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Ok, I just read this on another forum. Since names are mentioned I would like to hear the other side of the story before passing judgement. I feel I should read the other side of the story.

This is what I read.

Well it was Reece who said that was the final case. But after 10 minutes of arguing he certainly knew the context. Cryptek who started the game with warriors. That's why he said the cryptek counted as a troop.

So is this a screw up on BAO? Was the right call made? I know mistakes happen, but I just really like to know what people think. Right call or not.

How can a HQ unit be Objective Secured even if it's in a troop choice? I am learning the game, so I would like page numbers to read in my iPad. So if anyone knows what iPad page I should be reading, or what section because page numbers are different on iPads, I would appreciate it.

Once you attach it to the Warriors it's no longer a Hq, it's a Troop.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Once you attach it to the Warriors it's no longer a Hq, it's a Troop.

So a HQ choice is a troop choice even if all the troops are eliminated then?

He is specifically a part of the warrior squad. Crypteks can't even choose to leave like an IC can. They are a part of the unit for all rules purposes and that includes objective secured

 CrownAxe wrote:
He is specifically a part of the warrior squad. Crypteks can't even choose to leave like an IC can. They are a part of the unit for all rules purposes and that includes objective secured

Just reread Objective Secured. It says for Troop Units. The Cryptex is not a Troop Unit. It's a HQ unit. So what am I missing here now? I understand he was part of the squad. So you telling me if an character or unit joins a Heavy Support Squad or Fast Attack Squad then they are considered HS or FA now?

So now all HQ units can join a troop choice for one turn then leave it and become Objective Secured units now? If not why not?

rules citation? the cryptek just attaches to a squad, there's nothing in their description that says otherwise, or that they change battlefield roles/FOC slot. or in the necron FAQ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i checked the SW FAQ and book, looking for wolf guard pack leaders which are essentially the same thing. no FOC/role change.

Davor wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
He is specifically a part of the warrior squad. Crypteks can't even choose to leave like an IC can. They are a part of the unit for all rules purposes and that includes objective secured

Just reread Objective Secured. It says for Troop Units. The Cryptex is not a Troop Unit. It's a HQ unit. So what am I missing here now? I understand he was part of the squad. So you telling me if an character or unit joins a Heavy Support Squad or Fast Attack Squad then they are considered HS or FA now?

So now all HQ units can join a troop choice for one turn then leave it and become Objective Secured units now? If not why not?

If you leave the squad then you stop being part of that squad for rules purposes. That why this doesn't work for ICs

Crypteks can't leave the squad. That they they remain a troop even if the rest of the warriors die

rules citation that their battlefield role/FOC slot changes.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Davor wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
He is specifically a part of the warrior squad. Crypteks can't even choose to leave like an IC can. They are a part of the unit for all rules purposes and that includes objective secured

Just reread Objective Secured. It says for Troop Units. The Cryptex is not a Troop Unit. It's a HQ unit. So what am I missing here now? I understand he was part of the squad. So you telling me if an character or unit joins a Heavy Support Squad or Fast Attack Squad then they are considered HS or FA now?

So now all HQ units can join a troop choice for one turn then leave it and become Objective Secured units now? If not why not?

If you leave the squad then you stop being part of that squad for rules purposes. That why this doesn't work for ICs

Crypteks can't leave the squad. That they they remain a troop even if the rest of the warriors die

Please direct me to the rules please. I am trying to relearn how to play 40K so I would like to know where I should be reading this. I believe 40K is a permissive rule set correct? It tells you what you can do, not what you can't do. So where does it say that because an HQ unit can't leave, it can still be considered an OS unit?

Since the Royal Court doesn't take up any slot in the force org chart what would they be considered if not a part of the unit they join?

they're HQ's, tons of them don't take up FOC slots. tyrant guard for nids, honor guard for the various flavors of SM, etc.

Those all remain a unit. The Royal Court parts itself out to other units. They become part of that unit in a way none of those other examples do.

wolf guard do the same. nothing in their rules changes their FOC slot/battlefield role either.

Eldar warlocks are the best analogy. Their rules are more clearly stated than Crypteks, but they too lack a specific phrase stating that they take on the battlefield role of the unit they permanently attach to.

HIWPI, they chenge roles since if they don't, it raises some very weird conflicts under certain scenarios.

My questions seem relevant here.

Case 1: A Cryptek joins a squad of Warriors in a typical CAD. Everyone dies on the enemy's shooting phase, but the Cryptek alone returns to play with a 5+ ever living.

Is the Cryptek still considered a part of the unit of Warriors, therefore keeping the Objective Secured rule?

Case 2: The same unit above, except the Cryptek survives the shooting.

Characters do not count as a part of the unit for purposes of resurrection protocols, so the RP markers for the Warriors would be removed. However, is the Cryptek still considered a part of the original Warriors unit despite this specifically noted exception?

In either of these cases, is the Cryptek considered an HQ unit at any point?

From the character entry: "They are effectively just another trooper in their unit,...". So pack leaders and attached royal court members have objective secured just as every other trooper in their unit.

@Dilt In both cases the end result is a Necron Warrior unit with a cryptek as the only surviving member. The same as a Space Marine unit with the only surviving member a sergeant. They can capture objectives and have "objective secured".

copper.talos wrote:
From the character entry: "They are effectively just another trooper in their unit,...". So pack leaders and attached royal court members have objective secured just as every other trooper in their unit.

character entry where?

Under character types.

that's...pretty thin.

That's your opinion. A judge that has to make a call must use rules that are written, not opinions.

IMO if everything else dies it is not a troop unit. There are no troop models to make it a troop unit - Assuming he is still placed in the HQ category of the FOC.

Can he take WL traits etc out of interest?
Do you not get a victory point for killing cryptec outside the rest of the unit?

Genuine questions relating to the same, I mean if he can and if you do the defiantly not Obsec after losing rest of the unit.


Killing the rest of the unit leaves the Cryp on his own, he hasn't 'left' but he is also no longer joined to something thats not there.

Crypteks were not counted for VP if they left the court, nor did you get VP for the warrior unit until the Cryptek was dead.

Of course that FAQ is gone now...

 chelsea_hollywood wrote:
Crypteks were not counted for VP if they left the court, nor did you get VP for the warrior unit until the Cryptek was dead.

Of course that FAQ is gone now...

Could be it works in its own little world, but lacks rules.

On the up side will probably be streamlined and amalgamated into normal rules on next dex release.

The crypteks you can purchase as part of a royal court are not an HQ unit. They are purchased as part of the Overlord's slot and have special rules that allow them to attatch to other units.

Since they are not IC's, when they attatch to a Troop unit, they become part of that unit "for all rules purouse's" and basically count as a vet sergeant for the unit.

They can never detatch from the unit during the game, effectivaly becoming just another member of the unit, and therefor also becoming whichever FO slot the unit is.

Eihnlazer wrote:
The crypteks you can purchase as part of a royal court are not an HQ unit. They are purchased as part of the Overlord's slot and have special rules that allow them to attatch to other units.

Since they are not IC's, when they attatch to a Troop unit, they become part of that unit "for all rules purouse's" and basically count as a vet sergeant for the unit.

They can never detatch from the unit during the game, effectivaly becoming just another member of the unit, and therefor also becoming whichever FO slot the unit is.

So, assuming they are not joined like a IC then was played fine. Even if they are, probably intended to stay troop.

Yeah. Royal court do not attatch like an IC. They are distributed at the start of the game into whichever squads you want them in and have to remain part of that unit for the entire game.

Crypteks are a HQ-choice and you can let them join a unit of Warriors.
That would make the entire unit a Troop, so they'd have ObSec.

But once all warriors are dead, he's just a HQ that doesn't take up a slot and therefore won't have ObSec.

Crypteks are not HQ choice, the Royal Court is. You can have one in the army list under specific conditions. If all members of a unit but the cryptek die he doesn't become a Royal Court by himself. He remains just another trooper, the last trooper, in that unit.

Kangodo wrote:
But once all warriors are dead, he's just a HQ that doesn't take up a slot and therefore won't have ObSec.

No, he's not. He can't leave the Warrior unit so the Warrior unit is still around.
What you're saying is that killing a Cryptek attached to a Warrior unit will yield a VP at the end of a Purge the Alien mission even if the rest of the Warriors are around.
Or that if you attach a single Cryptek out to a Warrior unit and have the rest of the Royal Court get slaughtered, no VP is awarded at the end of PtA because that single Cryptek is alive.

copper.talos wrote:
That's your opinion. A judge that has to make a call must use rules that are written, not opinions.

So when they decided that rerollable 2+ means the reroll is 4+ it follows RAW?!?