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So the new box set has brought some light onto a problem I've been facing for awhile now....that is Orks vs Space Wolves......My initial reaction when seeing the sanctus set was to say "Holy hell those orks are boned", turns out some of the missions call for you to recycle orks (so I've been told, pick up my copy tomorrow), so that solves that, but it hints at a larger problem I have. My bestest Warhammer buddy plays Space Wolves and I play orks, we both got back into the hobby hot and heavy in 6th and have been building up our forces and fighting progressively bigger battles. Now, we also have a decent little group going in our area, with more game nights popping up all the time, so I get a chance to test my mettle against other armies and I don't find orks awful at all, but the bigger our battles get point wise, the harder and harder it becomes for me to dent his Space Wolves. (And he isn't even laying cheese on me yet, heaven help me if he figures out how allied priest and psykers work). That brings me to the question of the night....


What do you guys find effective (as an Ork player) against Space Wolves?

I can't out shoot him, weight of fire has some use, but besides Lootas behind an Aegis and big guns (both of which I use) the rest of my shooting is meh at best against 3+ saves. (fired 30 orks into a 10 man squad and caused 0 wounds the other day, I know it was a dice gods hate me moment, but it summed up how I feel lately)

Melee is a nightmare.....he complains my 30 man units are hard to shift off an objective (less so with mob rule now) but I don't know if he's ever bothered to charge me.....he is perfectly content to sit at 1 inch and rapid fire into me all day, knowing that the minute I charge, I eat a rapid fire overwatch and 2-3 melee attacks per marine BEFORE I ever swing, it's brutal. I don't own any MANZ (yet), though at best I can fit one unit in a trukk into my list, who knows though, might change the battle.

It also doesn't help he has scouts all over the board sniping away at my Nobs and Painboyz, since the start of 7th he realized real quick, pick the nob off, watch the boyz break. (Don't get me started on not being able to 'ard boy up just the nob anymore........^&$^%)


Anyway, just curious.....I know a lot of people see Tau as the dead counter to orks, but I really, really, really hate counter attacking space marines that all seem to have 41 close combat weapons stuffed in their pants. This isn't really about list either, I try different stuff as I get it painted and brought online....I run mostly a green tide, with a lot of big gun support (min. 5 lobbas), I have some fast attack and will be adding some flyers and battlewagons in the next couple weeks to try instead of my straight tide or trukk spam list (trukks can eat my ass now BTW. Whoever decided the old ramshackle was OP can stuff it), I was just more curious how other Ork players deal with Space Puppies.


Cheers!

Like with any Marine, Orks biggest problem is punching through their armor. But I often solve it by...punching through their armor. I've always been an assault driven player, despite it's nerfs in these past few editions. Thankfully, our new Waaagh can really get us where we need to be. That extra distance and still charging is great. My best chances against Marines of any kind is to get into their faces, and overwhelm with numbers, while also giving him other things to worry about.

Bikers are my go-to distraction unit. They are fast and mean, pump out twin linked shots, and I've found they can do a pretty good job of mowing down pesky footsoldiers. Deffkopters are good too, as they ID and pen their armor as well. They can Outflank if you start them in reserves, allowing you to get them where you want them. Even if they come off the wrong side, they are so quick, you can usually get them there soon, especially with Jink to keep them alive with their 2 wounds. TL Rokkits is amazing BTW.

But bottom line, is you need to stop their shooting ASAP. Same with any other enemy. Any way to get bodies up the field fast, Battle Wagons are a safer, albiet expensive option, or Trukk spam to get your guys where they have to be. Mega Nobz will soak up a lot of gunfire, with our much coveted 2+ armor. Having several Trukks or Wagons loaded with 3 or 4 of these guys can be a horrifying sight for your opponent. At the very least, these will draw fire for a few turns, let your Boyz get into combat while the potentially now rideless Manz huff and puff up the field

Also, the KFF is really good this edition. That 5++ is amazing. It WILL save a lot of your bodies on average, and with Painboyz able to be added anywhere, you get a 5+ FNP on top of the 5++ save from the KFF. It's probably going to end up being Ork's big new cheese, but it's too damn good. I often run the Green Tide list, and use a KFF Mek and Painboy in a combined arms detachment to make the blob one of the hardest things to mow down. Against everything I've fought so far (Mostly Marines of all sorts and Necron), this is near impossible for them to kill using regular fire power. Against Tau...if they use the Jump-Shoot-Jump suits, the Green Tide will fail. (As proved to me today)

You pretty much have to play around that. Shoot him and drown him in meganobz and bikerz. Boyz just don't work how they're supposed to in our new dex. They're simply worse than before. And they weren't overpowered to say the least. I consider them a troop tax now.

KFF...man, it's hard to say. DA get 4++ kff for 30 pts. It's not that bad on the whole but when you consider the cost...you pay 50 pts for 5++. That's another 8 boyz - exactly the same ammount you're gona save with it if you're in the open or the enemy has ignore cover...but if you're in cover this kff overlaps and doesn't contribute even a tiny bit. Thus, points wasted. Use it to protect your walker wall, i guess. Besides, it eats up an HQ slot. I'd rather have a painboy for cheaper. FNP is plain better and doesn't require models to be within 6'

 koooaei wrote:
You pretty much have to play around that. Shoot him and drown him in meganobz and bikerz. Boyz just don't work how they're supposed to in our new dex. They're simply worse than before. And they weren't overpowered to say the least. I consider them a troop tax now.

KFF...man, it's hard to say. DA get 4++ kff for 30 pts. It's not that bad on the whole but when you consider the cost...you pay 50 pts for 5++. That's another 8 boyz - exactly the same ammount you're gona save with it if you're in the open or the enemy has ignore cover...but if you're in cover this kff overlaps and doesn't contribute even a tiny bit. Thus, points wasted. Use it to protect your walker wall, i guess. Besides, it eats up an HQ slot. I'd rather have a painboy for cheaper. FNP is plain better and doesn't require models to be within 6'

Yeah, that's the issue I've faced thus far is a tight constraint on my HQ choices. The Big Mek/KFF is almost auto take even still, to keep as many things alive as possible, yet it competes with the needed Warbosses/Painboyz, and even with the Weirdboy now with his updated and useable power set. Though its going to be a point sink, once my Morkanaught is back in my hands (Currently at the painters), he will be the provider of KFF, so I can free up a HQ slot. And hopefully his weapon output will be enough to deal some damage in the process, as the Mek otherwise does NOTHING to contribute to the army. The Morks big issue though is it can be taken out, while the Mek can hide in blobs or behind Walkers. :(

A nice little trick i've used is taking some footslogging boyz (20 shootaboyz and 30 choppaboyz just cause i have those models) and taking dedicated trucks for them. Thus you have 30 pts 3 hp large moving blos with a rokkit which is objective secured to boot. It's like having an extra buggy that doesn't take a slot.

 koooaei wrote:
A nice little trick i've used is taking some footslogging boyz (20 shootaboyz and 30 choppaboyz just cause i have those models) and taking dedicated trucks for them. Thus you have 30 pts 3 hp large moving blos with a rokkit which is objective secured to boot. It's like having an extra buggy that doesn't take a slot.

I haven't put my Trukks to use yet this edition due to the mob rule fright. It hasn't killed any of my units that really matter, like my Bikes and all that, but when it comes to that small mob, you have to do two checks when the Trukk pops, which scares me :I I have some BW coming in the mail, hopefully this morning, and maybe if I run those with my 5 Trukks, I'll have better longevity. Sadly, I don't put Rokkits on the Trukks due to poor BS. One shot Rokkit seems less viable than 3 shots. I'd rather get extra shots. Then again, my Trukk hardly ever is shooting. I leave that to my Bikes and Deffkopters XD

Melevolence wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
A nice little trick i've used is taking some footslogging boyz (20 shootaboyz and 30 choppaboyz just cause i have those models) and taking dedicated trucks for them. Thus you have 30 pts 3 hp large moving blos with a rokkit which is objective secured to boot. It's like having an extra buggy that doesn't take a slot.

I haven't put my Trukks to use yet this edition due to the mob rule fright. It hasn't killed any of my units that really matter, like my Bikes and all that, but when it comes to that small mob, you have to do two checks when the Trukk pops, which scares me :I I have some BW coming in the mail, hopefully this morning, and maybe if I run those with my 5 Trukks, I'll have better longevity. Sadly, I don't put Rokkits on the Trukks due to poor BS. One shot Rokkit seems less viable than 3 shots. I'd rather get extra shots. Then again, my Trukk hardly ever is shooting. I leave that to my Bikes and Deffkopters XD

Actually, that's what i'm saying...don't put anyone in this trucks. You can now have dedicated trucks to squads of any numbers. Use them empty.

 koooaei wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
A nice little trick i've used is taking some footslogging boyz (20 shootaboyz and 30 choppaboyz just cause i have those models) and taking dedicated trucks for them. Thus you have 30 pts 3 hp large moving blos with a rokkit which is objective secured to boot. It's like having an extra buggy that doesn't take a slot.

I haven't put my Trukks to use yet this edition due to the mob rule fright. It hasn't killed any of my units that really matter, like my Bikes and all that, but when it comes to that small mob, you have to do two checks when the Trukk pops, which scares me :I I have some BW coming in the mail, hopefully this morning, and maybe if I run those with my 5 Trukks, I'll have better longevity. Sadly, I don't put Rokkits on the Trukks due to poor BS. One shot Rokkit seems less viable than 3 shots. I'd rather get extra shots. Then again, my Trukk hardly ever is shooting. I leave that to my Bikes and Deffkopters XD

Actually, that's what i'm saying...don't put anyone in this trucks. You can now have dedicated trucks to squads of any numbers. Use them empty.

Eh, maybe...seems kinda a waste really o.O Guess it wouldn't hurt to try it once or twice. The only thing is, you leave a squad of 12 boyz sitting around who won't do much, because, unless I'm mistaken, only a squad of 12 can take the Trukk. Seems like a waste of Boyz just to get the Trukks :s

...read carefully.

You can have a squad of ANY ammount of boyz doing something. For example 30 footslogging boyz. AND they can have a dedicated objective secured truck! That can ride around trolling the opponent's non-objective secured scoring, shooting it's bigshoota or rokkit and providing invaluable blos and tankshokking!
You can even go nuts and give it a wrekking ball!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Boyz in a truck don't really work. But when boyz are on their own and truck's on it's own - all's great!

Weird...never realized that. Hmm...might be something worth looking into. The wrecking ball might actually be useful in that case. If your opponent dismisses the Trukk. Hard to say if they will pop them just to be done with them or not. Will be icky to give them easy VP too though XD I'll tinker with the idea a bit though.

Orkses are free vp riding around anywayz If you're afraid to loose a truck, use it at the backfield. You'll need fast obj secured stuff anywayz.