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Am I missing something?

Which modifiers do you apply first when rolling on the perils table?

Thanks!

There is no first. You apply both of them at the same time since they are both the same type of modifier

Even if there was an order, what makes you think you keep applying the 10 cap after each modifier before you finished all the modifiers?

Well if a unit is LD7 and you add 3 for MoT then subtract 3 from Shadows, nothing happens either way around where as if you where to do this to a LD 8/9 unit you get somthing different.

LD 8/9
Shadows first = LD 8/9
MoT first = LD 7

LD 10

shadows first = LD 10
MoT first = LD 7

Like i said, where do you get the idea that you apply the ld10 cap before you're done applying all modifiers?

Again they apply at the same time so

LD 9 + 3 - 3 = 9

The multiple modifiers rule does not specify any precedence so I believe you just do the math and get the result.

No stat other than attacks and wounds may exceed 10 though.

“Modifiers
Certain pieces of wargear or special rules can modify a model’s characteristics positively or negatively by adding to it (+1, +2, etc.), subtracting from it (–1, –2, etc.), multiplying it (×2, ×3, etc.) or even setting its value (1, 8, etc.). Attacks and Wounds are the only characteristics that can be raised above 10. A model’s Initiative cannot be modified below 1, and no other characteristic can be modified below 0.”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Warhammer 40,000.” iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Yes, the point was that you have no permission to apply the cap until after you resolve the modifiers

It isnt 9+3 [check for cap]-3, it is 9 +(3-3) [check for cap]

As per my quote above, no stat may be modified above 10. Where does it say that you can go above 10 regardless of the stage of modifying?

You haven't gone above 10 as you have not finished the entirety of the operations. So it has not been modified above 10, as it occurs at the same time.
Here is an analogy: I get paid at the end of each month, the government takes my student loan repayment from my pay packet. My bank balance never sees the deduction (or the actual amount of my pay going in) because it was all resolved before my bank account was modified. Just like nosferatu demonstrated with 9 + (3-3).

I'm sorry but that's a pretty stupid comparison, this is 40k... Not banking.

The only rule that I can find that would apply to this question is the one above.

It does not mention anywhere you can go above and beyond the max of 10.

Unless I am mistaken of course, please quote the rule.

Or using algebra x = 9 + 3 - 3
At no point does x equal above 10.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That is maths.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have been taught as a maths teacher to apply real world scenarios to help my pupils understand. If you don't like it that is fine. But it still applies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is another example of what you are doing pure maths based.

X = 9 + 3 -3
X = 12 = 12-3 = 9

Line 2 is false as an equals sign means both sides must be equal. 12 is not equal to 9. This is a common thing I have to explain.
Here is how it should be set out:
X = 9 + 3 - 3
X = 12 -3
X = 9
At no point has x = 12

I completely understand your reasons and am not questioning your math ability.

I am questioning the rule and the rule alone.

Where does it say a LD stat may exceed 10?

It doesn't. I've just demonstrated it never goes above 10 as the modifiers happen at the same time. That's maths.

It never exceeded 10

It from 8 to 8

 Wilson wrote:
I completely understand your reasons and am not questioning your math ability.

I am questioning the rule and the rule alone.

Where does it say a LD stat may exceed 10?

Yes, and as repeatedly proven, at no point did the stat go above ten. It never did, as the equation is instanteously resolving to the end result. You dont stop along the way.

Alright, so the consensus is that all modifiers are applied at the exact same time?

Yep otherwise the rules would have to state which applies first.

Alrighty then!

Thanks guys.

 Wilson wrote:
Alright, so the consensus is that all modifiers are applied at the exact same time?

Yes, because that is how maths works.

There is no pause between them, hence why I said the actual resolution would be 9 (+3-3). All calculations are simultaneous, even if we tend not to do that when working it out ourselves.

The structure for applying multiple modifiers:

For example, if a model with Strength 4 has both ‘+1 Strength’ and ‘double Strength’, its
final Strength is 9 (4×2=8, 8+1=9).

You just don't modify the characteristic, until all modifiers have been calculated. The cap comes in when you reach the end value (At the point of trying to modify the characteristic rather than the calculation)

10. A model’s Initiative cannot be modified below
1, and no other characteristic can be modified below 0.

The characteristic is not being modified until you complete the calculation, so no need to apply the cap during calculation

Just wanted to post this because algebra doesn't really come into it.

Thanks again for explaining what has already been explained...

What are you applying Mark of Tzeentch to?

I was pretty sure that Rule never gets to be used anymore.

 Bloodhorror wrote:
What are you applying Mark of Tzeentch to?

I was pretty sure that Rule never gets to be used anymore.

Why wouldn't it? Please elaborate.

+3 Leadership when attempting to Manifest a Psychic Power

Or has it been FAQ'd?


Perils isn't manifesting a Psychic Power so a +3 LD wouldn't get to be used, at least that's how I'm reading it

 Bloodhorror wrote:
+3 Leadership when attempting to Manifest a Psychic Power

Or has it been FAQ'd?


Perils isn't manifesting a Psychic Power so a +3 LD wouldn't get to be used, at least that's how I'm reading it

It works fine. When manifesting a psychic power you have +3 Leadership. Perils happens at step 3 in the Manifesting Psychic Powers Sequence and is resolved immediately. So you're still in the process of manifesting when you suffer a perils.

That sounds about right.

Shows how bad my reading skills are