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Hey mates. With my store starting an escalation league for Fantasy and being forced to sell my HE for medical bills nd with the goal of this escilation league to to start a new Army, I opted in starting a new Dwarf army, as I already have a Bretonnia army and it is a good way for something different. And while looking at the Dwarf Book, I thought this would be a good time to ask a common debate question as good as the old Thunder vs Quarrelers debate (Quarrelers are the way to go fyi ). With Dwarf Core Infantry, do you prefer to run Longbeards or Dwarf Warriors, and how do you run them? At the moment, I am looking at running Longbeards w/Hw's and Shields, however I do like the horde of Dwarf Warriors with GW's for the S5 attacks. Please share any expereinces you have had with each and if you have any other advice please share it, as Dwarfs are a lot different then Bretonnia in many ways, especially the lack of magic and movement, which they make it up with T4 Infantry and strong shooting.

Why Quarellers?

I would take Longbeards because they have S4 and some cool rules. Nothing good has ever come from less than S4 in my experience. (The little I have)

pm713 wrote:
Why Quarellers?

I would take Longbeards because they have S4 and some cool rules. Nothing good has ever come from less than S4 in my experience. (The little I have)

Quarreler's have 30' inch range, which is a very nice to have and means certain armies won't be able to sit back beyond 24 inch if I take Thunderers and shoot me to death, still shoot at S4, and they can also get GW's. And I agree, WS5, S4 Longbeards are pretty sweet, however they are expensive to run.

 Rommel44 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Why Quarellers?

I would take Longbeards because they have S4 and some cool rules. Nothing good has ever come from less than S4 in my experience. (The little I have)

Quarreler's have 30' inch range, which is a very nice to have and means certain armies won't be able to sit back beyond 24 inch if I take Thunderers and shoot me to death, still shoot at S4, and they can also get GW's. And I agree, WS5, S4 Longbeards are pretty sweet, however they are expensive to run.

Oh I see that now. Thanks for explaining that.
They are but I would say you do get your money's worth out of them.

Well, I just bought 4x Boxes of Longbeards, as well as a Gyro Copter, an Organ Gun, and a unit of Quarrelers to start off my Dwarfs, however I am still debating on which rout to go at this point. Most people have suggested Longbeards, as the WS5 and S4 is just too good to pass up, but a few people prefer the Dwarf Warrior horde, as although Warriors aren't exactly stellar, a horde of them w/GW's can but the hurt on just about anything they come in contact with, especially if they get the charge off. Currently leaning more towards the Longbeards, where I plan to make 2x units of 20x w/HW & Shields, however I am still tempted to run the Warriors. Any Dwarf players out there who have had any experience with either please share.

Dwarfs are slow. Newsflash. Organ guns are pretty nice, IMHO. They do a lot of dmg and can splatter RNF units. Gyro copter is also very underpriced.

One cool thing about Longbeards is they can use up your Core tax faster. The WS doesn't matter much. Basically +1 to hit vs. decent stuff, otherwise it won't matter. ITP and Grumblers doesn't matter much either cuz Dorfs have good LD. They get a magic banner and +1S. That's where I see their worth. And less models so you can buy Special and Rare.

The runic standard can be worth a lot. With GW I think they're even better per cost than Ogre Ironguts. Slower and without Stomp but other Dwarfy benefits.

Organ guns outshoot the same core by a lot. But the difference is the Core is core and it has a lot more wounds and can fight in close combat. Try them both out.

I've been slowly gaining stunties through trades and what not, but here's my thoughts.

I'd spend my core on a horde of GW warriors, and a small 10-20ish man unit of Quarrelers to baby sit the guns.

I really like the idea of long beards, but I think the higher amount of bodies helps. I was thinking 2 runesmiths, and with this one having a lot of bodies, good place to drop the immune to DT test rune on that runesmith.

With the current rules, I would just stick with warriors equipped with Great Weapons, 10pts and cost effective, have around 30-40 in horde they do pretty good damage for 400pts worth of core. Longbeards are just to expensive for me, their like hammerers... just not as good, mainly due to not having stubborn and two attacks

I always run at least one unit of 40 of them going horde.

 Poppabear wrote:
With the current rules, I would just stick with warriors equipped with Great Weapons, 10pts and cost effective, have around 30-40 in horde they do pretty good damage for 400pts worth of core. Longbeards are just to expensive for me, their like hammerers... just not as good, mainly due to not having stubborn and two attacks

I always run at least one unit of 40 of them going horde.

That's reason why I am kind of hesitant in taking an Longbeards, as although they are good, they are extremely expensive, and as for my Special Choices, I have been leaning more towards Ironbreakers, as the 5+ Parry save and 3+ armor save is just too good to pass up. Besides that, has anyone tried running Ironbreakers in a Horde before or is it not worth it to run them like that? As for the Warriors, I only plan to field them with Great Weapons, as S3 in my opinion is not worth it in this edition, however is one Horde the 40x the max I should take or should I even consider taking 2x Hordes of 40x Dwarf Warriors with GW's?

Here's some food for thought:

- Quarrelers with great weapons are probably the best Dwarf Core, overall. Just an incredibly versatile unit. Two blocks of 15-20 seems like the best idea to me. Big enough to take some casualties or threaten a flank, but not big enough to be awkward with Move or Fire, or to really provide a tempting target over your other troops.

- Dwarf Warriors take great weapons, period.

- Longbeards with great weapons or shields are both solid choices.
The issue is, both are inferior to their Special counterparts, Hammerers and Ironbreakers.

So, first, remember that Longbeards are Core. If you want to take an elite hammer and an elite anvil unit, Longbeards could be either or both, while lets you save on points to get more 'Copters, Organ Guns, and the like.
The question, then, is what you're missing out on, when you go with Longbeards versus the Special version.

Hammerers: -1A, not Stubborn, and you get ItP and Grumblers. And you can only take a 50pt banner, so no Groth or Valaya.

Ironbreakers: -1Ld, -1 armour and -1 parry (in any round after the one you're charged in), gain ItP and Grumblers.

Looking at that, I'd say you're missing out on a lot more when you take Longbeards with great weapons over Hammerers, versus Longbeards with shields over Ironbreakers. The kicker is that banner. Your BSB wants Grungi, but Valaya and Groth are amazing, too.

So, if you want both a WS5 S6 hammer and a WS5 S4 anvil, I'd go with Longbeards and Hammerers every time.

- to address the original question, though, I think it really is just a matter of taste. My friend plays Dwarfs, and usually runs a block or two of Quarrelers, a block of Longbeards with shields, and a block of Hammerers. That way, she's got some tactical options with S4, 5, and 6. But would it really hurt to only run S5 and 6? Or S4 and 6? Or whatever? I don't think it'll make a huge difference. The only thing I wouldn't do is load up on S6 models. They're expensive, relatively fragile, and often overkill.

use longbeards with your warriors, their "old grumblers" special rule makes all dwarf units within 6 inches re-roll failed LD and Break tests,

First, Break tests are Leadership tests, so that's redundant.

Second, Break tests? That can't be right. I thought it was Panic, Fear, and Terror tests.

Third, Dwarfs are Ld9 and 10, so it's not too big of a deal anyway.

Fourth, the BSB does all that and more and at a longer range.

Yeah, Old Grumblers isn't a very good rule with Dwarfs. If Ogres or O&G had it, it would be godlike. But giving it to people who rarely have LD problems and who are stunty and will therefore likely be in the radius of BSB and IP, it's kind of redundant.