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I'm relatively new to Warhammer 40k, and I have an Astra Militarum army of about 1100 points currently. But I had been tossing around the idea of starting a Chaos Space Marine army based on the Night Lords. I've been reading the books by Aaron Demski-Bowden and the more I read the more I'm lead to believe that the 8th Legion is more like a renegade faction rather than a full blown Chaos Legion.

So my question, and subject for discussion is: Would it be acceptable to use the Space Marine Codex for the Night Lords rather than the CSM? This I ask becase I would rather use more of the SM warmachines and flyers, as they are described to do in the books, rather than mutated/possessed dreadnoughts and monstrous flyers that Chaos has to offer.

Fine with me

I think most people would be fine with any such substitution as long as it was made clear and you weren't cherry picking bits from different books.


I'm going to move this to 40k general, YMDC is generally for more technical rules questions, but no harm done.

And welcome to Dakka

You are absolutely free to use whatever codex you want, just make it clear to your opponent

I'm considering something similar - SM with Raptor tactics for Alpha Legion.

Yes, you are totally in the right to do that.

Just make sure things are modeled clearly enough. I mean a space marine and a chaos space marine are similar enough, same with rhinos and land raiders. A heldrake is not the same size as a stormtalon though, and will have different facing and firing points.

But other than that, you are pretty much free to paint and model your guys however you want.

I think it would be fine (though it might get confusing with things that have PE:CSM n stuff)

As long as they take standard equipments like rhinos and landraiders, i think it will be ok as well as there load outs (so no autocannon devastators)

I've said this for a few years now; neither book properly represents them, so you might as well go for whichever gives the best playing experience.

Night Lords probably don't deserve ATSKNF or grav-weapons, but in exactly the same way they probably shouldn't be challenging everyone to single combat either. For every Fear icon the CSM book gives you, it is accompanied by a completely unjustified Mark of Nurgle. For every Lost & the Damned alliance, you lose a Daemonic one.
There is no book that fully does justice to Night Lords as an army, so my advice would be to take an army that does *enough* while still being fun to play.

So what do you want the army to do? If you want rapid strikes, relocation, infiltration and outflanking, the Loyalist book is the way to go. It will give you power armour, mobility and LatD reinforcement. In my opinion, it's also probably a tighter ruleset with less frustrating mechanics, but that is personal.
If you want Chaotic fury, more aggressive melee units, Marks of Chaos and Daemonic allies, then the CSM codex cannot really be replicated. While I believe the Chaos Codex to be pretty naff foundations only held up by specific units, those units do actually do very nicely for themselves. Obliterators and Maulerfiends really are scary, regardless of how the rest of the army fairs.

Of course there is always option number 3, which is to take Power Armoured loyalists and then sprinkle in some Chaos units as CtA allies. For example, a core of Tacticals and Devastators, with some Spawn rushing forwards with Cultists in the back.

As a final thought, for all the stories about Night Lords hating Chaos and being too cool for Cults, they also reinforce that these are outliers and the majority of the Legion is full-Chaos. Talos is special because he is the agnostic among a Company of heretics, with his Khorne squadmate and Tzeentch captain. Or Sahaal coming face to face with his Daemon Prince friend and legions of screaming Raptors.

Thing about traitor legions is most of them are made up of a bunch of warbands, shadows of their former self.

Kharn the Betrayer broke up the World Eaters
Ahriman's casting of the Rubic broke up the Thousand Sons
The Slave Wars broke up the Emperor's Children

I think the Night Lords are just disorganized due to their nature and also the shameful but honorable death of their Primarch.

I think taking warp talons, raptors, and all sorts of daemon engines are more reflective of what they have become, and that what you are looking for is a 30K Night Lords army. BUT! That's me, and not you.

I would be totally fine having someone play against me with a SM army painted CSM style! Go for it, I say!

Make sure you use raven tactics! Most similar I think.

Sounds totally fine to me! I like the idea!

Check out the Forgeworld array of alternate Chapter tactics, too. Space Sharks might work for you, I think they have some Fear based rules.