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If you have a model who is a Minelayer and has Camouflage and Hiding L2, do they need to reveal to place the mine?

EDIT: I think you are referring to CH:3 TO camouflage and hidden deployment? That's how I phrased my response. The answer to whether a camo marker can place a mine is included in my answer anyway. Since the game stops making sense if a camo marker doesn't have a Zone of Control (and it is supposed to represent the model and is treated as such by the rules in any case not explicitly called out) I see no reason why a camo marker can't place mines with the minelayer skill. I suppose you could make the argument that placing the mine at deployment reveals the figure as listed in the rules for mines, but that is not at all RAI and I don't know anybody that plays it that way.

This is a reasonable question. The mine-layer skill says that a model can place a mine inside its zone of control during deployment, so it all hinges on whether a figure in hidden deployment has a zone of control.

The hidden deployment says that it allows the same kind of deployment as CH:2 except that there is no need to place a marker, and then lists some other differences between them. Since lacking a zone of control is never mentioned (although it does mention the figure is not present on the table, but this is directly related to the order reserve) I will assume unless someone else has a better argument that a figure in hidden deployment can place mines with the minelayer skill.

You deploy both as camo markers within 8" of each other during your deployment phase. However, during the game, laying mines will reveal the unit, just like any other camo marker that drops a mine.

There are no TO camo units with the minelayer skill.

 Red Harvest wrote:
You deploy both as camo markers within 8" of each other during your deployment phase. However, during the game, laying mines will reveal the unit, just like any other camo marker that drops a mine.

There are no TO camo units with the minelayer skill.

Yes, there are, Crocman and Clipsos.

The thing is, with the Minelayer skill during deployment phase you can deploy (within the unit's zone of control) one of the positionable weapons (be it a mine, repeater or E/Mauler) that the unit is equipped with, if a unit does this they are not affected in any other way than the number of deployable weapons they have, you can have a Minelaying Crocman (or Clipsos) deploy a camo marker (a mine) within zone of control during deployment phase and he being in hidden deployment.

If you are asking if a marker reveals itself when placing a mine, the answer is yes,it does.

 aldo wrote:
If you are asking if a marker reveals itself when placing a mine, the answer is yes,it does.

That is a good distinction to make. The only thing the minelayer skill does is let you slap down a mine (or other piece of deployable equipment) during the deployment phase at the start of the game. After that the minelayer model deploys equipment just like any other model (must be in base contact, reveals model if camouflaged, etc).

 aldo wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:
You deploy both as camo markers within 8" of each other during your deployment phase. However, during the game, laying mines will reveal the unit, just like any other camo marker that drops a mine.

There are no TO camo units with the minelayer skill.

Yes, there are, Crocman and Clipsos.

Oops. I stand corrected. No one plays Tohaa or vanilla Pan-O around here. Now of course, to wonder what changes to hidden deployment and minelaying N3 brings. We should get something out of GenCon in the next few days. (y next Monday anyway.)

Hi, the question is during deployment. It's very clear that a marker will reveal itself during the game if placing a mine during an order.

 Daba wrote:
Hi, the question is during deployment. It's very clear that a marker will reveal itself during the game if placing a mine during an order.

From the infinity WIki faq:

Is placing a Mine considered an Attack or a Movement? Does a camouflaged figure reveal when it places a Mine?

To place a Mine is an Attack, never a Movement. Therefore, a camouflaged troop reveals automatically when placing a Mine.

I am asking about Minelayer though, where the initial mine doesn't follow the placing rules.

However, this is a special skill that states the mine is not placed, but deployed so I don't see why you would drop out during deployment.

 ShatteredBlade wrote:

However, this is a special skill that states the mine is not placed, but deployed so I don't see why you would drop out during deployment.

From the Minelayer Page of the infinity Wiki (emphasis mine):

During Deployment, figures possessing this Special Skill can place inside their ZC a Camo Marker which represents a camouflaged Mine, or a Marker representing the deployable weapon with which he is equipped (E/Mauler, Deployable Repeater…).

It directly states that you can place a mine during deployment, and gives a special rule for where it can be placed. Like I said, nobody plays it that way, but strict RAW that's how it is phrased. The Infinity rules really could use a good tune-up to clarify phrasing in situations like this. Hopefully the new edition will have less "RAW problems".

 dementedwombat wrote:

 ShatteredBlade wrote:

However, this is a special skill that states the mine is not placed, but deployed so I don't see why you would drop out during deployment.

From the Minelayer Page of the infinity Wiki (emphasis mine):

During Deployment, figures possessing this Special Skill can place inside their ZC a Camo Marker which represents a camouflaged Mine, or a Marker representing the deployable weapon with which he is equipped (E/Mauler, Deployable Repeater…).

It directly states that you can place a mine during deployment, and gives a special rule for where it can be placed. Like I said, nobody plays it that way, but strict RAW that's how it is phrased. The Infinity rules really could use a good tune-up to clarify phrasing in situations like this. Hopefully the new edition will have less "RAW problems".

Ah! I see. Well I hope third ed will clear this kind of thing up

Another question, when the Minelayer is deploying the mine during deployment, can it go out of the normal deployment zone as long as other restrictions are met? (so I have a Minelayer who deploys normally in my DZ, can I place the mine within her zone of control further than the deployment zone?)

From the Wiki
During Deployment, figures possessing this Special Skill can place inside their ZC a Camo Marker which represents a camouflaged Mine, or a Marker representing the deployable weapon with which he is equipped (E/Mauler, Deployable Repeater…).
It may not be placed if any enemy troop is inside the area of effect of the deployable weapon. If the figure deploys using the Infiltration Special Skill and fails the PH roll, then a Mine Marker will be placed instead of a Camouflage marker

Yes you can deploy a mine outside of the DZ

With Minelayer skill you can deploy a mine as a camo marker within the models Zone of Control during deployment.
You can choose to deploy both under the same marker though..
Nothing in the rules specifies otherwise.. So you can hide a mine and a camo troop under one marker as far as I have understood the rules..

Tjomball wrote:
You can choose to deploy both under the same marker though..
Nothing in the rules specifies otherwise..

From the official rules wiki on CH: Camouflage:
This type of Deployment also allows 3 miniatures (All with the Special Skill of Camouflage) to be deployed under the same Marker.

First problem is "miniatures". Mines are markers.
Second problem is "Camouflage special skill". Mines do not have it, they are only deployed as camo markers but lack the other benefits (like getting defensive camouflage after discovery).

And my Shrouded minelayers would love to deploy like that