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I've been prowling all the forum sites of late and found (much to my absolute, bloody horror) that there are very few blogs about orks and where they stand now...

So what massive changes in their codex have you guys found in the 7th edition codex and what are your opinions on them? One particular change I have taken a dislike to is that it seems like you may no longer give nob leaders of boyz mobs a 4+ without paying an extra 4 points for every other greenskin in the unit (unless perhaps I've gotten this wrong)

State a change you have noticed in the codex, your opinion on it and any loopholes or ways it can be used and we can discuss them individually and we'll start with the aforementioned removal or individual 4+ on boss nobs. (to prevent misunderstanding, if you' like the change, use if you dislike the rule, use )

~~~edit, typo and grammar fixes~~~

Regular boyz are worse than before essentially becoming a troop tax for me. If footslogging they are still better off as shootaboyz that are 15% more expensive now. Though, i find that it's somewhat ballanced out by 5 pt rokkits and a dedicated objective secured 30 pts rokkit truck.

So boyz just footslog while truck's doing stuff like grabbing objectives, screeting bikers, tankshokking, forcing the oppoent to waste fire on a cheapo 30 pts vehicle which is somewhat harder to kill than in 6-th. That's actually quite handy and works fine...in such an unexpected way.

I'll be honest, I keep forgetting about objective secured transports, it would have one me a couple games of late but yes, i actually really am liking a 30 point objective sitter, to go along with that notion, may I suggest an extra 35 points in grot tarpitss just to keep those pesky last minute objective contesters off my lawn?

Wow... I never tought about that Idea!

Bring 4 x 30 boyz mobs, buy them each a trukk and form a cover save wall with them in between the boyz and the opponent! Could be fun in a footslogging list. I might as well add 3 deff dread walking behind that wall.

Thanks!

To answer the thread's question. The obvious change is Mob rule as it make small units turn around and flee at the first opportunity.
The second obvious one to me is the ramshackle rule for truks which turns trukk into death traps as I experienced in my last game.

Mob rule is more of a hurt to larger units of boyz than smaller. i dont know why people keep saying small units get boned by mob rule - they didnt even GET the old benefits of mob rule, now they get some of it.

Larger boyz before were straight fearless. Now theyre psuedo-fearless since its basically 5th ed fearless (slightly tweaked of course). Theyre vulnerable to fear, which is garbage, but other than that odds are theyre just going to take a couple wounds if you fail a morale or pinning check.

Units of 12 or less were basically always LD7 before. Once they needed a test at all they were LD8 at best considering you almost never kill 1 ork unless you only shot 1 bullet. They failed that, bam they run. Now, theyre always LD7 (oooo 1 LD nerf at best, same on average) and have a 1/3 chance to ignore the result as long as their character is alive. Thats better than LD8 any day. Increases to a 50-50 if theyre in combat.

I don't think the mob rule has hurt large mobs at all. I've only lost 6 boyz in 7 games small price to pay to not run and not get pinned.

Also not being fearless has it benefits. I run large mobs of shoota boyz. Vs and eldar player I got one of my 30 strong mobs into cover in a good position in a ruin. 30 strong boys that can go to ground getting a decent cover and fnp is a pretty strong rock to get rid of if you don't have a decent assault for dislodge it.

Mob rule also kept my nob and pain boy alive in an assault a few times when the mob gets below 10 models. Before I would have just ran, now I stick around.

One thing I did like tremensously in one game I tested was that I fielded 3 Deff dreads and they were very fun. They were followed by a 30 boyz unit that had a Big mek + KFF just in range of the 3 deff dread. Each dread had grot riggas.
I like Dreadnaught and I especially like this model.

I also like using 20 boyz units of hard boyz with a pain boy.

Bikers at 15 men with a pain boy are pretty resilient.

I also tried mega nobs but had a unit of 5 with a Megawarboss in a trukk they obliterated what they attacked.... way way overkill.

I haven't gotten around to testing meganobz yet, i don't know, i suppose i just dont like the sound of a 40 point ork (excluding da boss of course) as for mob rule, its actually saved me on more than a few occasions, in stead of running, it just keeps them in combat for an extra turn or two for tarpit, letting me get the rest of my boyz ready to finish them off.

MANz are an even better "missile" than before. 170pts gives you 3 MANz, one with Killsaws and a BP, all in a trukk with ram. Super cheap for a super killy unit that as long as you have alternate targets to shoot at (i use bikes) they usually hit something worth more than them and kill it good.
Killsaw pretty much guarantees any vehicle is dead. 8 S9 AP2 PK attacks usually kills most vehicles, but has a tendancy let the bigger vehicles get away with a few HP (mainly landraiders or walkers that didnt kill us before we swing). The 5 S9 Ap2 Armorbane attacks guarantees that last bit of damage, as S9 with 2D6 pen is going to wreck something.

I'm ashamed to admit i had no idea what MANz stood for until just now... well something i need clearing up, can you give boss nobs a 4+ without the rest of the unit? it only says

"The entire mob may take ’eavy armour…4 pts/model"

if it's true that they can't then i think this is a big change that's really gone under the radar, no one really seems to have read about this but it certainly is bad news for the boss nobs, their survivabilitiy cut into a third of what it was unless you're willing to pay 40% more for the unit...

Most people didnt even buy the armor for the nob, as just about everything that he faces pens it anyway unless its just common troop garbage the boyz alone can deal with. But yes thats true the nob doesnt have access to heavy armor on his own.

Upside is though, we have unlimited numbers of 'ard boy upgrades now. No more are we forced to take a BIG squad of ard boys to make that cost actually worth it, now we can take many small ones (trukk boyz with armor seems to be going around, though i still avoid straight trukk boy lists)

fair point, another i wanted to bring up, what are your opinions on the new mek gunz? I for one will find it pretty easy to squeeze some anti flyer in as I'm actually known around my FLGS as the guy with not a single bit of anti-flyer, time to drop the stigma perhaps?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I should mention, i took the 4+ on the nob mainly because of protection from shoting and overwatch, as after all the average troop firearm is S4 AP5 or worse.

i always had one nob with heavy armor for the sheer fact i modeled him to have a damn shield he ripped off the side of a trukk lol made 0 sense to field him without armor. But i cant even remember the last time he ever took that 4+ save, since he either didnt get hurt due to boyz in the way or got owned in a challenge by rando-powersword-sergeant or worse. He won challenges more because he only took 1 wound than i passed a save.

I find the new mek gunz to be hilariously effective for the cost. Theyre not that hard to remove if your opponent really wants to, the issue is theyre so cheap theyre almost a waste of shots to kill. Full squads of new mek gunz i feel removes the cheap-cost benefits and makes them a more viable target, but a couple Kustom Mega Kannons in a squad of Kannons isnt a bad idea at all. Or a couple Traktors with 3 Kannons so when they skyfire, the "junk" artillery can at least snapfire (everything else fires a blast). Likewise, if no air or skimmers, least you got 3 kannons firing normally.

Bubblechukkas have got to be the most worthless of the bunch unless you mass the holy gak out of it. It may not be that viable, but theres a certain allure of shooting 15 pi plates at your opponent per turn...plus 1-2 SAGs lol

I'm considering running a list basically fusing speed freeks and green tide, ive worked out in 1250 points i can run 60 sluggas, 30 shootas, 15 warbikes and 2 MAN missiles, seems pretty balanced as one of the speedy units are gonna hit something and hit it hard, and thats not even including the wall of bodies coming in behind.

 blood guard26 wrote:
fair point, another i wanted to bring up, what are your opinions on the new mek gunz? I for one will find it pretty easy to squeeze some anti flyer in as I'm actually known around my FLGS as the guy with not a single bit of anti-flyer, time to drop the stigma perhaps?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I should mention, i took the 4+ on the nob mainly because of protection from shoting and overwatch, as after all the average troop firearm is S4 AP5 or worse.

Compare the cost of the kannon with C:SM:
Base
Kannon 18pts 4w t7 bs3 ld5
Dev marine with ml 29pts 1w t4 bs4 ld8

Extra wounds
Kannon 3pts t7
Marine 14pts t4

Extra shot
Kannon ammo runt 3pt (when having missed)
Hunter killer missile 10pts

Though, bringing kannons is not what orkses need. There are allready tons of cheapo rokkits everywhere. Besides, kannonz are 36' range which ain't great and usually not enough for a full game shooting. If i were u, i'd look at lobbas. They've been amazing since 6-th and have become even better with the new dex. Ork gunz are so cheap that noone's gona shoot at them anywayz. And if they will - good for you.

If you have problems with flyers and fmc and your meta is full of them, though note that statistically you'll need at least 3 of them to do stuff to av12 flyers and al 5 to reliably hurt av13. Quite expensive but if u're 100% sure there are gona be nightscithes - go for it.

I'm going to assume you're referring to traktors in the second paregraph?

Ork Slugga Boys got drastically better, and Shoota Boys got slightly more expensive but a minor buff. Slugga Boys have free stikkbombs now, but our major buff is getting to run and assault when a WAAAGH! is called and getting to re-roll one of our D6 for charge range. This is huge for Ork threat ranges, and gives choppy boys a great chance at getting into combat whereas before we would fail to get into combat since we only got fleet once and running screwed us over.

Biker Nobz didn't get any worse, but they take a hefty HQ tax to get them to power now (A Warboss AND a Painboy), can't be troops (Big whoop since troops gives them Hammer of Wrath on a 10" charge in the Ork FOC, which is pointless for bikes), and lost their access to an invuln. The reason they're going to be rare, though, has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the fact that vanilla Warbikers are 7 points cheaper and can now run a Painboy, giving them one of Biker Nobz biggest advantages (FNP) and making them dirt cheap. Not to mention, 51 S5 AP5 Twin-Linked shots from a unit of bikers with a painboy is awesome.

Personally, I avoided nob bikers anyway, too many points to spend on singular models.

I would quote new ramshackle and str 4 explosions as reason for small truck units being worse off not so much as mob rule.

Mob rule is just the extra kick when the transport blows up and kills half. Then you have to take morale and pining. . Failing one or the other... Statistically..

They did try to tone the boys down in this release.

I wouldn't put boyz in a transport unless it's a bw with mek and the boyz are ard and there is a kff and likely a PB.. I wouldn't run them on the ground unless 30 without a waaagh and a PB.

A kff is all but useless for battlewagon boyz. I've been heaving quite a bit of success with 19 boyz in battlewagons joined by a pain boyz and maybe a mek if points allow it.
A MA warboss with stikk also makes a unit of boyz very hard to kill unless a the opponent has some plasma around - most anti-tank weaponry has too few shots to cause serious damage to a mob of boyz.

i think KFFs in a wagon list are now outside the vehicle on a bike otherwise its way too expensive to only give it to a single unit.

Added risk because hes on his own, or with a minimal biker bodyguard force, but he can easily hide behind a couple wagons and be out of sight (until they pop)

I've been managing fine without KFF. I'm adding pain boyz to as many mobs as possible which kind of mitigates the explosions, if they happen at all. Tank bustaz with a doc attached have also turned out to be a major pain in the rear for many monstrous creatures (all those without S8+) since they have trouble killing all those orks attaching meltabombs to them with their limited amount of attacks.

Not needing to keep the battlewagons together also makes it easier to get cover saves for them, so I've got a save to roll most of the times anyways.

Some of my notes on the Orks as we stand right now

Cons:

-Nerf to Cybork Body: Losing our CC invul hurts, a LOT. It became a redundant upgrade, though still SOMEWHAT useable if you can't find HQ slots for Painboyz, so at least your Warboss keeps some kind of survivability.

-Battle Wagons: Up in cost, plus their Deff Rolla has become useless. While the Deffrolla isn't a HUGE loss, it loses a lot of the fun of using BWs in the first place D:

-Shoota Cost: While not a HUGE beef with me, Boyz now have to pay for their Shootas. It can be a big point sink for us if we want to be filled with Dakka...but, again not HUGE, as we still have some seriously cheap points overall.

-Mob Rule: This is a touchy subject for a lot of Ork players. Some claim it's the death of us. Others don't mind it. Personally, It has NOT affected my games that much. It DOES aid our smaller squads that needed it, like MANZ, Flash Gitz, and even our Lootas. On average, I hardly wound my dudes, and if so, I lose only 1 or 2. I think the most I've lost is 4 in one go off a 30 Boy blob.

-Lootas: Changed from Elites to Heavy, which has become a highly congested slot in our army, alongside HQs. I know my Lootas are hardly getting fielded due to needing room for BWs, artillery, and walkers.

That sums up what I feel were losses for ME anyway...

Pros:

-KFF: Now a 5++ instead of a 5+ Cover. While it got nerfed to only work on MODELS it touches or only the vehicle its embarked on, the upgrade was well worth it. With as many Ignore Cover granting abilities out there, its not often we are denied an invul.

-Painboyz: Now HQ choices! While this makes our HQ slot more congested, having 5+ FNP on basically ANY unit you want is amazing! It makes Boy Blobs incredibly difficult to kill in tandem with the KFF, allowing more durable foot slogger armies. I welcome this change!

-Artillery: Our artillery got CHEAPER. Basic Kannons/Lobbas are a mere 18 points per gun, and can be taken up to 5 in a squad! Then, if you want to pay a little more, you get MUCH more. Anti Air? Probably the best in the entire game right now. Trakktors are nuts! Kustom Mega Kannon? Ap2 pie plates? Why the hell not! Bubble Chucka? Not the go-to option, but can help rip through armor with it's potential high AP, large blast. Fun times!

-Shokk-Attakk Gun: Got better! Whaaaat!? No more chances to wipe out the entire unit he is sitting with, and can even VORTEX now! WHOOO!!!

-Flash Gitz; While still not THE BEST unit, they are much better this time around, with decent weapons and semi realiable AP, which is nice. But...sit in the congested Heavy Support slot.

-Relics: These are AWESOME! I won't get into too much depth or I'll gush all day, but we have some fun toys!

-Warlord Traits: We got good 'uns! Some, like with every codex, aren't the best, but most are desireable, and Orky!

-Weirdboyz: My BIGGEST love of this codex. They no longer are a liability! The Ork Psychic powers are AWESOME! I am always finding it hard to exclude one from my army, they are THAT fun!

-Rokkits: Are basically FREE on all vehicles. Deff Kopters, Buggies, Kanz, Dreads.

-So many more I don't have time to list!

Overall, I feel Orks are AWESOME right now. Not top tier by any means, but an even more fun army to play than ever before. We lost some, but gained MORE. Some will want to go back to our old Dex, but me? I'm staying riiiight here!

TLDR above post: Translation - Orks are playable and fun now, which is all that matters lol
I actually havent even touched my tau since the new ork dex came out. Im having too much fun krumpin' fings wit me power klaw!

Agreed. I got tabled in the only game I've played with them so far, but getting my weirdboy Snotgob to execute Da Jump followed by a Killbolt on a perfectly lined up unit of Bullgryn felt just too good! It almost felt unfair.

i seriously dont care about winning, i care about having a fun game. previous dex orks pissed me off in 6th because if i ran bikernobz i was a competitive list since they were so strong, if i didnt then i rarely lasted more than 3 turns because the very core of the damn game counters ork playstyle.
I have been tabled once in about 13 games with new orks, and that i would contribute to one of those 'Dice Gods Hate Me" games since i literally failed every single thing that meant anything lol. The rest were either close games, or i obliterated my opponent (which isnt fun for me either actually).

Weirdboys can pull off some pretty funny crap. my 3rd game using him i got Da Krunch and Killbolt. I got so freakin lucky with the dice rolls...i punched a landraider to death with Da Krunch alone and zapped a termie squad with killbolt lol. Insanely unlikely to do that but GOD it was awesome rofl

I too had some fun. Krumpin baneblades, smashing through nids and ripping apart marines are my highlights so far. I really cant wait till I get over 1,000 points!

Just yesterday I was in a 3000 point game of AM/orks Vs 2 knights, raven guard and deathwing... I had about 10 models out of 100 points of fotslog boyz that actually did stuff and boy did that doo stuff good, first knight charged my line, power klaw happened and it fell on top of his drop pod and stern guard squad, wiping them to the last man, the second was a little over the top but warboss & boyz, called Waaagh!, moved 6", ran 6" and charged 10" and were destroyed as the second knight went nuclear... all I have gotten from this is NEVER LEAVE POWER KLAWS OUT OF A LIST.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i seriously dont care about winning, i care about having a fun game. previous dex orks pissed me off in 6th because if i ran bikernobz i was a competitive list since they were so strong, if i didnt then i rarely lasted more than 3 turns because the very core of the damn game counters ork playstyle.
I have been tabled once in about 13 games with new orks, and that i would contribute to one of those 'Dice Gods Hate Me" games since i literally failed every single thing that meant anything lol. The rest were either close games, or i obliterated my opponent (which isnt fun for me either actually).

Weirdboys can pull off some pretty funny crap. my 3rd game using him i got Da Krunch and Killbolt. I got so freakin lucky with the dice rolls...i punched a landraider to death with Da Krunch alone and zapped a termie squad with killbolt lol. Insanely unlikely to do that but GOD it was awesome rofl

I like you.

I'm the same way. I don't go to a game expecting to win, but if I do, I'll do a little dance. I bring whatever list seems the most fun for me at the moment, and see how it goes. I don't often get tabled, except last game I pretty much only had some Grots left and maybe 20 left in my Green Tide, therefore effectivly losing since all my Kan support and Bike support was gone :(