Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I was reading Lexicanum about chaos and daemons and the like. There arose a question. The articles seemed to elude to the fact that almost noone to include Space Marines had knowledge of chaos and the daemonic forces at work in the galaxy. Especially how GK tend to mind wipe SM and mass execute IG after an operation. Does anyone have some clarity to this? I thought SM's all knew about chaos and daemons and how they had to fight them and such.

I've always thought that was to keep Grey Knights secret.

Rumor had it that to keep the knowledge of Chaos a secret was a direct edict from the Emperor himself before he was entombed on the Golden Throne.

Primarily it was to prevent others from following the path of the Traitors because the Imperium would not survive another war on the scale of the Horus Heresy.

GK almost solely go after daemons, they don't go after CSM. They tend to mindwipe because there tends to be more corruption present there, and they want the GK kept fairly secretive. As much as they usually mindwipe, they also don't *always* mindwipe. I'm fairly sure that most SM know there are fallen SM(aka CSM).

I believe Cadians are also aware of Chaos since they are the first line of defense against incursions from the Eye of Terror.

FYI - the Lexicanum states that only the Inquisition and some Chapter Masters even know the Grey Knights exist - I believe Space Marines are mind wiped of Grey Knight knowledge instead of killed because they are too expensive/take too long to replace. Guardsmen on the other hand....

I love the older fluff that says knowledge of Chaos is enough in itself to corrupt and destroy a human. It actually implies that Chaos is something dangerous and difficult to udnerstand, instead of just some army with spiky bits. More recent stories that have average grunts talking about fighting Chaos has always bugged me.

To try and resolve the difference, I try to imagine that active line soldiers, whether Astartes or IG, know that there are renegades. They know those renegades use magic and have strange lethal creatures in their forces. But knowing that these bad guys come from a parrallel dimension built of realspace's emotions, that can erupt anywhere they can, that will possess and consume your soul? That they don't know.

Most SM's are aware of Traitor marines. What SM's don't know was that 10,000 years ago a Horus Heresy happened.

GK's only mindswipe SM's who have had a direct awareness to their presence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AWesker1976 wrote:
I believe Cadians are also aware of Chaos since they are the first line of defense against incursions from the Eye of Terror.

FYI - the Lexicanum states that only the Inquisition and some Chapter Masters even know the Grey Knights exist - I believe Space Marines are mind wiped of Grey Knight knowledge instead of killed because they are too expensive/take too long to replace. Guardsmen on the other hand....

All SM chapter masters are aware, yes.

Interesting observation on the Cadians. I believe it makes sense but however, they are still human and Chaos has a very strong influence on humans. Maybe they are told the truth of Chaos, just not the full truth.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Most SM's are aware of Traitor marines. What SM's don't know was that 10,000 years ago a Horus Heresy happened.

GK's only mindswipe SM's who have had a direct awareness to their presence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AWesker1976 wrote:
I believe Cadians are also aware of Chaos since they are the first line of defense against incursions from the Eye of Terror.

FYI - the Lexicanum states that only the Inquisition and some Chapter Masters even know the Grey Knights exist - I believe Space Marines are mind wiped of Grey Knight knowledge instead of killed because they are too expensive/take too long to replace. Guardsmen on the other hand....

All SM chapter masters are aware, yes.

Interesting observation on the Cadians. I believe it makes sense but however, they are still human and Chaos has a very strong influence on humans. Maybe they are told the truth of Chaos, just not the full truth.

I believe Chaos has more of a direct influence on psykers because unprotected psykers can be forcibly possessed, but normal humans have to make a conscious choice to follow Chaos. With the unforgiving nature of the Imperium coupled with the "you won't be missed" attitude of the bureaucratic rulers and the "ends justify the means" methods of the Inquisition, it's no wonder why so many fall prey to the lies of Chaos.

That said, I'm sure there is a lot of propoganda concealing the true nature of the Eye of Terror and those that dwell within from the Cadians to try to prevent the Cadians from thinking too much about it.

 AWesker1976 wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Most SM's are aware of Traitor marines. What SM's don't know was that 10,000 years ago a Horus Heresy happened.

GK's only mindswipe SM's who have had a direct awareness to their presence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AWesker1976 wrote:
I believe Cadians are also aware of Chaos since they are the first line of defense against incursions from the Eye of Terror.

FYI - the Lexicanum states that only the Inquisition and some Chapter Masters even know the Grey Knights exist - I believe Space Marines are mind wiped of Grey Knight knowledge instead of killed because they are too expensive/take too long to replace. Guardsmen on the other hand....

All SM chapter masters are aware, yes.

Interesting observation on the Cadians. I believe it makes sense but however, they are still human and Chaos has a very strong influence on humans. Maybe they are told the truth of Chaos, just not the full truth.

I believe Chaos has more of a direct influence on psykers because unprotected psykers can be forcibly possessed, but normal humans have to make a conscious choice to follow Chaos. With the unforgiving nature of the Imperium coupled with the "you won't be missed" attitude of the bureaucratic rulers and the "ends justify the means" methods of the Inquisition, it's no wonder why so many fall prey to the lies of Chaos.

That said, I'm sure there is a lot of propoganda concealing the true nature of the Eye of Terror and those that dwell within from the Cadians to try to prevent the Cadians from thinking too much about it.

Precisely, that's what I was trying to say but I didn't know how to say it intelligently. No doubt commissars play a huge role in such propaganda. I wouldn't be surprised if cadians possessed twice as much commissars than any other IG faction to keep the ranks tamed.

If memory serves me, Cadia also happens to have a big problem with Chaos cults that they frequently have to erase.

According to Dan Abnett, "Cadia breeds Chaos cults like a pond breeds scum". That is in the Eisenhorn trilogy. However, things don't always work the same in the Daniverse as they do in other 40K publications, so take it as you will.

 Psienesis wrote:
According to Dan Abnett, "Cadia breeds Chaos cults like a pond breeds scum". That is in the Eisenhorn trilogy. However, things don't always work the same in the Daniverse as they do in other 40K publications, so take it as you will.

Ah, had an odd feeling that it was Eisenhorn but wasn't confident enough to say so. Still makes more sense than how Cadians are basically capable of fighting in everything and shipped everywhere and guard the gates I suppose.

If you read Gaunts Ghosts series, its pretty obvious that millions of guardsmen (just on that crusade), are pretty aware of chaos... unless they think they are fighting invisible fairies...

Regular citizens might not know the specifics but surely they must be told about heretics, debased cults and immoral men delving into forbidden knowledge? How else can they report it to the local authorities or the Inquisition?

And the Enforcer trilogy made some specific mention about space travel, where every crewmember and passenger is required to take up arms if the Geller field is breached. They might not know exactly what's out there but they know it wants to come in and eat them. The field barely keeps nightmares out anyway if the journey is rough.