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Stormraven:
Jink:
"To Hit rolls have been made. If the unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule gain a 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but they can only fire Snap Shots until the end of their next turn"
PoTMS:
In a turn in which the vehicle neither moves Flat Out nor uses smoke launchers, the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full Ballistic Skill than normally permitted. In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting.

So if you jink you can still fire one weapon at full BS?


Furioso Dreadnought with Fragcannon
The template is assault 2, there was a discussion in 6th edition on this, but it's still ambiguous.

Wall of Death
"Template weapons can fire Overwatch, even though they cannot fire Snap Shots. Instead, if a Template weapon fires Overwatch, it automatically inflicts D3 hits on the charging unit"

Multiple Templates:
"If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template type, resolve each shot, one at a time, as described above, determining and recording how many hits are scored by each template. Once the number of hits from all templates has been determined, roll To Wound as normal."

So RAW the template is firing multiple times, is it then 2d3 hits?

PoTMS does indeed allow the flier to jink then shoot one weapon at full BS.

RAW, each template weapon causes D3 hits, not each template, so a 2-shot template weapon will still cause only 1D3 hits.

 some bloke wrote:
PoTMS does indeed allow the flier to jink then shoot one weapon at full BS.

RAW, each template weapon causes D3 hits, not each template, so a 2-shot template weapon will still cause only 1D3 hits.

Where is it RAW? Dont have the 6th book available, but previously the WoD was in the shooting phase chapter?

"if a Template weapon fires Overwatch, it automatically inflicts D3 hits on the charging unit"

Dosnt it fire 2 times? So it automatically inflicts d3 hits each time it fires? I wish GW would make this more clear.

Oddly enough, the rules for 'Wall of Death' are in the special rules section where they cover the rules for Template weapons.

English is not my first language, but can't you say you fired your weapons 2 times? Or do you perhaps fire it only once regardless of how many rounds went off?

The weapon fires once. Thus you inky get 1d3

Edit: Did not see the last reply, i guess that makes sense.

Looking through the rules again. I can't find anywhere that specifies that you only get D3 hits per template weapon. It simply says if a template weapons fires overwatch i gets d3 hits. And if you fire a weapon twice the same dosnt this mean you apply the first rule two times?

Mutliple templates state:
"If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template type, resolve each shot, one at a time, as described above, determining and recording how many hits are scored by each template. "

So the argument would be the weapon is only fired once even though it's assault 2? Which i suppose could be plausible.

Is the frag cannon a blast weapon?

The rules define a template weapon as a weapon with "template" for its range like flamers do.

Yep its a str 6 ap - rending assault 2 template. I guess this really comes down to if you are firing one or two times when its assault 2. If someone empties a full clip with an uzi holding in the trigger did, he only fire one time?

Remtek wrote:
Yep its a str 6 ap - rending assault 2 template. I guess this really comes down to if you are firing one or two times when its assault 2. If someone empties a full clip with an uzi holding in the trigger did, he only fire one time?

He fired 1 time with 30 shots.
Just like the Frag Cannon fires 1 time with 2 shots.

I think i agree, Dirty Harry can verify.

You're thinking "did he fire six shots or only five?" Now to tell you the truth I forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow you head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?

Template weapons do d3 automatic hits in Overwatch, that's it. I imagine it might get more if it weren't, as far as I know, completely unique in that it's a template weapon with two shots. The bit about multiple templates refers to multiple models using template weapons in the same unit.

However, I believe the Furioso can Overwatch with both its standard flamer (if it has one) and its Fragcannon at the same time.

It uses the flamer template or the small blast?

Flamer template

RAI and RAW are contradicting with regards to POTMS.

"The Ballistic Skill of a model firing a Snap Shot can only be modified by special rules that specifically state that they affect Snap Shots"
This would RAW mean that Foreboding and POTMS will not apply when performing snapshots since they do not specifically state that. RAI both the spell and potms would override snap shots?

We all can agree that POTMS can't shoot flyers at full bs due to the hard to hit rule.

Questions:
If the units BS is counted as 1, does full BS equal BS1? Making Foreboding and POTMS invalid? Or is the units BS only counted as 1 until you perform the shooting action?
Can you fire a single shot at BS4 with a Stormraven or Landraider when;
Jinking? (applies to Stormraven)
Moving combat speed (in addition to the one permitted 1+1)?
Moving cruising speed?
Stunned/shaken?[

My conclustion would stunned/shaken/jink/cruising speed are the same in regards to snap shot. Either all of them are allowed one BS4 shot, or none of them. This means POTMS is effectly only splitfire in 7th with the exception of combat speed giving 1+1 shots at BS4


Foreboding
Foreboding is a blessing that targets the Psyker. Whilst this power is in effect, the Psyker and his unit have the Counter-attack special rule and fire Overwatch using their full Ballistic Skill, rather than Ballistic Skill 1. Note that this does not allow weapons that could not normally fire Overwatch to do so.

Power of the Machine Spirit

The interface between this vehicle’s advanced machine spirit and its fire control mechanisms allows the crew to target foes with incredible accuracy.
In a turn in which the vehicle neither moves Flat Out nor uses smoke launchers, the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full Ballistic Skill than normally permitted. In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting.



Snap Shots

Under specific circumstances, models must fire Snap Shots – opportunistic bursts of fire ‘snapped’ off in the general direction of the target. The most common occurrences of Snap Shots are when models with Heavy weapons move and shoot in the same turn or when units make Overwatch shots. If a model is forced to make Snap Shots rather than shoot normally, then its Ballistic Skill is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots, unless it has a Ballistic Skill of 0 (in which case it may not shoot).

The Ballistic Skill of a model firing a Snap Shot can only be modified by special rules that specifically state that they affect Snap Shots, along with any other restrictions (some may only modify Ballistic Skill when firing Overwatch Snap Shots, for example). If a special rule doesn’t specifically state that it affects Snap Shots, then the Snap Shot is resolved at Ballistic Skill 1.


Jink
When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink. The decision must be made before any To Hit rolls have been made. If the unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule gain a 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but they can only fire Snap Shots until the end of their next turn.

Crew Shaken/Stunned.
The vehicle is rocked by the attack, but no serious damage is sustained. The vehicle can only fire Snap Shots until the end of its next turn.

Combat Speed
A vehicle that moved at Combat Speed may fire a single weapon using its Ballistic Skill. The vehicle can also fire Snap Shots with other weapons if it wishes, though, of course, it cannot fire any weapons that cannot be fired as Snap Shots.


Cruising Speed
A vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed can only make Snap Shots, as above

I would disagree POTMS lets you fire one at full BS.


----

How many weapons can you normally fire at full BS?
How many can you fire at full BS after jinking?

Normally permitted is bolded because that's pretty key, it doesn't give permission to fire one at full BS regardless of anything else. It lets you fire one more than you normally could.

If you can normally fire 5 at full BS, POTMS lets you fire 6. This is 5+1 equation rather than 0+1.

Jink says you can only fire snap shots. Why it is OK for the 6th to be fired as full BS but not the other 5? Does POTMS say you can fire at full BS even if you jinked? As far as I can see Jink imposes a restriction POTMS does not override.

I would say RAW and RAI no.

 Nem wrote:
I would disagree POTMS lets you fire one at full BS.


----

How many weapons can you normally fire at full BS?
How many can you fire at full BS after jinking?

Normally permitted is bolded because that's pretty key, it doesn't give permission to fire one at full BS regardless of anything else. It lets you fire one more than you normally could.

If you can normally fire 5 at full BS, POTMS lets you fire 6. This is 5+1 equation rather than 0+1.

Jink says you can only fire snap shots. Why it is OK for the 6th to be fired as full BS but not the other 5? Does POTMS say you can fire at full BS even if you jinked? As far as I can see Jink imposes a restriction POTMS does not override.

I would say RAW and RAI no.

What about foreboding? It's worded in the same way. "The Ballistic Skill of a model firing a Snap Shot can only be modified by special rules that specifically state that they affect Snap Shots" Foreboding dosnt mention snap shots.
POTMS spirit is an old rule. I belive in 5th it was intedended for stunned and moving combat cruising speed.

Remtek wrote:

 Nem wrote:
I would disagree POTMS lets you fire one at full BS.


----

How many weapons can you normally fire at full BS?
How many can you fire at full BS after jinking?

Normally permitted is bolded because that's pretty key, it doesn't give permission to fire one at full BS regardless of anything else. It lets you fire one more than you normally could.

If you can normally fire 5 at full BS, POTMS lets you fire 6. This is 5+1 equation rather than 0+1.

Jink says you can only fire snap shots. Why it is OK for the 6th to be fired as full BS but not the other 5? Does POTMS say you can fire at full BS even if you jinked? As far as I can see Jink imposes a restriction POTMS does not override.

I would say RAW and RAI no.

What about foreboding? It's worded in the same way. "The Ballistic Skill of a model firing a Snap Shot can only be modified by special rules that specifically state that they affect Snap Shots" Foreboding dosnt mention snap shots.
POTMS spirit is an old rule. I belive in 5th it was intedended for stunned and moving combat cruising speed.

It is not an old rule since it is in the 7th BRB.

Zimko wrote:

Remtek wrote:

 Nem wrote:
I would disagree POTMS lets you fire one at full BS.


----

How many weapons can you normally fire at full BS?
How many can you fire at full BS after jinking?

Normally permitted is bolded because that's pretty key, it doesn't give permission to fire one at full BS regardless of anything else. It lets you fire one more than you normally could.

If you can normally fire 5 at full BS, POTMS lets you fire 6. This is 5+1 equation rather than 0+1.

Jink says you can only fire snap shots. Why it is OK for the 6th to be fired as full BS but not the other 5? Does POTMS say you can fire at full BS even if you jinked? As far as I can see Jink imposes a restriction POTMS does not override.

I would say RAW and RAI no.

What about foreboding? It's worded in the same way. "The Ballistic Skill of a model firing a Snap Shot can only be modified by special rules that specifically state that they affect Snap Shots" Foreboding dosnt mention snap shots.
POTMS spirit is an old rule. I belive in 5th it was intedended for stunned and moving combat cruising speed.

It is not an old rule since it is in the 7th BRB.

When it was written it was clear what it intended. Now in the new rulebook its very ambigous what it does. Did they intend removing shooting 1 shot full bs when stunned? If they did, there is no mention in the rules of this. But RAW it can be interpeted as you can't anymore depending on when your unit's bs changes to 1 (when stunned or when firing in a stunned state).

Look at Foreboding and Snap Shot rules. RAW you cant shoot at BS 4 when overwatching because Foreboding dosnt make any mention of snap shots. That is if you count the unit as BS1 before performing the shooting attack. The same thing can be said about stunned/jink/cruising speed.

I know a really good way to word that would be

' Can always shoot 1 weapon at full BS regardless of any other restrictions '

Though I don't recall if it's changed at any point (Never used it), that's a mile away from shooting 1 more weapon than normal at full BS.

If it was intended to do that it should have always said that really, WTB writers that say what they mean.

I can see this going either way. Either PotMS got better in 6th-7th or it turned into split fire.

We always played it as you can shoot one weapon at full bs if stunned/cruising in 5th and 6th (land raider). Pretty sure most people/tournaments played it this way. Please leave feedback if you didt.

The same would apply if cruising in hover or jinking with a Stormraven in 7th.

But imo a case can be made on both sides due to the exact wording in snap shot rule, but this would nullify Foreboding aswell.

If i missed something please do reply. The more i keep reading the more confused i get.

I checked back through some recent threads, will check back further in a mo, but it seems like POTMS is a bit of a 'lets not go there' subject, people don't bother debating. There was divided opinion on if you could shoot the weapon at full BS when also firing Ordnance weapon on a few threads, which is a similar situation. Likewise my brain is recalling a TAU based thread with a similar system which allowed a additional shot and some debate.
Found it, Multitrackers and Ordnance (6th ed)
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/564615.page

Conclusion (or I would call it a conclusion) was didn't matter how many extra weapons you are told you are allowed to fire, nothing in the rule gave permission to override the Ordnance restriction.

Need to check the difference in wording though...

Normally, ordnance prevents me from firing any other weapon. However Riptides have multi-trackers, which let me fire one additional weapon than normal.

Different part rules but same situation, the result should be the same, for the same reasons?


[Edit after a few days of nothingness] Nobody cares, we are all just Xenophobes, or everyone just really hates Tau.