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Hey guys, so in addition to my DA I've decided to start up a CSM Legion. I'm planning on running undivided so I can pick what I want and proxy guys to try out tactics. What should definitely be on my shopping list other than troops? I currently have a razorback, rhino, and a land raider I am going to use when not in use by my DA. Thanks for all the suggestions!

Hey, brother! Glad to see you joining us.

CSM forgot how to use razorbacks when they turned unfortunately so they are not in our codex.

Undivided huh? Lots of options!

I don't really know where to start. Drakes used to be auto-include by not so much anymore. Can you give me a better idea of what direction you want to take your army? Is there a chaos legion you are trying to imitate? A more shooty or more choppy army? etc

Definitely more shooty. I'm leaning Nurgly as I really like the idea of Plague marines, and most of the other gods don't seem to hold much sway for me but I don't want to count them out in case they have some good upgrades.

That really sucks about Razorbacks, but it is what it is. In that case I have two Rhinos As far as Legions, I'm leaning towards Black Legion as I really like their color scheme and I feel they'd be the easiest reasoning wise to fold whatever mutants/daemons/already painteds I pick up off eBay into my army.

Ok! So Black Legion with a splash of Nurgle. Death Guard are all about diversity. Every soldier has a bolter, grenades, a close combat weapon, etc. Terminators are popular too.

I think you might be interested in either Abaddon or Typhus leading a squad of Nurgle Terminators or Nurgle Mutilators. Taking a squad of Plague Marines might also interest you.

As for shooty options slapping a havoc launcher on rhinos is popular as it makes them a 47 point razorback with a 10 man transport cap. Make sure you give your troops 2X the same special weapon.

If you want more elite troops you can take Abaddon to make Chosen troops and make squads of 5 Chosen with 5 special weapons!

For 212 Points

5 Chosen- 5 Plasma Guns, Rhino w/ Havoc Launcher

Obliterators are a must for any shooty CSM army but be sure to give the other Heavy Support options a look!

Typhus I am all over, as I love his design. How good is Abaddon?

Are Chosen just CSM versions of Veterans? Also, can Oblits just deepstrike or do they need a Transport?

I definitely want a squad of Plague marines, as they seem too good to pass up, but I don't have the codex yet. Are they troops or an elites choice?

How to get epic chaos forces that look good with smaller costs:

Step 1-buy dark vengeance

Step 2-Build the CSM units, mark as desired, chosen are NOT chosen, but fancy CSM/team leaders/cult marines. (never take chosen as they are set up there x_x)

Step 3-convery the tacticals to recently fallen chaos marines (plasma cannon a problem) by throwing in chaosy-bit on them, with a bit of greenstuff and nurgle rot paint they can be plague marines.

Step 4-chosify the bikers by taking down the wings, reattaching them facing backwards (rather than up) in blade style, and adding some spikes. again nurglzation possible.

Step 5-butcher the terminators to make chaos termies and/or oblits. more bits will be required here as you need power weapons for termies (you dont want fists) and lots of guns for oblits. oblits will also need mandatory GS.

Step 6-make a sorcerer out of that libby with some more chaos bits, and figure out something to do with the commander (another fancy team leader?)


So yea, it will require TON of chaos bits, but you get so many spare bits in kits nowdays that even a single box of CSM will likely have enough to chaos-up most of the DV box on top ob building its own squad, and pretty much every CSM player will have bits to trade/donate.




Answers to questions:

Oblits CAN deepstike. though they are just as good starting on the field and blasting away with long range guns while marching forward.

Chosen are like CSM veterans, except without anything that makes them any good. its 5 extra points per model and you lose troops in favor of more options to upgrade, and +1A and LD base. they are worthless except cypher's dudes. only ever take chosen AS chosen f you really, REALLY need a special weapon team. (though still overcosted even as such.) you can have 5 man with all plasma/melta/flamer though, and that has some perks.

Abbadon is a CC monster, and CC monsters are outside the meta, there is just no reason to need something that tears everything apart in CC and its not like he is undercosted, he's a monster-and costs as such.

Plague marines are elites, unless you got a nurgle chaos lord and then they become troops. given that nurgle chaos lords are usually a good chaos lord choice anyway, its not much of a sacrifice.

I would really buy the codex before you go much farther. You have too many questions for me to answer

As for Abaddon, though, he is considered to be the strongest Close Combat IC unit in the game! Only certain Monstrous Creatures can best him. He will for sure become a lord of war next going around much like Draigo and Grazghull

 changerofways wrote:


As for Abaddon, though, he is considered to be the strongest Close Combat IC unit in the game! Only certain Monstrous Creatures can best him. He will for sure become a lord of war next going around much like Draigo and Grazghull

This was probably only true on release. The Shield Eternal biker Master can take him, and unlike Abaddon, is not useless outside combat. Abaddon is also just too slow to ever get there, while the biker can usually start applying his hammer turn 2. Because loyalists get all the nice things.

Juggerlord with axe of blind fury, for sheer number of CC attacks (7+D6 on the charge [5+D6 on other rounds], wound yourself and WS1 if you roll a 1 though...) can also take a shield lord - in a challenge, and with furious charge, he wounds the bike lord on 2s, rerolls to hit (on 4+, but still...) so can easily put 5 or 6 wounds on him. Cant be ID'ed by the CM, who has fewer attacks against a 4++ save on the jugger. Likely to take two rounds, unless theyre very unlucky in saves

Cultists are very cheap models with OS, however Plagues are just better. Significantly more resilient, so you will need Typhus to make them troops, or else a bike nurgle lord

Bonus with typhus - he can turn cultists into zombies, giving you fearless FNP blobs. Lovely.

Sadly the other cult troops are pants, and I say this owning around 64 bezerkers. Plagues get two specials at 5 man (7 if you want to be fluffy) strong, FNP, T5 etc, and poison 4+

If you like a fast assault army, then maulerfiends are daemonic dreadnoughts with a 12" move not slowed by terrain, including charging. Only AV12 but can work well with nurgle bike lord with either nurgle spawn (T6!) or nurgle bikers (T6 as well, but not that cheap)

Oblits should pretty much always take nurgle, so theyre T5 - 2 wounds and terminator armour (for saves) it's nice not to have to worry about krak missiles instant deathing you.

Rhinos and all vehicles can take dirge casters, which stops overwatch. Can be useful if you want to move up to assault.

Chaos does lack a lot of nice toys, for example only godhammer landraiders, no PotMS but not cheap enough, but we can still put a bit of hurt out.

Awesome, thanks for all the help everyone! Codex is definitely next on my list, I'll keep you guys posted.

One of the neat things about CSM is that they have a bunch of units that work really well in bulk. Terminators for CSM are great, for example, and they get better the more of them you have. Same with raptors and bikes and maulerfiends and berzerkers, and land raiders, etc. etc. etc.

It really depends more on what kind of direction you want to move in than anything else.

Eeeem...how come chaos terminators get better the more you have? that makes no sense, each individual is exactly as good as the other.


Remoras are things that get better the more you got, with the networked markerlight giving a 50% to boost the entire team's BS value for each member in the team (and stacking up boosts)

The multiply on themselves, like most units in the game, but CSM units are more elite, which means they don't multiply as many weaknesses as they do strengths.

They also use marks more efficiently.

Are raptors pretty decent? I bought some off a buddy for fairly cheap, and have never used jump units before.

Chaos is a go big or go home army and people want to play it like it's specialized but everytime it's more efficient to go with a larger squad with a banner to get the extra goodies like Feel no pain for extra.

I have your starting army here! I have cult marines, special and heavy weapons, tanks, daemons, paint, and brushes!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/608043.page#7098319