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Proposing some changes to get the the codex a bit more balanced and to get more variations in the types of armies that will come out of Tyranid armies. I have a few key points I want to adress, mainly would like a worthwhile close combat alternative for the flyrant, get a few of the troops some light buffs to get them back in line with other armies, get the Shadow in the warp to screw with psykers casting their spells again, make Instinctive behavior a bit less powerfull and fixing the Venom Cannon and scything talons.


- The Instinctive behavior is split 12-345-6, as in bad consequence on "1" and "2" , but not on "3"
- Shadow in the Warp augments in range as Synapse does too and causes -1Ld to every enemy and -1 to cast for psykers too.
- MC Smash is ap1 (all armies)

- Scything Talons lose the ap6 but give back the re-rolls to hit (single pair is only "1"s but double Pair is all to hit.)
- Adrenal Glands also offer +1 to run and charge distances
- Venom Cannon & Heavy Venom Cannon are Assault 2 Blast but costs 10pts more each (for Harpy as well)
- Prehencible Pincer and Bone Mace Tail Biomorph each have ap3
- Regeneration goes down to 20pts
- Boneswords "Lifestealer: you gain a previously lost wound on the "6" to wound if it kills his target. -- When taken as a pair (not with a Lash Whip) Boneswords are Ap2
- Lash Whip "Swiftstrike" gives +2 Ini and +1 Ws instead of +3 Ini (not transferable by Alpha Warrior ability for Tyranid Prime)
- Miasma Cannon turn to 24" range Large Blast instead of 36" range Small Blast
- Spell - Catalyst gives Eternal warrior if target is within Synapse range as well as the normal Feel no pain.
- Spell - Warp Lance is ap1, Warp Blast is Str6

- Swarmlord gets a 2+ArSv and +1 to steal the Initiative roll but cost 300pts (+15pts)
- Tyranid Prime costs 100pts (-25pts) Can get Wings (jet pack) for 15pts

- Hive Guards have "Symbiotic Targeting" (Bs4 when not moving)
- Lictors and Deathleapers get a 4+ArSv

- Genestealers get -1Ws & -1 Ini but cost 12pts each (-2pts)
- Hormagaunts Adrenal Glands cost 1 pts/model and Toxin Sacs cost 2 pts/model
- Tyranid Warriors are 28pts each (2 pts less) can get Deathspitters for 2pts instead of 5pts
- Rippers get +1 Ws & +1 W.
- All gaunts units (Guargoyles included) can get a "Unlimited Numbers" upgrade for 20pts (come back from reserve if wiped out on a 4+)

- Shrikes get a 3pt increase(33pts) but get a 4+ArSv
- Crones Get Torrent on Drool Cannon and TL on all vehicles instead of all flyers with Tentaclid but becomes 160pts (+5pts)

- Tyranofexes Acid Spray is Str5 ap3
- Mawlocs, Trygon and Trygon Primes can get a Thorax Biomorph if they want



Single actual downgrade to make it all even out:
- Malanthrope cost 10pts more each



This is only about a third of all the changes I would really want but these are the most important ones.

Some people were talking about making the bad effect of instinctive behaviours being only on a "1" but that is pushing it too far, "1"&"2" will still happen enough that you dont want to risk it but wont make as likely to be bad.

the Fyrants Close combat version here will still be a fair amount more expensive then the common Dakkaflyrant but with these changes will actually be a decent option to replace the "classic" Flyrant. Prehensible Pincer going through Astarte Armour was needed or no one would ever use it in a competitive setting, adding to this that the lash whip will make him go to the almighty 9Ws, and the BoneSword can actually heal some wounds every now and then. Fixing the Venom cannon to shoot twice makes it an actual option and since it doesnt work too well with the TL Dev then slapping on BS&LW and EGrubs makes a perfect combination for 25pts more than the original flyrant (45 if you add regeneration) or you can go for a cheap version of close combat with double Scything Talon, PPincer and EGrub for only 220pts banking on Vector Srikes and Warp Lance for second weapon shooting.

Shadow in the Warp is the biggest asset that Tyranids have by far in the fluff and right now it does just about nothing (ok its nice every now and then for psykic scream but still), the change im proposing is a big buff but not that much better then the original one from last edition. this makes Nids really feel like your fighting where fear is in the air and psykers want to scratch their eyes out.

Rest of the rules are self explanatory

how does this look guys?

no coments at all, I dont know if people like this or not?

Some of it is good, but I don't feel you're really addressing the problems with many of the units. Lowering the points cost of Genestealers in exchange for nerfed stats does nothing for them, for instance.

I am a firm believer that all Genestealers need to become really effective lurkers/shock troopers is a) Stealth and b) assault grenades (call it Alien Reflexes; no Initiative penalty for assaulting into/through terrain).

Hive Tyrants should get Armoured Shell back (and maybe even access to additional wounds/toughness, representing bigger Tyrants on the ground), and/or the ability to take far larger broods of Tyrant Guard, which is also cool.

It's easy to fall into the trap of looking at a thought experiment like this on a unit by unit basis, but really we need to look at the army as a whole.

Let's look at it phase by phase.

- Movement
We've lost a lot of our speed when it comes to ground units because we lost Mycetic Assault and Trygon Tunnels are poorly written. We have plenty of fast fliers, but Tunnels and Deep Striking could be looked at. Increasing the speed of some of the less conventional movers (serpents as Beasts?) is also an interesting avenue. If Tunneling Trygons deployed on Turn 1 like Drop Pods and their Tunnels were viable from Turn 2 then a whole lot of options open up.

- Psychic
We lost our defence against Psykers, gained the ability to punish mis-casts and can spam Psykers readily enough. All we really need to do here is tidy a few things up with the existing powers (Warp Lance back to AP1, maybe even have a WC3 version that is an AP1 Beam?), tie Shadows to Synapse Range and either have all Tyranids within Shadows range gain Adamantium Will or perhaps (cooler) have all enemy Manifestations require an extra Warp Charge to work?

- Shooting
We've got this covered, aside from a few anomalies. Monstrous Deathspitters (S7 AP4?) could use a look, as could Venom Cannons (Assault 2?) and the Rupture Cannon (if both shots hit, an automatic additional S10/AP1 hit is resolved to represent the chemical reaction?). Pyrovores would be a lot more interesting with Torrent. Tiny changes here though. Symbiotic Targeting for Hive Guard and Tyrannofexes is a cool idea too.

- Assault
Probably the phase we've lost the most on over the years. Assault Grenades (either from Flesh Hooks on Tyrants etc, or thematic "alien reflexes" ideas as mentioned on the Genestealers above) and Scything Talons granting re-rolls again goes a long way towards fixing that though. Given how 5th/6th/7th have punished Assault over and over, a combination of point reductions for assault-only units (Hormagaunts down to 4 points like Termagants, Raveners and melee Warriors being cheaper and so on), assault grenades and a little more reliability in assault are not unreasonable as the units benefiting from these buffs have to actually reach assault to function, unlike ranged units which are effective for a lot longer.

Not feeling good so really can't comment. All I see is buffs. I am a Tyranid player. Well I don't play anymore, but just collect.

To me that is not Tyranids. I don't know, it just seems, I want to win with my army. You had a lot of good ideas but this

Spell - Catalyst gives Eternal warrior if target is within Synapse range as well as the normal Feel no pain.

Just screams, I need to be over powered and win. This is so un Tyranid I just ended up stop absorbing what I was reading. I know we all have our different versions on what a Tyranid should be, but this killed it for me.

Also a MC smash at AP1? Why? We are living tissue. We are basically doing a tackle, never liked this rules. How can a MC or say a Linebacker be more powerful damages wise than a bullet? Don't like the rule at all.

@ mr Davor:

while its true im mostly proposing buffs, i feel The Tyranid codex is in need of some buffs.
Not really on the units already being used, just on the ones being neglected.

The Smash buff is due to the major nerf that smash got this edition, if you feel that smash doesnt deserve a bit of a buff after 7th then I assume you dont really play with MCs, I felt it could get a small buff to bring it back somewhere between what it was and what it currently is, and the logic behind the Smash hit being ap1 is that if on regular hits a MC can have ap2, I figure that if they put all their power into a single hit it would be possible for them to get ap1 on that single hit. considering the new vehicule damage chart this brings it back to what it was (on smash) but with only a single attack so still majorly weaker than before. is this really asking for too much?

The Eternal Warrior thing on catalyst is a bit strong but I dont feel it would be op when considering some of the spells that are accessible in the BRB. the BRB spell lists are all much better than the tyranids Hive Mind powers, I proposed something to get it to a similar level as them since Nid dont have access to BRB spells anymore whereas all other armies have access to them.
Eternal Warrior I find is a great rule because it often times wont do anything, aside from potentially just not losing a big dude out of nowhere which often times really sucks, This is great cuz its not really op, but can avoid what can often times be a bad twist in a game.
I'm also making it a "conditinal" Eternal Warrior instead of, for example, Biomancies Endurance which even though is warp charge 2 is much better in every aspect then my proposed catalyst.
If you ask me its a perfect alternative to Endurance while being warp charge 1, actually its what endurance used to be...only not as good.
also the idea that it would be un-tyranid is ridiculous since Tyranids are the first codex to develop the eternal warrior concept, before that ability was even know as "Eternal Warrior" tyranids had it when in synapse, exactly like im proposing, only through a spell.


@ mr Xyptc

I really like the rupture cannon fixe you proposed, thats really cool. symbyotic targeting with this on top would make them a very viable long range anti tank.

I also agree that the hive tyrant should get an armored shell option again

The genestealers are almost good, their main issue is an issue most close combat fighters in 7th edition deal with, not being able to reach close combat. This is an issue that needs a fix for all those types of unit in the BRB of 40k.

My recommendation on this would be something along the lines of:
- Infiltrators, Flankers, Deepstrikers and Disembarking units can charge on the same turn that they come in to play but CAN'T fight this close combat round, they need to wait untill the opponents close combat phase giving him the option to counter charge with other nearby units. You can't do it to a vehicule since they dont get locked into combat.

Lowering the genestealers point cost totally adresses this issue since with being less costly you get more bodies, for the price of 6 old genestealers, you get 7 with my rules, making it more likely to reach close combat, considering that they already have great stats for their points I dont think they need a staight up buff, lowering 1 Ws and Ini doesnt affect them much at all. but costing 2 points less each is totally usefull for them, its a fair trade

Movement is about as good as before considering the flyers we got but the mycetic spore we lost, I do love the idea of trygons coming out first turn like drop pods though.

psykic defense has been adressed in my changes:
"- Shadow in the Warp augments in range as Synapse does too and causes -1Ld to every enemy and -1 to cast for psykers too."

shooting had mostly tried to be fixed by making Venom Cannons an actually option again.
- double shots but 10 pts more each

And giving symbiotic targeting to Hive Guards
That Rupture Cannon buff with the extra ap 1 hit if all shots hit is sweet though

How about increasing the Toughness instead of giving out Eternal Warrior? Would that help in stopping Instant Death?

It would, but it would also be much stronger then what I was proposing and the issue seemed to be that what I was proposing was already OP strong to the point where you wouldnt even consider the rest of my proposal.

an extra Toughness is something that is gonna have an effect on, im gonna assume 80% of hits the creatures take,
While Eternal Warrior would only help maybe 15% of the hits the models take considering the rarity of instant death and the difficulty to doundle the strength of a T6 MC.

When considering my changes to catalyst I wanted something to give it a little bit of oomph to it cuz I was jealous of what other armies get, I figured that Eternal warrior is an underused great ability which isnt that likely to do anything all game but can prevent something ugly to happen and then I chose to make that ability conditionnal to being in synapse to downpower it a bit more.
This seemed like a fun way to add Eternal Warrior for Nids and to throw a little oomph at Catalyst to bring the Hive Mind powers back to being a good list of spells.
Well, that, with light changes to Warp Blast/Lance as well.

The reason I say no EW is because GW seems to be going away with it. A lot of units that had EW don't have it no more. It seemed almost every unit seemed to have EW which basically meant that ID useless.

How about if your opponent has an ID rule, it becomes cheaper if you will give yourself EW?

I don't like EW on Tyranids...maybe on Old One Eye since he doesn't seem to go down at all fluff wise and might make him playable next to Carnifexes.

I'd like Biomancy worked into the Tyranid Powers (I don't think FMC should be swooping around with T9) as fluff wise, they adapt to their enemy, yet aren't connected to the Warp as humans are. They should also have some sort of transport (Mycetic Spores for Drop Pods assaults, similar units for Dedicated Transports, smaller versions of the Harridan and Hierophant perhaps?).

I would also like Smash to be an automatic hit, since this is where I think we lost most of our power to hurt vehicles when 7th rolled out. Or give Monstrous Creatures Armourbane? Something to help with vehicles.

I would also like to playtest Preferred Enemy (Everything!) as fluff wise Tyranids attack everything - even other hive fleets where the victor absorbs and utilizes the defeated fleets traits. If PE is too overpowered, then don't include, or maybe have a requirement for it (purchase points wise, or have a similar unit in reserve have preferred enemy, showing adaptation).

Trygon desperately needs a rules revamp, the FW Dimachaeron just outclasses it. I don't know what could be done though. The Tunnel needs rewording, maybe have them as an assault vehicle Ravener Transport? Making both units more viable since you have a reliable way to get them into combat (maybe making the Trygon tougher as a result, T7?)

Finally, I would make is give all template weapons Torrent and maybe a points reduction for Shrikes and Warriors, or increase their Armour Save to 4+ and 3+ respectively.

I find it easy to improve the Tyranid Codex, but find it hard to balance it externally...I don't think the Tyranid Codex is bad after playing with it for a bit and beating my friend's Tau consistently, I think the problem is Codex's which are deemed, unfair and overpowered (Eldar for example).

I do like that Rupture Cannon rule though

@ Mr Davor
just because GW is going in a direction doesnt mean its a good direction right? whats your personnal view on EW, do you think its op? I really dont.

Making all other codexes ID units cost less is a very complicated solution, requiring to touch up rules on dozens of units, I'm trying to keep it simple. Im also trying to give a buff to the Hive Mind powers so there is no need to counter balance elsewhere if the buff is at the right level.


@ Frozocrone

Why don't you like EW on Tyranids, they are the army that can use it best with all of their multiple wound creatures. and they discovered the ability too.
Adding Biomancy to Nids would give them Eternal Warrior BTW, and it wouldnt even be conditionnal to being in synapse.
Tyranids dont use the Warp at all so I agree that they shouldnt have access to biomancy, the issue is that their powers dont rival the BRBs powers lists.
The Hive minds powers list do need a light buff, can we agree on this?

my proposal is that smash hits are ap1, this help against vehicules, no need to make them auto hit too.

PE rule has been added in an "adaptive" manner through the malanthrope which is so full of win its crazy, actually its clearly underpriced and requires a light nerf if we are considering a rebalancing of the nids.
Adding PE across the board is a super strong buff and nids dont need something this strong. we already have a lot of great units and making them PE would make them lean towards op, I mostly just want the neglected models to find their place and a very light buff across the rest.

Trygon does need a bit of a buff, adding thorax swarm possibility, re-rolls on to hit from Scytal and that he deepstrikes on first turn is a fantastic fix for him. maybe he would need a bit of a point increase for all those buff.

giving all template weapon torrent is also much too strong, ElectroshocGrubs is already super popular as an option and does not require a buff at all.
The Crones Drool Cannon kindof needs it but certainly not all the template weapons.

 fartherthanfar wrote:
@ Mr Davor
just because GW is going in a direction doesnt mean its a good direction right? whats your personnal view on EW, do you think its op? I really dont.

Making all other codexes ID units cost less is a very complicated solution, requiring to touch up rules on dozens of units, I'm trying to keep it simple. Im also trying to give a buff to the Hive Mind powers so there is no need to counter balance elsewhere if the buff is at the right level.


@ Frozocrone

Why don't you like EW on Tyranids, they are the army that can use it best with all of their multiple wound creatures. and they discovered the ability too.
Adding Biomancy to Nids would give them Eternal Warrior BTW, and it wouldnt even be conditionnal to being in synapse.
Tyranids dont use the Warp at all so I agree that they shouldnt have access to biomancy, the issue is that their powers dont rival the BRBs powers lists.
The Hive minds powers list do need a light buff, can we agree on this?

I don't agree with it as it's going to make bugs incredibly difficult to kill, especially the bigger bugs. For named characters like the Swarmlord, it could be OK, provided they are correctly costed, but army wide shouldn't happen. Warriors would still be able to dish out the same amount of dakka each turn, until a model had suffered three wounds (in which case you move the models around so that this never happens). The bigger bugs are going to be even tougher to bring down if they had Eternal Warrior - with FMC which are already hard to hit, having Eternal Warrior just makes them ridiculously hard to kill and the final issue is that if Biomancy is worked in so that you can increase Toughness, the bugs that this receive these buffs are going to be extremely durable and make their points back very easily, almost every game.

In regards to Hive Mind powers...yes I agree about giving them buffs, or on the other hand reduce the power of BRB powers, just make sure that Codex powers and BRB powers are on the same power level is all I ask from GW

my proposal is that smash hits are ap1, this help against vehicules, no need to make them auto hit too.

Oh I meant Smash remained at AP2 while auto hitting, yeah AP1 could work.

PE rule has been added in an "adaptive" manner through the malanthrope which is so full of win its crazy, actually its clearly underpriced and requires a light nerf if we are considering a rebalancing of the nids.
Adding PE across the board is a super strong buff and nids dont need something this strong. we already have a lot of great units and making them PE would make them lean towards op, I mostly just want the neglected models to find their place and a very light buff across the rest.

Agree about the Malanthrope, it's pretty undercosted for what it does.
PE was a thought, but I can understand why it would be overpowered for a Codex with some great units. Malanthrope rules ensure that it will likely never occur anyway.

Trygon does need a bit of a buff, adding thorax swarm possibility, re-rolls on to hit from Scytal and that he deepstrikes on first turn is a fantastic fix for him. maybe he would need a bit of a point increase for all those buff.

Yeah, every Nid player wants their Trygons playable I'd like to see him DeepStrike first turn (re-rolls from Scything Talons is an obvious buff I would give him).

giving all template weapon torrent is also much too strong, ElectroshocGrubs is already super popular as an option and does not require a buff at all.
The Crones Drool Cannon kindof needs it but certainly not all the template weapons.

I forgot about all those Thorax biomorph, yeah it doesn't make sense for them to have Torrent. The Hive Crone should though. Maybe the Pyrovore, or make it more durable so that it can actually run up and utilize it's Template.

Comments in red - as I originally stated I think, while the nid Codex does need improving in some areas, other Codexes need to be toned down a bit so that there is external balance. Shall probably never happen but a nid player can dream

@ Farther than far, I never did like the EW rule in the first place. One of the reasons why I quit 5th edition was because it was taken away from Nids and almost given to all the SM factions. Grrrrr.

I guess I just got use to not having EW that is a reason why I don't like it.

I have to apologize, I have been putting my views on you and I shouldn't have done it. I forgot rule number 1. Have fun. So if this will give you more fun and your friends agree, then Yes why not? Sorry about that friend. Sometimes you forget stuff. Just because I don't agree with it, doesn't mean you shouldn't use it.

I can't remember how it was done in 4th edition, but I remember something about no Tyranid unit dies until the end of the turn if in Synapse because the will of the Hive Mind can keep the Nids going some time on.

How about using as it was in 4th edition? At least you can say it's fluffy.

@ Mr Frozocrone
I dont think that adding the option of EW for Tyranids would make them THAT much harder to kill, even if you were garanteed to get catalyst, which really isnt the case.
I've played many games with Nids and very few are the times eternal warrrior would have done anything, even if it wouldve been added freely across the board.

Tyranid Warriors are probably the ones which would benefit the most from it since str8+ shots do get thrown their way, and I dont think that Tyrands warrior getting a bit of a buff is whats gonna break Tyranids right?
Actual instant death weapons are rare so the majority of my units (which are MC) dont need it at all except in very particualr scenarios, and If I am required to plan strategically to use an abilities which can fail through casting or deny the witch or not rolling the power at the start of the game, or getting outplayed by my opponent...well it doesnt exactly seem op to me.

Used well, adding a conditionnal EW on Catalyst could be a game changer, but most of the time, woudnt even do a thing.

I kindof like the idea of smash being autohitting but remaining ap2 but it doesnt make sense in my head fluff-wise, the MC is putting everything he has into more power, not precision.

@ Mr Davor

No need to apologize bro, you were giving me your point of view which is what I was asking for in posting this. It gave me some solidity in what I thought by arguing my points.

Discussing our points, we are not arguing.

You know what I always wished for in a Nid codex? We adapt.

Say we die from ID, the next units that come back will get EW. If they die from CC, Nids get something that would help them in CC what ever that be maybe better toughness.

If they keep getting shot at, maybe they get better armour when they come back.

Just an idea and something to think of and ponder, or debate.

By comming back do you mean the "unlimited number" thing or next game type of deal?

I meant like unlimited number thing, without number what ever it's called. Been away from Tyranid rules for a bit so sorry can't remember the correct rule they call it now.

Davor wrote:
Not feeling good so really can't comment. All I see is buffs. I am a Tyranid player. Well I don't play anymore, but just collect.

To me that is not Tyranids. I don't know, it just seems, I want to win with my army. You had a lot of good ideas but this

Spell - Catalyst gives Eternal warrior if target is within Synapse range as well as the normal Feel no pain.

Just screams, I need to be over powered and win. This is so un Tyranid I just ended up stop absorbing what I was reading. I know we all have our different versions on what a Tyranid should be, but this killed it for me.

Also a MC smash at AP1? Why? We are living tissue. We are basically doing a tackle, never liked this rules. How can a MC or say a Linebacker be more powerful damages wise than a bullet? Don't like the rule at all.

Let's see, what would do more dmg if you wore bulletproof armor. A bullet, or a car smashing into you?

And the eternal warrior isn't THAT bad fluffwise. "the power of the hive mind commanding a creature that would otherwise be cripple to stand up on its broken legs (or what's left of them) and fighting on whereas normally it would've just been unable to.
Now gameswise it would be pretty strong on warriors and Zoanthropes.

true, warriors would be the biggest winners if an eternal warrior option was offered but its not like Warriors are OP, I doubt people will complain about warriors gaining a bit of a buff.

either way I already argued my points with Mr Davor, I believe we are just not seeing it from the same perspective and wont agree on this.
Its Ok, I posted this to get many different ppls perspective on my proposed rules change since I know that some people will cry against changes whatever is proposed.