Grey Knight Scouts?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Teknoist**

Why don't the exist ? Would you like to see them in the new codex ?

Me personally feel like they would be a great addition to the grey knights,
especially now that the assassins are removed from the upcoming codex(rumored).

I don't know if it would collide with some kind of lore that they grey knights might have,
would be cool if anyone had some info on why they don't exist.

**Psienesis**

They don't train them via Scouts. That's outside the combat doctrine of the Grey Knights. GK are a rapid-response force. Get in, kill everyone, mind-wipe any allies that are expensive (and execute those that are not), and leave.

**Azreal13**

From a fluff standpoint, normal Scouts are "junior" Space Marines that are still in training.

Because of the nature of what Grey Knights do, alongside the fact that they're supposedly the top 1% of the top 1%, an untrained Grey Knight is a dead Grey Knight.

**Ashiraya**

Indeed. They supposedly go from recruitment directly to veterancy because they are just that badass.

Or something of the like.

Probably they are just trained for countless years before they even see the battlefield.

**lliu**

Scouts are junior space marines. Perhaps the grey knights train them longer?

**The Home Nuggeteer**

Perhaps they understand that entrusting the chapters future to lightly armoured teenagers is a bad idea.

**The Grumpy Eldar**

Grey Knight marines are taken from various chapters in secret, if they meet the requirements to become one They have already been scouts. Hence why Grey Knights do not have them.

edit: I messed up and thought of the Death Watch instead. Derp, they got their own geneseed, right? So they can't have come from other chapters.

**Azreal13**

It's covered in Emperor's Gift. They're trained until they're combat ready, and then introduced into a squad alongside veterans when losses occur, there is no Scout company and they don't see combat until they're fully fledged, fully trained, Marines.

They do essentially go through an induction period, but not in any way comparable to being a Scout.

**BrianDavion**

The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
Grey Knight marines are taken from various chapters in secret, if they meet the requirements to become one They have already been scouts. Hence why Grey Knights do not have them.

this is wrong

**Azreal13**

BrianDavion wrote:
The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
Grey Knight marines are taken from various chapters in secret, if they meet the requirements to become one They have already been scouts. Hence why Grey Knights do not have them.

this is wrong

You are correct that it is incorrect.

IIRC, there is something in the Codex about them taking supplicants that show the right qualities from other Chapters, but before, not after, they would become a Scout.

Sold my GK book some time ago though, so could be wrong and can't check.

**The Grumpy Eldar**

I had the Death Watch in my mind.

**Azreal13**

Well, the Death Watch take full fledged Marines on secondment from their Chapter for a period, who then serve in a squad with Marines from other Chapters before returning home, so I'm afraid you wouldn't have been right there either!

**The Grumpy Eldar**

Or I mixed both. I could have sworn that there are instances of the GKs taking initiates from some chapters. At least I thought I read about it somewhere.

**Ciciro**

Wouldn't make sense to send semi-trained psykers to fight demons,

**jeffersonian000**

Strikers fill the role of "Scout" in GK armies, while GK Terminators fill the traditional "Tactical" role. However, Grey Knights do not have Scouts. By the time a Supplicant has become trained enough to survive combat, they already have all implants and a set of TDA. Grey Knights reserve Power Armor for their more experienced specialty units, while actual "veterans" become Justicars, Paladins, Champions, Captains, and Masters. Librarians, Apothicaries, and Techmarines seem to go through a different training standard, although Librarians and Apothicaries seem to be Paladins in their own right, which might indicate those two roles are veterans with additional training.

SJ

**pm713**

jeffersonian000 wrote:
. Grey Knights reserve Power Armor for their more experienced specialty units,
SJ

Why? You're giving inferior equipment to the better people? Surely it makes more sense to give inferior equipment to the less experienced so you don't waste the other equipment?.

**jeffersonian000**

pm713 wrote:
jeffersonian000 wrote:
. Grey Knights reserve Power Armor for their more experienced specialty units,
SJ

Why? You're giving inferior equipment to the better people? Surely it makes more sense to give inferior equipment to the less experienced so you don't waste the other equipment?.

You are making a false assumption that PA is inferior equipment. PA is different equipment, used for different purposes. Grey Knights uses TDA more than any other Marine force because it provides the projection they need to do the job they are tasked with. To use PA in the same environment requires a stronger will, more training, and more experience. We see in the Striker and Interceptor unit description where in tells use that it takes special training to teleport in PA as the Psyker needs to have a strong will to make up for the reduced protection of their armor. Then we have Purifiers, a specialty PA unit composed of veterans. Same thing with Purgation squads. In the Grey Knights, PA is used for specialty work by experienced veterans, while TDA is used by the rank and file combat troops.

SJ

**pm713**

jeffersonian000 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
jeffersonian000 wrote:
. Grey Knights reserve Power Armor for their more experienced specialty units,
SJ

Why? You're giving inferior equipment to the better people? Surely it makes more sense to give inferior equipment to the less experienced so you don't waste the other equipment?.

You are making a false assumption that PA is inferior equipment. PA is different equipment, used for different purposes. Grey Knights uses TDA more than any other Marine force because it provides the projection they need to do the job they are tasked with. To use PA in the same environment requires a stronger will, more training, and more experience. We see in the Striker and Interceptor unit description where in tells use that it takes special training to teleport in PA as the Psyker needs to have a strong will to make up for the reduced protection of their armor. Then we have Purifiers, a specialty PA unit composed of veterans. Same thing with Purgation squads. In the Grey Knights, PA is used for specialty work by experienced veterans, while TDA is used by the rank and file combat troops.

SJ

No I am thinking of my knowledge of the fluff where it has never been as much as suggested that PA is even equal to TDA. Reading that I just think that even if they perform well enough in PA they'd be better in TDA.

**Ashiraya**

Codex: Grey Knights, page 27, second paragraph wrote:On Titan, unlike on other Chapter Planets, there is no initial training as a Scout. There is only an unyielding and brutal regime whose success at turning raw recruits into the finest warriors in the galaxy has been honed over the course of centuries. Only a fraction of the youths who enter the Fortress Monastery as neophytes survive the gruelling trials set before them. Those who finally emerge do so armoured with a superhuman physique, unyielding will, razor-sharp battle skills and an all-encompassing knowledge of daemonic lore and psychic sorcery. In short, from a moment a Grey Knight initiate's training is complete, he is to be counted amongst the mightiest of Space Marines - and his abilities will only improve once he is tested in battle. Only here, on Titan, can recruits be trained so completely - and so fast - but only here is it so necessary.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

jeffersonian000 wrote:
In the Grey Knights, PA is used for specialty work by experienced veterans, while TDA is used by the rank and file combat troops.

Do not forget the Paladins, though.

**GreyHamster**

In The Emperor's Gift, it's strongly implied that most grey knights see double duty and actually have a suit of both. The Ragged Brotherhood was composed of scattered squads from all across the Chapter and every last one of them happened to have TDA. When they're on missions where agility is useful, they wear the power armour, when they go to face Angron, they wear the terminator suits.

**BrianDavion**

GreyHamster wrote:
In The Emperor's Gift, it's strongly implied that most grey knights see double duty and actually have a suit of both. The Ragged Brotherhood was composed of scattered squads from all across the Chapter and every last one of them happened to have TDA. When they're on missions where agility is useful, they wear the power armour, when they go to face Angron, they wear the terminator suits.

which makes sense to me.

**Zuul**

I don't think the marine legions put their trainees on the front line either. Probably for the best all things considered.

**Teknoist**

wow, thanks for all the great responses..! so scouts are pretty much a no go for grey knights.
But i still can't help but feel like they lack some sniper option in their chapter.. but maybe that's just me.

**Zuul**

Nothing is stopping you from taking sniper scouts in an allied force. Now that all imprerial forces are BFFs as far as the allies matrix is concerned it's easy cake.

**Ailaros**

jeffersonian000 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
jeffersonian000 wrote:
. Grey Knights reserve Power Armor for their more experienced specialty units,
SJ

Why? You're giving inferior equipment to the better people? Surely it makes more sense to give inferior equipment to the less experienced so you don't waste the other equipment?.

You are making a false assumption that PA is inferior equipment. PA is different equipment, used for different purposes. Grey Knights uses TDA more than any other Marine force because it provides the projection they need to do the job they are tasked with. To use PA in the same environment requires a stronger will, more training, and more experience. We see in the Striker and Interceptor unit description where in tells use that it takes special training to teleport in PA as the Psyker needs to have a strong will to make up for the reduced protection of their armor. Then we have Purifiers, a specialty PA unit composed of veterans. Same thing with Purgation squads. In the Grey Knights, PA is used for specialty work by experienced veterans, while TDA is used by the rank and file combat troops.

SJ

Then why don't the most veteran fight in flak armor? They'd have to be pretty badass to do their job with nothing but a 5+.

Furthermore, why doesn't Draigo fight naked? After all, he doesn't NEED your puny mortal armor.

**jeffersonian000**

Ailaros wrote:
jeffersonian000 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
jeffersonian000 wrote:
. Grey Knights reserve Power Armor for their more experienced specialty units,
SJ

Why? You're giving inferior equipment to the better people? Surely it makes more sense to give inferior equipment to the less experienced so you don't waste the other equipment?.

You are making a false assumption that PA is inferior equipment. PA is different equipment, used for different purposes. Grey Knights uses TDA more than any other Marine force because it provides the projection they need to do the job they are tasked with. To use PA in the same environment requires a stronger will, more training, and more experience. We see in the Striker and Interceptor unit description where in tells use that it takes special training to teleport in PA as the Psyker needs to have a strong will to make up for the reduced protection of their armor. Then we have Purifiers, a specialty PA unit composed of veterans. Same thing with Purgation squads. In the Grey Knights, PA is used for specialty work by experienced veterans, while TDA is used by the rank and file combat troops.

SJ

Then why don't the most veteran fight in flak armor? They'd have to be pretty badass to do their job with nothing but a 5+.

Furthermore, why doesn't Draigo fight naked? After all, he doesn't NEED your puny mortal armor.

Because Strawman?

SJ

**wuestenfux**

Ashiraya wrote:
Indeed. They supposedly go from recruitment directly to veterancy because they are just that badass.

Or something of the like.

Probably they are just trained for countless years before they even see the battlefield.

They are bad-ass not only fluff-wise. I battled the new SW with my GK on Tuesday extincting almost the whole wolflish enemy in a few turns.

**Ashiraya**

Not really. Gamewise they are rather unimpressive. Even when they win they often lose a large part of their army. I am pretty sure that our local GK player has managed to lose the entire Chapter by now in a relatively small space of time.

It is almost certain that MEQ are nerfed for balance purposes; they routinely suffer unsustainable casualties against enemies they'd otherwise easily dispatch. The GK codex explains a GK heavy weapon is worth ten thousand SM heavy weapons. You would never arm them with such weapons if they died so fast.