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So I started re-collecting Orks just before the new codex came out.

At that time, most of the advice I read suggested taking lots of battlewagons with deff rollas and red paint jobs, with a token big shoota just to help prevent "immobilised" results on the vehicle damage table.

Now that deff rollas have been toned down, are battlewagons the beasts they once were, and is the battlewagon rush still a viable strategy?

I've heard there's a new formation in the Ghazkull supplement called a Blitz Brigade. That sounds pretty potent.

Battlewagons are still just as good, and whilst they're technically 20 points more expensive now baseline, deff-rollas and RPJ are now fairly lack-luster.

As a result you'll essentially be paying the same points if you just go one big shoota and a ram. If you want to smack on a boarding plank it gets pricier, but also much more effective.

The Blitz Brigade consists of 5 Battle Wagons and they come with the Scout special rule. This is huge. I have been running mine with basic Big Shoota and Ram. The ram no longer maxes out at AV14 when tank shocking so technically your Battle Wagon counts as AV16 front when making a Ram so you will be hitting as Strength 10 most of the time anyway's.

A strategy I have been considering though with my Blitz Brigade is to load them up with 4 Big Shootas instead of 1. After making my 12" Scout move the battle wagons will count as being stationary for turn 1 so I can move up pre first turn and park on the table centre line. Then the 100 Shoota Boyz inside the Wagons can unload there 200 Strength 4 shots the the Battle Wagons can unload there 60 Strength 5 shots. Think I will hit something? Turn 2 I can move forwards and assault with the 5 squads of Shoota Boyz and keep putting on the hurt.

This set up comes to 180 points for each of the Shoot Boy squads which include a Nob with PK and Boss pole and 135 points for each of the Battle Wagons. This comes to a total of 1575 points so there is still a lot of room left for you to include some HQ's and vehicle popping units. You could even swap out a few Shoot boy squads for some Tankbustas if need be. This will give you some ranged Strength 8 to open some Transports as well.

One Orks most feared match ups is Tau so lets take a look at some Math Hammer vs those little blue skinned freeks. Keeping in mind they don't really have anything reliable to kill AV14 at range.

100 Shoota boyz
200 shots hitting on 5+ = 66.6666 hits
66.6666 hits wounding on 3+ = 44.4444 wounds
44.4444 wounds saving on 4+ = 22.2222 dead Tau.

5 Battle Wagons with 4 Big Shootas each
60 shots hitting on 5+ = 20 hits
20 hits wounding on 2+ = 16.6666 wounds
16.6666 wounds saving on 4+ = 8.3333 dead Tau.

Total Dead Tau from 1 round of "Ork" Shooting
30.5555 dead Tau + The extra stuff in your list.

I have been running my Orks as shooty force for some time to some success. I don't focus on making them pure shooting they are still an assault army 1st and foremost but being able to hold there own in the Shooting phase as well can be of some pretty good use for the Orks. Turn 1 usually isn't the best turn for Orks either so some shooting element is handy just don't fall into the trap of trying to shoot instead of advance. You need to close with your foe ASAP and the new Ere we Go rule was something Orks really needed to help this along.

So after the 260+ dice you roll turn 1. Advance the Wagons 6" forward jump out the 100 Shoota boyz then shoot and Assault. With the 12" per game followed by the 6" move forwards then disembark 6" this should put you on your opponent's deployment line. Unless they have set up a long way back you should be in combat end of that turn. I'm finding with Ere we go I'm charging an average of 8-10" each turn.

Now if you also included a Warboss you could give up your 200 shoota shots to run up to an extra 6" but that's your call. Have some fun with. Swamp them like Swarm of Bee's protecting their nest and watch thing die like crazy. Expect to lose about 40 or Boyz by the end of turn 2 if that happens your doing it right. Good luck and Happy hunting

I was thinking about this, so great post Sinji! didnt Know that came to around 1500 pts.


would it be a good idea tp sacrifice one shoota squad for a meganob squad or should I just add that anyways after the fact? and what happens when you fight tanks?

 Sinji wrote:
The ram no longer maxes out at AV14 when tank shocking so technically your Battle Wagon counts as AV16 front when making a Ram so you will be hitting as Strength 10 most of the time anyway's.

It will never be Str. 10
It's Str. 9 with a Reinforced Ram, Str. 8 without.
Ramming rules have changed a bit.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Sinji wrote:
The ram no longer maxes out at AV14 when tank shocking so technically your Battle Wagon counts as AV16 front when making a Ram so you will be hitting as Strength 10 most of the time anyway's.

It will never be Str. 10
It's Str. 9 with a Reinforced Ram, Str. 8 without.
Ramming rules have changed a bit.

Cool hadn't sat down and done the number on the ram yet but Strength 9 isn't terrible. Can give the Battle Wagons something to do once the boys have been dropped off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
I was thinking about this, so great post Sinji! didnt Know that came to around 1500 pts.


would it be a good idea tp sacrifice one shoota squad for a meganob squad or should I just add that anyways after the fact? and what happens when you fight tanks?

I would run the MANZ in a trukk and keep them behind the Wagons. The only other options I would run inside the Wagons are the following.

Slugga Boyz:
More attacks but less shooting out put with a slightly shorter range. 100 slugga shots isn't terrible but its not as alpha worthy as 200 shoota shots. The other down side is you will most likely need to move forwards to get into range which means if you take the 4 Big Shootas on the Wagons 3 will be Snap Firing. Some benefits are that each squad is 20pts cheaper than a Shoot boy squad. So basically your swapping out some Alpha Strike potential for some better 1,2 punch potential.

Tankbustas:
These guys have longer range guns but are Strength 8 and get to re-roll armour Pens. They can also insta-kill a lot toughness 4 stuff and put a bit more hurt on MC's. A squad of 10 with Nob with PK and Boss pole come in at 170pts. So for 10pts less then a Shoota boy squad you get 10 less guys with some better guns and melta bombs. These guys can be useful they just fill a different role to the shoota boyz. And they can give you a bit of head start if your up against a mech list whuch basicly makes shoots useless.

Burna Boyz:
One thing I want to try with these guys is to stick them in 1 Wagon and Outflank them. Turn up and BBQ some back field camping unit. Down side is that they could turn turn up on the wrong table edge or turn up too late to get anything done. The second option is to use the the Battle Wagon like a sling shot and move your 12" Scout then make your 6" move then jump out 6" and flame on. They will be left in the open but they will also have a bit of Alpha Strike going. But doing this in a list that already has a ton of anti-infantry is a but of waist. The third option is to keep them on board the Wagon doing nothing for a turn and then use them for drive by BBQ's on turn 2. The last option is to include a few Meks with Killsaws in the unit and operate them like a multi tool. Either shoot infantry or assault vehicles or infantry.

Lootas:
Since the Wagons won't be taken as a HS choice you can load up on Loota's. The other advantage is that you will be moving before you actual turn so on turn 1 you will be stationary. The loota's can take a few Meks for some repair rolls as well. These guys are pretty good because you can get a ton of Strength 7 fire power going on turn 1. You can also take 10 of these guys for 40pts less than a squad of the shoota boys so you can free up some points. Although the new Mob rule being what it is they would operate better as a squad of 15. I would make 3 of them Meks. Having 12 Lootas also make the math hammer a bit easier to work out in you head. Will on average get 1 hit for every 3 lootas per amount of shots you roll to fire with. Eg. 12 lootas roll a 1 in there D3 shots so youshoulfd get around 4 hits. If they roll a 3 though you should get around 12 hits. They also add a bit of flyer killing ability to your list. Turn 2 onward you want to be moving anyways so snap firing at flyers shouldn't effect them to much. They suffer though like the burna boyz in needing an attached character for a Boss Pole.

A mega-armoured HQ attached though can get around the Boss pole issue and will give them S&P so they can shoot in the move. They won't be able to over watch though so keep that in mind when positioning.

Flash Gitz:
I have not tried these guys out yet. They can offer a ton of medium strength shots though and they do come with Boss Poles for free. Yay. Let me know if any one tries them out.

So in summary you want to make best use of the large transport capacity of the Battle Wagons so its best to take big units of something. Since the you won't be able to assault turn 1 it would be more cost effective to take something with good shooting ability in the Wagons. MANZ are great but I would run them in a Trukk behind the Wagons using the Wagons as mobile cover. MANZ rock.

In summary I would say that at least 2 squads of 20 shoota boyz would be an auto include in a Blitz Brigade because you need to field atleast 2 troops any way. I would personally try and run 3 at minimum to keep your body count up.

Another neat trick is if you want a KFF. Take a Big Mek on bike then attach him to a squad of Koptas and scout them up behind the wagons. This can be a bit of a point sink but it will give some 5++ goodness to a few wagons if your paranoid.

So I have recently seen a ielded against a BW list that was hilarious at 1250 points. At lower point games they begin to get quite nasty. And you do not have to load up with 20 boyz and a plank to make BWs viable.

Warboss, Cybork, Headwoppa's Killchoppa
3x lvl2 Weirdboy
6x 15 Grots, Runtherher, Grot Prod
3x Battlewagon, Zzap Gun, Ram
Burna Bomma
Mek Guns, 2 Zzap Guns, Ammo Runt
Aegis Defense Line, Comms Relay

The list is 1250 points of crazy. At these levels you can have a lot of fun with BWs. The weirdboyz rolled PotW on two and Daemonology on one. It is a very random list as you can see but it was quite effective. If you are wondering that is dual CAD - hence four HQs and four HS. At 1250. One hundred models flooding the table. BWs are essentially moving terrain and a decent way of getting your scoring into position. They provide cover and mobility. Crunching the numbes on the damage output of the BW is not a telling description of its uses.

 Sinji wrote:
The Blitz Brigade consists of 5 Battle Wagons and they come with the Scout special rule. This is huge. I have been running mine with basic Big Shoota and Ram. The ram no longer maxes out at AV14 when tank shocking so technically your Battle Wagon counts as AV16 front when making a Ram so you will be hitting as Strength 10 most of the time anyway's.

A strategy I have been considering though with my Blitz Brigade is to load them up with 4 Big Shootas instead of 1. After making my 12" Scout move the battle wagons will count as being stationary for turn 1 so I can move up pre first turn and park on the table centre line. Then the 100 Shoota Boyz inside the Wagons can unload there 200 Strength 4 shots the the Battle Wagons can unload there 60 Strength 5 shots. Think I will hit something? Turn 2 I can move forwards and assault with the 5 squads of Shoota Boyz and keep putting on the hurt.

This set up comes to 180 points for each of the Shoot Boy squads which include a Nob with PK and Boss pole and 135 points for each of the Battle Wagons. This comes to a total of 1575 points so there is still a lot of room left for you to include some HQ's and vehicle popping units. You could even swap out a few Shoot boy squads for some Tankbustas if need be. This will give you some ranged Strength 8 to open some Transports as well.

One Orks most feared match ups is Tau so lets take a look at some Math Hammer vs those little blue skinned freeks. Keeping in mind they don't really have anything reliable to kill AV14 at range.

The only issue I see with that tactic is your opponent potentially explodiong your wagons while you're still inside. Since the explosion almost kills off half the mob, it's no longer safer to stay inside than to disembark. I'd rather want to get out of them ASAP. And, let's face it, you rarely get to use that AV14 front armor. You're already across half the board, someone is going to be in your side ark. I'd rather drive the battlewagon right into my opponent's face and dare him to kill it. Explosions on the outside are S4 as well

I've yet to play a game with enough points for the brigade (not fan of all boyz armies), but my plan is scouting, and then going flat-out first turn, disembarking and calling a Waaagh! on turn two. Barring bad dice, I should be able to reach everything on the board that turn (average of 53" from the original position of the wagon).

BW rush was good before BW's got more accessable through stealing other units BW's and the new detachment.


with the ability to buy a trukk for 20 man boyz, and swap that with a nob or manz BW, as well as the formation BW's means its even easier to put 3+ units of boys in BW then ever.

great strat, I have used it to great effect, theBWs really help to get the trukk boys into combat unmolested as well.

Keep in mind that flamer weapons hit everyone inside an open-topped transport now. This can be very risky for a loaded up Battlewagon. A single flamer could knock out a lot of troops.

They deal d6 wounds. Having more guys in the transport does not increase the danger.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As far as loadouts: I like to run my BWs fairly heavy. I think Reinforced Ram is a must-buy if transport is part of its role (as opposed to loading up on dakka and sitting in the backfield, which I don't really endorse). Grot Riggers seem like a good buy because explosions are less likely and 4 hull points takes a while to burn through. I think the Boarding Plank might be too expensive to take standard, but if you're building the list around turn one or two assaults every inch helps. As for weaponry, I don't think loading up is a bad idea because snap shots don't punish Orks that badly. In 6th I ran a kannon and four rokkits (I said I like to run them heavy!), but I'm thinking I should scale that back for the new codex now that other mass rokkit options have gotten better.

 easysauce wrote:
BW rush was good before BW's got more accessable through stealing other units BW's and the new detachment.


with the ability to buy a trukk for 20 man boyz, and swap that with a nob or manz BW, as well as the formation BW's means its even easier to put 3+ units of boys in BW then ever.

great strat, I have used it to great effect, theBWs really help to get the trukk boys into combat unmolested as well.

Huh. I just realized that you can still move flat-out after embarking. Didn't think about that.

so sinji your thinking of running a list like this then?

Blitz Brigade Formation
5 Battlewagons with reinforced rams 575pts (115 each)

HQ
Warboss mega armor da lucky stick 125pts
Painboy 50pts

TROOPS
3x Shoota boys (20) Nob with PK and Boss pole 540pts (180pts each)

ELITES
Tank Busters (10) Nob with PK and Boss pole 170pts
MegaNobz (3) Boss Pole Trukk 155pts
MegaNobz (3) Boss Pole Trukk 155pts

HEAVY SUPPORT
Lootas (14) Mek 210pts

Total 1980pts

Pretty mobile army i reckon, could drop the 2nd Mega Nobz squad, to upgrade the Wagons if you liked

Battlewagons are actually a lot stronger now combined with 7th ed and ork repair shenanigans. They really didnt get more expensive in the end, but their loadout for the same cost changed. Grot riggers give them IWND now, which is technically less likely than the old rules to go off but the old grot riggers literally only removed immobilized results, now it repairs it instead. Since immobilized results are kinda rare, i'd rather have the repair work.
We also have HQ Meks now, which we can sneak one into 3 battlewagons if we use the ork formation for another repair including immobilize and other negative effects removal, albeit on a 5+.

I havent really been using the wagons lately but i was at first, and i gotta say my wagons are actually taking DAMAGE now rather than 1 shot 1 explode result like they were before. I had one with a grot riggers, tellyporta blasta big mek, and an HQ mek get blasted to 1hp and i got lucky enough to bring it back to full rofl my opponent was like WTF!!

The issue with the battlewagon formation is its expensive as gak. Yes its only ~600pts for 5 battlewagons depending on the loadouts but you have to factor in what youre putting in them. Face it, one will have MANz in it (probably 5 as more than that is overkill and waste of points) and the other 4 will have either boyz or tankbustas. 20 boyz with nob + pk is 160pts, 15 tankbustas + nob (character reasons, dont get a pk on him its a waste) is 205pts, and the 5 MANz are 215pts if you take 1 killsaw and bp.

Thats ~1400pts before any HQs or supporting units like buggies, koptas, fliers, or mek gunz. Thats expensive lol, and you are going to want a KFF mek on bike following behind them to give them a 5++. You could put him inside a battlewagon, but remember it only affects 1 vehicle if its embarked for some dumb reason now.

The great benefit of the formation is getting a guaranteed charge during turn two (even if you lose your battlewagon), combined with the ability to reach stuff hidden in the very back of the opponent's deployment area. That's easily worth the points for a fifth battlewagon.

Battlewagons are still very good nowadays, and arguably better. Although we can't run people over with Deff Rollas anymore (well, we can try), the loadout of boarding planks, grot riggers and 4 big shootas/rokkits is still very effective.

It's slightly more expensive, iirc, but much better at delivering your boyz into the fray, thanks to IWND and the +2 to charge range, which is fantastic.

And they certainly have other roles too. Wagons are tough, and often they're the last things sticking around in my army towards the end of the game. With vehicles now able to capture objectives, this is even more useful than before. With four big shootas/rokkits, they put out a decent amount of fire too. I'm planning on running a unit of 9 Nobz + Warboss + Painboy + Mek in a BW with Killcannon in a game tomorrow. A different way of using BWs to what I'd normally do, so I'll post back on how it goes.

Deffrolla loss is not as big deal as it seems at the first glance. It wasn't a great option since 6-th to be honest. With the ever increasing ammount of skimmers, new flyers and fmc and most importantly, pre-measurement.

Wagons are 20 pts more expensive, yep but that's more due to new vehicle damage table. They don't explode that often now and it's well worth 20 pts. And new boarding planks are useful. This 2' combined with 'ere we go to reroll low distance is doing wonders. You can now be like 95% sure you won't fail a 6' charge.

Though, note that battlewagon rush has shifted to more elitist approach.

If previously you could get:
100 pts wagon with a ram+bigshoota and 20 shootaboyz including a pk bp ha nob and 2 bigshootas for 175 pts - 275 pts total.

Now you want that boarding plank and your wagonboyz are better off with 'avy armor, you also want a mek in there so it comes out to be:
135 pts wagon with a ram+rokkit+plank, 19 'ard sluggaboyz including a pk bp nob, 1 rokkit and a barebonez mek to eat challenges for 245 pts - 380 pts total. If you wana go shootas - add another 19 (or 17 if you got special weapons - not sure bout it yet) pts. If you wana go sluggas without 'eavy armor - substract 76 pts and get a 304 pt wagon - almost like before, BUT i'd warn you against running non-'ard boyz in vehicles.

You get more stuff but you definitely pay for it. And now our codex has great bikers and actually working snikrot commando supplement, you're not limited to nob biker star and wagon rush no more. Combine a wagon or two with your bikes and whatever fast you got and they'll work. No need to spam if you ask me.