Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

DakkaFlyrant w/e. Grubs-----240
DakkaFlyrant w/e. Grubs-----240

Venomthrope-----45

5 genestealers + Broodlord w/Scything talons and toxin sacs-----144
5 genestealers-----70
5 genestealers-----70

2 dakkafexen-----300
2 dakkafexen-----300

Living artillery node
3 Warriors (one with venom cannon)-----100
3 Biovores-----120
1 Exocrine-----170

1799 points total

First question: Any suggestions on how to use the last 50?
Second question: Any suggestions for improvement? See below before you suggest to lose the genestealers, because they do have purpose.

General plan: Depending on matchup infiltrate or outflank genestealers, hope for Master of ambush to either infiltrate or outflank the Dakkafexen and Exocrine (except make sure Exocrine stays within 12" of warriors. Venomthrope does what it does behind LOS and basically castle up around it. I chose genestealers (and the Broodlord) because even though more expensive than deep striking ripper, going to ground will give them a better chance to live to small arms fire (As long as it doesn't ignore cover). If my opponent is wasting ignores cover on my genestealers, that means my bigger monsters will be relatively unscathed. Also, if I successfully infiltrate the 5 MCs (maybe 6 if I chose to infiltrate the Warlord), I will also probably bring along the Genestealer units. With that many units closing at least 6" gap closer to the closest enemy I am putting quite a lot of pressure on early. Even gun lines should be weary.

Issues with this plan: Drop pod marines will ruin me. I've got very little bubble wrap potential. Imperial knights (unless the Carnifexen do what they are said to do in the fluff). AV13 spam lists.

Living artillery node, woot!

If you don't get Master of ambush to infiltrate the DakkaFexes, how do you keep them alive / effective? Even only playing with 2 of them, I felt that their really short range meant that I needed something else that would force the enemy to come to me... and I don't see that in this list.

I've been struggling on what to take in 7th edition, and like the idea of a living artillery node, although I may be able to run the same units without it using self-allying for events that allow it (and perhaps not bother with taking the warriors). But I feel like all those short ranged Fexes will be murdered before they can really be effective if they have to hike across the board (and there is a good chance they will have to).

 RiTides wrote:
Living artillery node, woot!

If you don't get Master of ambush to infiltrate the DakkaFexes, how do you keep them alive / effective? Even only playing with 2 of them, I felt that their really short range meant that I needed something else that would force the enemy to come to me... and I don't see that in this list.

I've been struggling on what to take in 7th edition, and like the idea of a living artillery node, although I may be able to run the same units without it using self-allying for events that allow it (and perhaps not bother with taking the warriors). But I feel like all those short ranged Fexes will be murdered before they can really be effective if they have to hike across the board (and there is a good chance they will have to).

Well, without MoA, due to the Venomthrope, as long as I can get them cover they'll have a 3+ Cv. That's pretty dang good. I'll likely prioritize catalyst on them, if I roll it. Finally, if none of those things come to fruition they'll die. But they're expendable. Yes they are a huge offensive source of power in this list and losing them could be a detriment. But them I'm also not losing my Flyrants. To lose 2 Dakkafexen with a 3+ cv and FnP requires 36 wounds. This is even if I don't cycle the fexes around to put the healthy model up front. Everyone else can extrapolate what that means in terms of who's doing the shooting, but they're still pretty resilient. Again, this is 36 wounds that aren't going towards your Flyrants.

The only thing that should really ever "force" your opponent to advance towards your board edge is to capture objectives. If they aren't doing that they're handicapping themselves. I think the secret to using Dakkafexen isn't using them as the splitter, leading the charge. They work amazingly well at board control/threat deterrent. Plop them roughly 5-8" from board center and your opponent will avoid the 48" diameter circle that a single 2 MC unit can reach. I've included two so I can now spread that threat range from edge to edge.

Regarding the list as a whole, what I believe it does well is create a competition for highest priority...What would you prioritize first? In my mind it should be 1) Hive Tyrant 2) Node warriors 3) Dakkafexen 4)Genestealers Problem is, you've got to devote fire to the Venomthrope at some because it's buffing the army.

Now I'm rambling....In a vacuum it's easy to say where priorities need to be, but deployment, mission, and match up have everything to do with moving those priorities around. I guess what I envision, in an ideal scenario, if you were facing down 6 MCs at the 18" line along with 3 units of genestealers, what would you target?

The Living Artillery Node formation is easily second best (behind Skyblight of course) even though you have to take the Warriors, the TL Blasts are just so good. As for the last 50 pts, another Venomthrope can't hurt to aid in the Fexes survival in the event no Master of Ambush is rolled. Also, since you want to keep the Stealers in the list, you could always beef the squads.

The Fexes for me stay alive because the other threats are much more immediate. Your Artillery is 24-48" range, the Flyrants are up there turn 1, and the Stealers (if Infiltrated) are all perceived as larger threats. This suits the Fexes as the clean up crew if you will. I've run a similar list (only 2 Stealer squads, 10 man, no Broodlord) and they have been able to make up their points every time. Either by grabbing objectives during Maelstrom missions, or Outflanking and munching, or by protecting the bigger guys as forward distraction units. To me, although severely over costed, their ability to act independently and not require babysitting makes them usable.

roxor08 wrote:
DakkaFlyrant w/e. Grubs-----240
DakkaFlyrant w/e. Grubs-----240

Venomthrope-----45

5 genestealers + Broodlord w/Scything talons and toxin sacs-----144
5 genestealers-----70
5 genestealers-----70

2 dakkafexen-----300
2 dakkafexen-----300

Living artillery node
3 Warriors (one with venom cannon)-----100
3 Biovores-----120
1 Exocrine-----170

1799 points total

First question: Any suggestions on how to use the last 50?
Second question: Any suggestions for improvement? See below before you suggest to lose the genestealers, because they do have purpose.

General plan: Depending on matchup infiltrate or outflank genestealers, hope for Master of ambush to either infiltrate or outflank the Dakkafexen and Exocrine (except make sure Exocrine stays within 12" of warriors. Venomthrope does what it does behind LOS and basically castle up around it. I chose genestealers (and the Broodlord) because even though more expensive than deep striking ripper, going to ground will give them a better chance to live to small arms fire (As long as it doesn't ignore cover). If my opponent is wasting ignores cover on my genestealers, that means my bigger monsters will be relatively unscathed. Also, if I successfully infiltrate the 5 MCs (maybe 6 if I chose to infiltrate the Warlord), I will also probably bring along the Genestealer units. With that many units closing at least 6" gap closer to the closest enemy I am putting quite a lot of pressure on early. Even gun lines should be weary.

Issues with this plan: Drop pod marines will ruin me. I've got very little bubble wrap potential. Imperial knights (unless the Carnifexen do what they are said to do in the fluff). AV13 spam lists.

Nice! But... I fear that your Stealer Broods are too small. And you're short on Synapse, so that could become an "issue". I think you want a second Veno so you can screen both Dakkafexen Broods. Personally I would rather have a bubble wrap of Gaunts for each Brood of Dakkafexen. So I likely would not have Stealers...but that kinda spoils the whole deal... I say it's worth a test play or three.

for that extra 50pts exchange your venomthrope for a Malanthrope, if you dont do forgeworld then another venomthrope would be a good idea, maybe take three teams of one carnifexe instead of two teams of two, this would completely remove the possibility that they would attack themselves and would give you some extra points to get more genestealers. maybe some AG on the carnys would be good too

I don't know anything about the Malanthtope. Where can I find out the new stats?

I like the idea of 3 x 1 extra points into the genestealers is a neat idea. Let me read up on the Malanthtope and I'll see how I could improve it further.

roxor08 wrote:
I don't know anything about the Malanthtope. Where can I find out the new stats?

I like the idea of 3 x 1 extra points into the genestealers is a neat idea. Let me read up on the Malanthtope and I'll see how I could improve it further.

I think somebody posted ...maybe in the Big Tactics thread...? Basicly its a Veno, with Synapse, T5, Regen, and a better save...for less than two Venos, or a Veno+Zoey would cost. a FW model that is good for Tyranids...

Oh...FW/Imperial Armor #4? I think anyway..

pinecone77 wrote:

roxor08 wrote:
I don't know anything about the Malanthtope. Where can I find out the new stats?

I like the idea of 3 x 1 extra points into the genestealers is a neat idea. Let me read up on the Malanthtope and I'll see how I could improve it further.

I think somebody posted ...maybe in the Big Tactics thread...? Basicly its a Veno, with Synapse, T5, Regen, and a better save...for less than two Venos, or a Veno+Zoey would cost. a FW model that is good for Tyranids...

Oh...FW/Imperial Armor #4? I think anyway..

Is that the New "IMPERIAL ARMOUR VOLUME FOUR - THE ANPHELION PROJECT SECOND EDITION" book? (excuse the caps just copy paste from FW)

here is the malanthrope stats

http://i.imgur.com/iZVU1Wo.jpg

its awesome

 fartherthanfar wrote:
here is the malanthrope stats

http://i.imgur.com/iZVU1Wo.jpg

its awesome

Yes, Yes that is amazing. Something else added to the wishlist i think!

even though genestealers can be fun, they really arent too competitive, you can play them but top lists will murder them, if your okay with that then go for it though

I like to play them with a comm rellay to help them come out on turn 2 and since you have the Living Artillery node they also enjoy the protection the the aegis defense line offers wich can give you the comm relay. maybe you can consider it

How about this, it comes in at 1847.

DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs
DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs

8 genestealers
8 genestealers
21 Termagants
21 Termagants

Malanthrope
Zoanthrope

Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer
Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer
Carnifex w/ Crushing Claws + Adrenal Glands

Living Artillery Node Detachment
3 Warriors w/ 1x Venom Cannon
3x Biovore
1 Exocrine

I appreciate all the feedback everyone. I currently like this iteration the best and have slightly modified it myself:

 Flood wrote:
How about this, it comes in at 1847.

DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs
DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs

8 genestealers
8 genestealers
21 Termagants
21 Termagants

Malanthrope
Zoanthrope

Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer
Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer
Carnifex w/ Crushing Claws + Adrenal Glands

Living Artillery Node Detachment
3 Warriors w/ 1x Venom Cannon
3x Biovore
1 Exocrine

Changed it to:
DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs
DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs

8 genestealers w/Adrenal glands
8 genestealers
20 Termagants
20 Termagants

Malanthrope

Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands
Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands
Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands

Living Artillery Node Detachment
3 Warriors w/ 1x Venom Cannon
3x Biovore
1 Exocrine

This way, the gants provide additional protection against Drop pod armies. The AG Genestealer unit can effectively wreck a transport if necessary, and I changed the 3rd Carnifex to match the other two. Now I can get S10 on the charge and they'll be able to reliably run/charge when necessary. Finally, due to LAN warriors likely being static throughout most games, I feel that due to their potential target priority, having a Dakkafex hang out with them can't be a bad idea.

So the way I envision this list working is similar to before: Infiltrate both Genestealer units into cover/ruins as close to the enemy as possible. IF I roll MoA, I'll also infiltrate 2 Dakkafexen, the Exocrine, and the Warlord. If not, the only *bad* strategic trait is Night attacker, so I can utilize any of the other ones. I will likely chose to outflank the Genestealers if I get any sort of reserve manipulation trait.

The only thing I don't like is not having the Zoanthrope for WC boost and additional roll for catalyst. I can drop Adrenals from everything, but I like the reliability that I get in exchange.

Do you guys like the latest version?

roxor08 wrote:
I appreciate all the feedback everyone. I currently like this iteration the best and have slightly modified it myself:

 Flood wrote:
How about this, it comes in at 1847.

DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs
DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs

8 genestealers
8 genestealers
21 Termagants
21 Termagants

Malanthrope
Zoanthrope

Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer
Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer
Carnifex w/ Crushing Claws + Adrenal Glands

Living Artillery Node Detachment
3 Warriors w/ 1x Venom Cannon
3x Biovore
1 Exocrine

Changed it to:
DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs
DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs

8 genestealers w/Adrenal glands
8 genestealers
20 Termagants
20 Termagants

Malanthrope

Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands
Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands
Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands

Living Artillery Node Detachment
3 Warriors w/ 1x Venom Cannon
3x Biovore
1 Exocrine

This way, the gants provide additional protection against Drop pod armies. The AG Genestealer unit can effectively wreck a transport if necessary, and I changed the 3rd Carnifex to match the other two. Now I can get S10 on the charge and they'll be able to reliably run/charge when necessary. Finally, due to LAN warriors likely being static throughout most games, I feel that due to their potential target priority, having a Dakkafex hang out with them can't be a bad idea.

So the way I envision this list working is similar to before: Infiltrate both Genestealer units into cover/ruins as close to the enemy as possible. IF I roll MoA, I'll also infiltrate 2 Dakkafexen, the Exocrine, and the Warlord. If not, the only *bad* strategic trait is Night attacker, so I can utilize any of the other ones. I will likely chose to outflank the Genestealers if I get any sort of reserve manipulation trait.

The only thing I don't like is not having the Zoanthrope for WC boost and additional roll for catalyst. I can drop Adrenals from everything, but I like the reliability that I get in exchange.

Do you guys like the latest version?

Looks dang nice! The only add ons I'd want, are things that likely can't fit, because of points ... I really like a Veno babysitter for the LAN... But, I don't see anything to cut to make it fit... (- Adrenals? ) I don't know that the extra durability for LAN out weighs the extra agro of Adrenals... I aslo miss Zoey..but I think you're correct to leave her home...

Will you have a chance to test play this? I think that you'll want a decent amount of terrain to make this run at max efficientcy.

Good luck! And good hunting!

roxor08 wrote:
I appreciate all the feedback everyone. I currently like this iteration the best and have slightly modified it myself:

-Snip-

DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs
DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs

8 genestealers w/Adrenal glands
8 genestealers
20 Termagants
20 Termagants

Malanthrope

Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands
Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands
Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands

Living Artillery Node Detachment
3 Warriors w/ 1x Venom Cannon
3x Biovore
1 Exocrine

This way, the gants provide additional protection against Drop pod armies. The AG Genestealer unit can effectively wreck a transport if necessary, and I changed the 3rd Carnifex to match the other two. Now I can get S10 on the charge and they'll be able to reliably run/charge when necessary. Finally, due to LAN warriors likely being static throughout most games, I feel that due to their potential target priority, having a Dakkafex hang out with them can't be a bad idea.

So the way I envision this list working is similar to before: Infiltrate both Genestealer units into cover/ruins as close to the enemy as possible. IF I roll MoA, I'll also infiltrate 2 Dakkafexen, the Exocrine, and the Warlord. If not, the only *bad* strategic trait is Night attacker, so I can utilize any of the other ones. I will likely chose to outflank the Genestealers if I get any sort of reserve manipulation trait.

The only thing I don't like is not having the Zoanthrope for WC boost and additional roll for catalyst. I can drop Adrenals from everything, but I like the reliability that I get in exchange.

Do you guys like the latest version?

I played a janky list at a two day tournament this weekend that was sort of like your first list (same set of 3 5 man stealers + 1 w/ broodlord) but had 20 adrenal gland termagants (had an adrenal prime added to them -- like I said the list was janky). Couple of observations from my games as they pertain to the thread:

--The stealers were clutch in one maelstrom mission but in the other had no way of getting to the objectives I got. As expected they were a major liability in killpoint and didn't have the staying power in keeping objectives endgame. I respect what you are doing here (have 60 painted stealers myself) but I am just not seeing it working as well as we'd like.

--Broodlord was a disappointment. They may work better en masse or in that hidden warlord trick but he really did nothing that the same in plain stealers could have done for me. If I take him again he will definitely have poison though.

--Had Pedro drop pods round 5. The 20 gaunts helped for sure. Really overall I think the gaunts were worth taking. At least 20 of em.

--I like the idea of getting the zoan in there. I kinda hate the buggers (despite having 4) but having another synpase in the backfield with dakkafexes is worth it. Their 18" range on the guns forces you to leave ideal synapse and the tyrants just cannot be relied upon to be able to babysit them.

pinecone77 wrote:

roxor08 wrote:
I appreciate all the feedback everyone. I currently like this iteration the best and have slightly modified it myself:

 Flood wrote:
How about this, it comes in at 1847.

DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs
DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs

8 genestealers
8 genestealers
21 Termagants
21 Termagants

Malanthrope
Zoanthrope

Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer
Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer
Carnifex w/ Crushing Claws + Adrenal Glands

Living Artillery Node Detachment
3 Warriors w/ 1x Venom Cannon
3x Biovore
1 Exocrine

Changed it to:
DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs
DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs

8 genestealers w/Adrenal glands
8 genestealers
20 Termagants
20 Termagants

Malanthrope

Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands
Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands
Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands

Living Artillery Node Detachment
3 Warriors w/ 1x Venom Cannon
3x Biovore
1 Exocrine

This way, the gants provide additional protection against Drop pod armies. The AG Genestealer unit can effectively wreck a transport if necessary, and I changed the 3rd Carnifex to match the other two. Now I can get S10 on the charge and they'll be able to reliably run/charge when necessary. Finally, due to LAN warriors likely being static throughout most games, I feel that due to their potential target priority, having a Dakkafex hang out with them can't be a bad idea.

So the way I envision this list working is similar to before: Infiltrate both Genestealer units into cover/ruins as close to the enemy as possible. IF I roll MoA, I'll also infiltrate 2 Dakkafexen, the Exocrine, and the Warlord. If not, the only *bad* strategic trait is Night attacker, so I can utilize any of the other ones. I will likely chose to outflank the Genestealers if I get any sort of reserve manipulation trait.

The only thing I don't like is not having the Zoanthrope for WC boost and additional roll for catalyst. I can drop Adrenals from everything, but I like the reliability that I get in exchange.

Do you guys like the latest version?

Looks dang nice! The only add ons I'd want, are things that likely can't fit, because of points ... I really like a Veno babysitter for the LAN... But, I don't see anything to cut to make it fit... (- Adrenals? ) I don't know that the extra durability for LAN out weighs the extra agro of Adrenals... I aslo miss Zoey..but I think you're correct to leave her home...

Will you have a chance to test play this? I think that you'll want a decent amount of terrain to make this run at max efficientcy.

Good luck! And good hunting!

Thanks, I am really trying to work my schedule around to get several games in coming up in the near future. I'm kind of limited to 1 game per weekend, but because I'm trying to prepare for an upcoming tournement, I really look forward to hammering out a few games soon.

I'll check back in after I try it.

winterman wrote:

roxor08 wrote:
I appreciate all the feedback everyone. I currently like this iteration the best and have slightly modified it myself:

-Snip-

DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs
DakkaFlyrant w/ Electro-Grubs

8 genestealers w/Adrenal glands
8 genestealers
20 Termagants
20 Termagants

Malanthrope

Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands
Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands
Carnifex w/ 2x TL-Devourer, Adrenal glands

Living Artillery Node Detachment
3 Warriors w/ 1x Venom Cannon
3x Biovore
1 Exocrine

This way, the gants provide additional protection against Drop pod armies. The AG Genestealer unit can effectively wreck a transport if necessary, and I changed the 3rd Carnifex to match the other two. Now I can get S10 on the charge and they'll be able to reliably run/charge when necessary. Finally, due to LAN warriors likely being static throughout most games, I feel that due to their potential target priority, having a Dakkafex hang out with them can't be a bad idea.

So the way I envision this list working is similar to before: Infiltrate both Genestealer units into cover/ruins as close to the enemy as possible. IF I roll MoA, I'll also infiltrate 2 Dakkafexen, the Exocrine, and the Warlord. If not, the only *bad* strategic trait is Night attacker, so I can utilize any of the other ones. I will likely chose to outflank the Genestealers if I get any sort of reserve manipulation trait.

The only thing I don't like is not having the Zoanthrope for WC boost and additional roll for catalyst. I can drop Adrenals from everything, but I like the reliability that I get in exchange.

Do you guys like the latest version?

I played a janky list at a two day tournament this weekend that was sort of like your first list (same set of 3 5 man stealers + 1 w/ broodlord) but had 20 adrenal gland termagants (had an adrenal prime added to them -- like I said the list was janky). Couple of observations from my games as they pertain to the thread:

--The stealers were clutch in one maelstrom mission but in the other had no way of getting to the objectives I got. As expected they were a major liability in killpoint and didn't have the staying power in keeping objectives endgame. I respect what you are doing here (have 60 painted stealers myself) but I am just not seeing it working as well as we'd like.

--Broodlord was a disappointment. They may work better en masse or in that hidden warlord trick but he really did nothing that the same in plain stealers could have done for me. If I take him again he will definitely have poison though.

--Had Pedro drop pods round 5. The 20 gaunts helped for sure. Really overall I think the gaunts were worth taking. At least 20 of em.

--I like the idea of getting the zoan in there. I kinda hate the buggers (despite having 4) but having another synpase in the backfield with dakkafexes is worth it. Their 18" range on the guns forces you to leave ideal synapse and the tyrants just cannot be relied upon to be able to babysit them.

I hear you on all points. It surprises me that the Broodlord was a disappointment, but I've been told this before, so it's not completely from right field.

I have a hard time relying on 3 rippers per troop slot for Objective secured. So, adding the Genestealers is essentially be avoiding using Rippers. I mean, 9 T3 wounds that get double wounds from blasts CANT last very long. While they're really not an apples to apples comparison, Genestealers are at least a threat in melee. Rippers not at all. The only thing I can imagine that Rippers have going for them (in terms of resiliency) is that their profile is minuscule. So hiding them is easy. Genestealers, in order to maintain any similar sort of resiliency need to G2G for a 2+ (in ruins) or a 3+ (in other terrain).

My main tactic for using them is to synergize with the other *hopefully* infiltrating MCs. Deep striking Rippers have only one purpose. Stay off the board for as long as possible in order to try to sneak out an objective and for the game to end. Even if I don't infiltrate the Genestealers, they at least could *almost* act as deep striking Rippers by arriving via outlfank...


Like I said though, I will be testing like mad (hopefully very soon) and will check back in with the results.