Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Example:
5 scouts deploy inside a land speeder storm. Since infiltrate is conferred to the transport now, the speeder decides to infiltrate. Then, since the speeder has scout, it chooses to redeploy 6" closer to the enemy, and lastly the marine player goes second. Now, if the speeder moves 6" then offloads the scouts, who can charge since the speeder is open topped, are they allowed to charge or are they not allowed since their transport made a scout move? The BRB is a touch vague saying a 'unit' that makes a scout move, so is that the speeder + the scouts or just the speeder?

Thanks in advance for all your help!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/601816.page

Still on the first page.

Quote from BRB - If a unit with the scout special rule is deployed inside a DEDICATED trasport, it confers the scout special rule to the transport. Though a disembarkation may not be preformed as the part of the scout redeployment."

"a unit CONTAINING at least one model with the scout special rule can choose to redeploy." -Since the scouts are embarked they would transfer the ability to the Vehicle. Increasing the scout move from the 6" infantry scout move to a 12" vehicle scout move.

"A unit that makes a scout move in this way, cannot charge in the first game turn."


Clear enough.

Yes, it is clear that the vehicle made the Scout redeployment as explained clearly in the other thread.

However if you infiltrate at all, you are not allowed to assault the first game turn.

Yep, however that still doesnt stop you simply Scouting the LSS and then assualting, as the embarked unit has NOT made a Scout redeployment - because the rules never say they do, unlike with Outflank, DS, Infiltrate etc.

Also see the Battlewagon formation in Waaagh Ghazghul where it needs a specific special rule to stop the occupants charging turn 1. If you can't charge turn 1 because your transport scouted then this rule does literally nothing.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Also see the Battlewagon formation in Waaagh Ghazghul where it needs a specific special rule to stop the occupants charging turn 1. If you can't charge turn 1 because your transport scouted then this rule does literally nothing.

Or as posted before, could be a reminder of how the rules work normally, like GW usually does...

If this post is only about scouting and charging, please go and follow:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/601816.page

If you are asking whether your scenario allows charging:
No, they have infiltrated and may not charge

Or as posted before, could be a reminder of how the rules work normally, like GW usually does... 

I guessing you have back up for that bold statement. Please give the name of any other special rule where the entire special rule's only function is a reminder. Just the name of the Special Rule and the publication it is found in is enough.

Scout, with a "full referral" to Outflanking.
You may find the exact same wording in the Outflanking rule.

Then if you don't agree, you can even look up "Infiltrate".

Many many rules are often repeated as reminders, this is not new

Yes there are lots of reminders however I have never come across a named special rule who's only function is a reminder. Have you got an example anywhere in the rules?

I was on the other side of the debate until Waaagh Ghazghul came out and that really has put to bed any serious debate.

Will you eat your hat when they FAQ it?

Since reading that thread i believe Charging from a scout re-deploy is RaW legal.

But i would still not simply dismiss that the Ork Ghazghul rule could be a reminder, the BrB states how GW really tries to make turn 1 charges "Highly unlikely". Allowing it for all Scout re-deployments is not "Highly unlikely". This will go no further than "until they FAQ *Scout* " though...

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yep, however that still doesnt stop you simply Scouting the LSS and then assaulting, as the embarked unit has NOT made a Scout redeployment - because the rules never say they do, unlike with Outflank, DS, Infiltrate etc.

It is utterly silly to think that if your unit gives the transport the scout special rule, that the unit is not also counted as scouting. Silly indeed. By which means does the transport move in the first place? In fact as for the scouting rule the unit is counted as a single entity and the RAW and RAI is pretty clear. If you are trying to make a case for a first turn assault after scouting its not going to happen I'm afraid. Lets not bring up all the other rules that prevent such things, such as reserve assault limitations and infiltrate limitations.

 CorpseCommander wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yep, however that still doesnt stop you simply Scouting the LSS and then assaulting, as the embarked unit has NOT made a Scout redeployment - because the rules never say they do, unlike with Outflank, DS, Infiltrate etc.

It is utterly silly to think that if your unit gives the transport the scout special rule, that the unit is not also counted as scouting. Silly indeed. By which means does the transport move in the first place? In fact as for the scouting rule the unit is counted as a single entity and the RAW and RAI is pretty clear. If you are trying to make a case for a first turn assault after scouting its not going to happen I'm afraid. Lets not bring up all the other rules that prevent such things, such as reserve assault limitations and infiltrate limitations.

Yes, you can't find a rules argument against it so just call it silly and deride people stating facts. That's proper debate ettiquite.
Scout is a redeploy, not move. The transport redeploys because it's benefiting from the Scout SR. A transport is never - ever. - the same unit as what it's transporting. If you disagree please actually cite a rule instead of just saying things. Let's not bring up that all those other rules you mention specifically prohibit assault. Does Scout?

Yes, you can't find a rules argument against it so just call it silly and deride people stating facts. That's proper debate ettiquite.
Scout is a redeploy, not move. The transport redeploys because it's benefiting from the Scout SR. A transport is never - ever. - the same unit as what it's transporting. If you disagree please actually cite a rule instead of just saying things. Let's not bring up that all those other rules you mention specifically prohibit assault. Does Scout?

Well im glad you really brought something valid and constructive to the table there budd. If your read the entire post you would see that i did indeed cite rules in quotes upon multiple occasions. If you are joining this post only to criticise a single post then you will be quickly ignored. My point is this... pay attention. If a unit confers the scout SR to a transport, BOTH the unit and the transport count as scouting. Simple enough for you? If a transport is used to scout deploy itself and a unit embarked upon it, they BOTH have made a scout move. This is a very clear and obvious connection to some people.. other not so much. I will share another rule related to this. Any time a transport vehicle makes a move, the passengers count as moving also. If the vehicle is open topped, and moved at combat speed the crew counts as having moved. If the vehicle moved at cruising speed the crew may only fire snapshots. Plain and simple. When you transport moves, the crew moves too. By which means does your transport redeploy past the deployment zone? By scouting... which means your crew alsssoooo... yay you get it. Baby steps.

Ah, no rules there either.

Page and para where it states the unit inside also counts as having made a scout redeploy. For movement it states such a rule, for DS as well there is a rule, but nothing for Scout.

So, rules quote. Or concede