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Hello all,

I have been around the Warhammer scene for years but have never gotten into 40k, however with the new edition I have been considering it more and more. I have been doing an extensive amount of research for the various armies and this is where I'm at:

1. I prefer quality over quantity.
2. I am looking for fun, not tournament wins.
3. Painting and modeling (+fluff) is 90% of this hobby for me. The process of building an army is an adventure as opposed to a chore.

I am attracted to the idea of building a sort of Mechanized Infantry force. (Infantry with APC's for transportation and support.) So following this idea I have narrowed my possible selections for this theme to this:
a) Marines [overplayed? I think it would get old to constantly play against the same 'species' and vehicles that I play]
b) Grey Knights [same as above + can't stand the look of their dreadnaught thing, and I hear he is pretty important to their army]
c) Tau [seems another common army, so kind of similar to the above. Also, not too much of a fan of their "transformer" themed models. I could get used to a few of them, but not many] I am apprehensive because of the fact that they seem to get annihilated in close combat, so it seems like a major drawback. If you don't kill something before it gets to you, then you die? Is that what tends to happen?

Other options include the following:
a) Necrons, however I do not like the look of their standard troops. Mostly everything else is cool looking. Elite army possibilities?
b) Iyanden Eldar, but I do not like the tall lanky wraith walkers, which further limits an already limited unit selection.
c) annndd...Orks! For some reason I have always liked the look of them. Possibilities to run them as a more elite force as opposed to massed mobs? Their troops are OK, just don't want mobs and mobs.

So, what suggestions do you guys have? I really appreciate any and all the help you can give - so thanks in advance.

I look forward to hearing what you have to say!
-impulse

Orks.
The vehicles are loads of fun to build, convert and paint.
Also, with this new codex (and, of course, supplements) there are many effective ways of running them.
Plus, you know, Orks are just fun. What's not to like?

What about regular Craftworld Eldar where each squad is an Aspect Warrior, properly built out, not 5 man squads in Serpent Spam, but a 10 man Dire Avenger squad with a kitted out Exarch, a 8+ squad of Striking Scorpions, blah blah blah all mounted in Wave Serpents. You might get three Wave Serpents at 1500pts and back it up with similar styled Falcons (maybe carrying a sniper squad of Rangers) and Fire Prisms/Doomweavers in the Heavy Support role. Outside of Imperial Guard, the Eldar have the most options when it comes to tanks if you include Forge World. Tanks built for every specific role and good transport capacity. You can run Eldar without the wraiths very easily. Biel-Tan armies are a good example. It's possible to build a very conventional army using Eldar, complete with artillery and APC transport and Main Battle Tanks.

The thing with marines is, there are a lot of flavors. Roll with Black Templars, they don't get a lot of play, offer cool conversion/rides etc.
Alternatively, I agree on the ork front actually - a LOT of character and personality to the army, and second in terms of modeling options to only chaos IMHO. Mega-armor nobs in ramshackle trukks, what's not to love??

Cheers!

Heres a thought: the army with one of the best transports, excluding serpents, and the best main tank in the game. IG makes the best armoured mech lists hands down, besides what other army can lay claim to a tank squadron as an HQ?

I too am surprised you left IG/AM off the list. Fit the mechanised infantry theme to a T, and are also very fluff friendly.

With the IG/AM, you can use striker or bmp 1/45 kits as chimeras and M1A1 Abrams for LRBTs if you are going for the modern look Mechinized Infantry look,

Thanks for the replies. I am not really looking into AM because they seem to focus on big tanks and masses of infantry. I am looking for better troops as opposed to cannon fodder. Definitely interested in an Ork list focusing on more 'elite' units as opposed to mobs of boys.

Eldar don't really interest me that much, so basically I am down to these three:

Marines Focusing on Rhinos/Razorbacks with squads
Tau Focusing Devilfish with Firewarriors + some battle suits for support
Orks again taking the more "mechanized" approach, with trukks and troops.

Its called chimeras with veterans.

IG/AM lists don't have to be all about the LRBT, an Armoured Sentinel heavy list is a hard list to kill. Same goes for Mech-Vets, or Air Vets. You'll have a fairly adapttible fighting core.

Mech-Vets are a danger to almost any thing, they are BS4 and you can take three SP weapons and give them a 4+ save (might not sound like much but it can stop bolter rounds and that +1 feeling when rolling for Gets Hot).

Know you're up against SM, then take three plasma guns, a plasma pistol and a ML, give carapace and their Chimmera ride and they are better at taking out heavy armour at rappid fire range and any one. I've desimated SM armys squads of this type.

Know you're up against Nids, the take three Flammers, with cammo cloak and defensive snares. You get wall of death if you get charged (3d3 wounds over watch and you take the assult bonuse die away for counter charge...I think )

You can even do a 101st Airborn list.

You don't need LRBTs for a good all comers list they just help

Sisters of Battle. 5 or 10 woman squads with two specials (melts or flamer usually) riding around in either Rhinos or Immolaters (essentially Sororitas versions of Razorbacks, sporting twin-linked multimeltas or heavy flamers). Or even use the Forgeworld rules for the Repressor - Basically up- armoured Rhinos with AV13 on the front. Take some Excorists for long range anti tank support and you have a solid mechanised list.

IMO, you want Tac Marines in Rhinos. Totally.

Yes, they're played a lot. For a reason. And with Chapter Tactics from the new 'dex, I feel like different player's SM armies often feel like different armies.

Your opponent might frequently have the same tech, yes, but you should have a substantially different list.

As an Ork player I'd definitely start they're the most fun to build and lots of fun to play, but you won't get the elite mobile units you're looking for. At least not without playing unbound (which is totally cool with me but who knows what your local players allow) or paying a "tax" of some throw-away units. I'd definitely recommend the Imperial Armor 8 book: lots more mechanization options there. Hmm... an all MANZ/loota/burna army tooling around in a fleet of Big Trakkz...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an Ork player I'd definitely start they're the most fun to build and lots of fun to play, but you won't get the elite mobile units you're looking for. At least not without playing unbound (which is totally cool with me but who knows what your local players allow) or paying a "tax" of some throw-away units. I'd definitely recommend the Imperial Armor 8 book: lots more mechanization options there. Hmm... an all MANZ/loota/burna army tooling around in a fleet of Big Trakkz...

I’ll vote marines.

They do pretty good as a mech force, and you have lots of different things that you can add to support them.

Take a Land Raider full of something nasty, makes for a great centerpiece for your army, both in looks and play.

Tac squads in rhinos/razors.

Pick some HS tanks to add some armored support to the force
Pick some FA units to screen the armored column.

Cool looking, fluffy, fun, and works pretty well on the table. And playing marines is a good long term investment. Some armies wax and wane in power, but marines are pretty solidly in the middle, regardless of codex or edition.

Space Marines as a whole are are primarily a Mechanized Infantry-styled army, but there is no one moreso than the Sentinels of Terra. They are the third Company of the Imperial Fists Chapter. They have a Codex: Space Marines supplement book that gives you the fluff and the rules, but basically they are short to medium ranged and heavy weapons infantry focused. You want to load those guys into Rhinos and Razorbacks and get them up close before unloading on your enemies. The only caveat is painting yellow can be a daunting task. Try it before you commit.

 Ribon Fox wrote:
IG/AM lists don't have to be all about the LRBT, an Armoured Sentinel heavy list is a hard list to kill. Same goes for Mech-Vets, or Air Vets. You'll have a fairly adapttible fighting core.

Out of sheer curiosity, how effective would an armored sentinel spam list be, maybe backs by the new anti-infantry artillery units?

 The Airman wrote:

 Ribon Fox wrote:
IG/AM lists don't have to be all about the LRBT, an Armoured Sentinel heavy list is a hard list to kill. Same goes for Mech-Vets, or Air Vets. You'll have a fairly adapttible fighting core.

Out of sheer curiosity, how effective would an armored sentinel spam list be, maybe backs by the new anti-infantry artillery units?

Pretty bad honestly, Vendettas are far more efficient and effective fire support.

The real appeal of the Sentinel is how it supports a list. They're unbreakable heavy weapon teams with AV12, relentless, and that can tie up enemy squads for often very long periods of time, gamewise, or give cover to friendly vehicles. The last two facts are the best things about them.

So you send them forward in front of your frontline tanks or, in general, guns, and put down a bit of extra fire support while blocking enemy assault infantry and threatening them with a tarpit. So in a list with plenty of important tanks, a list that sticks to the back of the board, a list with plenty of infantry, etc they're quite reasonable actually.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

To OP.

A mechanised Astra Militarum force is actually a very feasible and fun army to play, don't believe the promotional posters/images and what GW displays the army as. The AM is unique in this game because you're playing with humans you can relate to. You'll see actual heroics that would be expected of Space Marines game to game, in the Guard you get a gem amongst every so many scrubs that will genuinely make you smile. In my last game, a demolition team of 6 threw some charges and annihilated 20 Eldar Guardians and a Farseer in a turn as they hid in a ruin, smashing his infantry advance. I've had days where a Sergeant has finished off a Daemon Prince with his pistol, where an enroaching Carnifex was obliterated by a Leman Russ that powered round the corner to the rescue, or where a squad of Veterans have airdropped perfectly onto an enemy objective and held it, and that's just off the top of my head.

The fluff in the Guard is varied and very open to tailoring to just how you like it. There are about 9 different versions of Guardsmen from different regiments, which you can also use as a base for your own entirely unique one.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000?N=102296+4294966502+4294966911&Nu=product.repositoryId&qty=12&sorting=phl
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard

In terms of mechanised armies, you can play it several different ways with several different types of support, or mix it up easily from game to game. You've got airborne Vendettas, behind-the-lines Scions for forward objective holding, hard to kill Leman Russ brigades, heavy & light artillery, light flame/AT tanks and vehicles, etc. You can play low model count armies that work on quality per unit just fine, so long as you use Vets as your core.

I think AM is the best choice for mech/elite units.

Yes you can get marines in razorbacks/rhinos

But AM vets or scions in Chimeras/Taurox/valks/vendettas are very good too and honestly offer more tactical options than SM can give.

Another thing, if you want very elite, take Grey Knights with rhinos/razorbacks

Steel Legion Veterans in Chimeras with LRBT support is what you're looking for OP, trust me.

Although if you're dead set on not playing IG then I support a Marine list. You can run a great vehicle heavy SM list on the cheap thanks to Rhinos and Predators being dirt cheap.

Both IG and SM offer crazy amount of modelling fun, and if you ever get bored of your army and want to try something new IG and SM are some of the easiest minis to resell.

Thanks for all the replies everyone - I am really considering both Marines and AM at this point.

AM seems like a cool choice but I have always known them to be a mass troop army - so the "Veteran" lists you guys have mentioned is interesting.

As far as Vets go I don't see any specific models for them - do you use standard troops for them and just call them Vets?

You can either use standard IG or do what other modelers do and make your own out of other models. Stuff like Dust Tactics, Dream forge, or old carskin models.

impulse wrote:As far as Vets go I don't see any specific models for them - do you use standard troops for them and just call them Vets?

Exactly.

Anyways, I'd note that virtually every army except tyranid can run a mech list, and run it at least decently. I'd come up with some other ways of defining your idea as it's actually a bit more vague than you might think.

 Ailaros wrote:

Anyways, I'd note that virtually every army except tyranid can run a mech list, and run it at least decently. I'd come up with some other ways of defining your idea as it's actually a bit more vague than you might think.

Thanks for the last few replies. To your point, Ailaros, I would have to say my idea is somewhat based off of how I look at modern military infantry (the US). I see HIGHLY trained and well equipped troops who are supported by their APCs. Heavier support is on call when and where it's needed.

That has been my mindset for developing a 40k force - Elite troops who can hold their own on the battlefield (not cannon fodder) supported with vehicles. By vehicles I mean more on the lighter side as opposed to giant metal beasts. A "Mechanized Infantry" force that compliments eachother.

I hope that makes sense lol, thanks again! The more research I do, the more I like the idea of Marines -- AM is still an interesting option tho

Okay.

So, you don't want crummy infantry, and you don't want crummy tanks.

That cuts out eldar (crummy infantry), dark eldar (crummy tanks), guard (crummy infantry), orks (crummy tanks... unless battlewagons), most builds of marines (crummy tanks), and GK (henchmen in chimera are crummy troops, strike squads in rhinos are crummy tanks), as well as those armies that don't do good mech lists (tau, tyranid, etc.), or those who don't have expensive, elite infantry that can ride in transports (tau, eldar of both stripes, guard, etc. etc.)

So, if what you want is elite infantry AND elite tanks, well, I think what you need is a land raider list. Land raiders have decent firepower, what with twin-linked lascannons+goodies, and have all-around AV14 with HP4. Meanwhile, they can escort a variety of infantry, including terminators-as-troops lists (space wolves, dark angels, grey knights) or still-pretty-elite stuff (like CSM and regular SM.

Lots of armies can do a raider army - basically anything that can field power armor, and orks. On the plus side, that's a lot of options. On the minus, that's still a lot of choices available to you.

I definitely don't want crummy infantry, but as far as tanks go I do prefer the mid range, such as the Rhino chassis. A Land Raider might be something I consider down the road, but that is definitely heavier than I would prefer to start.

I guess what Im trying to say is that I prefer the AV12 range (Rhino, Predator, that size to use a reference) The AM Chimera is another, and the Tau Devilfish is another around what I would call the "mid range."

Get a DKoK assault brigade army from IA12. You get "stormtroopers" as troops (carapace armor, BS/WS 4, AP 3 lasguns) which is about as elite as you can get for guardsmen and can support them with a variety of tanks and aircraft. And you'll have the advantage of playing something unique instead of yet another Rhino or Wave Serpent spam list.

 Peregrine wrote:
Get a DKoK assault brigade army from IA12. You get "stormtroopers" as troops (carapace armor, BS/WS 4, AP 3 lasguns) which is about as elite as you can get for guardsmen and can support them with a variety of tanks and aircraft. And you'll have the advantage of playing something unique instead of yet another Rhino or Wave Serpent spam list.

I am still new to 40k so can you explain this a bit? I did some searching, is the Imperial Armor stuff official? The Death Korps of Krieg is it a "chapter" kind of how the Catachans are?

S eems unique which is AWESOME.

Yep.

Fluff-wise, different Regiments have different specializations and tactics. The Catachans are the Rambo jungle warfare specialists, the Death Korps are urban warfare/siege specialists, the Elysians are basically paratroopers who love jumping out of planes and using air support, and the Cadians are the mainstream "everyman" regiment who's good at everything but master of nothing, just to name a few examples.

Game mechanics wise, Forgeworld (a sub-company under GW) releases these books called "Imperial Armor", which basically offer new units and rules for existing factions. Forgeworld has special rules for a bunch of different Space Marine chapters, as well as Guardsmen regiments. The Guardsmen regiments they've created special rules for, that I'm aware of, are the Elysians and the Death Korps.

Dunno specifics on how the two play on the table-top, but I do know that the Elysian rules put an emphasis on elite squads who deep-strike en masse and ride around in gunships blowing stuff up. They're a very mobile army.

impulse wrote:
I did some searching, is the Imperial Armor stuff official?

It's as official as anything else GW publishes. Occasionally you'll encounter TFGs who refuse to play against it because they believe otherwise, but that's pretty rare and you'll occasionally encounter that kind of TFG no matter what army you play.

The Death Korps of Krieg is it a "chapter" kind of how the Catachans are?

Kind of. Fluff-wise they're the same as Catachans, just one of the countless different regiments that the Imperium produces. Rules-wise they're essentially a separate "codex" like Space Wolves vs. Blood Angels. Of course in 7th edition with GW's "take whatever you feel like" rules this doesn't really matter very much...

Awesome, this is very very interesting!

The rules that I am finding all mention 6th edition- are there 7th edition rules yet? Is that what is in the Imperial Armor book?

I may need to get my hands on a copy asap