmen.
But I won't fault you for possibly falling in love with the Brertonian army.
Play what you like and if you can find the one that you like best that's great

 Throt wrote:
I know of Bretonians as an army history but I don't know about their game play. And I can't imagine having to paint different heraldry on all those knights.
Personally I think Empire are better.
Empire do great all cavalry armies. Several kinds/levels of knights, knights of the white wolf (you just model them now, no different rues) Demigryph knights. Mounted heroes, even a mechanical steed.
You get archers or handgunners. You get detachments to add to units that can counter attack or stand and shoot with rifles.
Archers, crossbowmen.
But I won't fault you for possibly falling in love with the Brertonian army.
Play what you like and if you can find the one that you like best that's great

Empire knights? Better than Brets? Not likely.

Brets have a tiny frontage, which is good, as they get less attacks directed against them.

Brets have a good armour save AND a ward save. As opposed to the Empire just having a good armour save.

Furthermore, Brets have 5 wound war machines for 90 points. EACH.

 thedarkavenger wrote:


Empire knights? Better than Brets? Not likely.

Brets have a tiny frontage, which is good, as they get less attacks directed against them.

Brets have a good armour save AND a ward save. As opposed to the Empire just having a good armour save.

Furthermore, Brets have 5 wound war machines for 90 points. EACH.

Well again I can only make assumptions and guesses because I have never seen their book but..

Yes...better. Because I like them better. Purely an aesthetic preference. I prefer Empire's look over the questing knights and squires.

For Brets and tiny frontage I'm guessing you are referring to a lance formation. That is a nice benefit but I would guess it only helps on a charge and is rather situational. Cool none the less though. What are the knights point costs?

Mounted knights have the same armour save mostly. What is a bretonian ward? 6+?
85 points I can throw in a Warrior Priest on a horse for a potential 5+ ward and other potentials. But we could go back and forth about what we can add, stick to the basics I'd say.

Again, what are the points cost for a Bret knight? Stats? Standard human I'm guessing

Empire can also do DemiGryphs out of their specials. That's a mean bit of damage as well.

As for the warmachines .I'm assuming trebuchets. if they are rare you can have 2.
Yeah Empires cost more but get Cannons, mortars, volley guns, hellstorm rockets and then there is the steam tank..

Not trying to be argumentative. Just stating my preference. I would like to know the points on bret knights though...I guess since that's the 3rd time its a bit obvious

Don't forget that the brett book is what... 15 years old? (Random guess) and that empire only got the demigryphs this edition. Not only that but the reason they have so many artillery pieces is because people like to play the empire gun line. Regards to Brettonia I think they only use the trebuchets as a means of whittling down a unit before you break it and run it down with your knights... I don't think you can really do that with empire.

DEFINITELY you should play with proxies as Evertras said.