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The Necron unit, Deathmarks, have a special rule called Hunters from Hyperspace. It allows them to mark a (non-vehicle) target when they deploy. Once marked in that fashion, all deathmark units that shoot at or strike blows against that unit will score a wound on a roll of 2+.

Gargantuan creatures state that if a rule would inflict a wound on them on a set die-roll, it does so on a 6+ instead.

Which one takes precedence?

It seems pretty straight forward, with the Gargantuan creature rule making the mark basically useless against them. In fact, careful reading of the rule may answer the question, but I don't have immediate access to the current edition rule-book.

That said, what I do know is that the Hunters from Hyperspace rule clearly states that against a marked target, all of their shooting and melee attacks will wound on a 2+.

So far as I am aware, this would grant them special permission against gargantuan creatures, as their rule only protects them from things that Always wound on a set die roll, and not against things that only wounds Them on a set die roll.

In addition, the codex rule would trump the core rulebook rule, and take precedence. All other rules that inflict wounds on a set roll (that I know of) are in the core rulebook. So, while the gargantuan creature rule would be able to deny all of those rules, being in the codex may make Hunters from Hyperspace an exception.

To my knowledge, nothing prevents a Special Rule from changing the value found within another Special Rule.

Not would it fit the criteria of being a "conflict" either, both Rules are capable of being applied to the situation without one of the Rules involved having to be ignored for the situation to resolve. In fact, the Rule being quoted would have no purpose if all it took to create a conflict was for it to state a different value then that found in a Special Rule. This is because the only way for a Model to Wound on a Set-Value would be if a Special Rule granted the Model permission to ignore the default To-Wounding rolling process entirely. If the Rule in question could not change the Value of a Special Rule then it would have no purpose....

hunter from hyper space trumps the gargantuan rule,you mark if for death and wound it on a 2 up,and rend on a 6 ,makes it a ap2, i got it ruled on,by fronline gaming and team stomping grounds and then BAO and nova.so yep deathmark can kill a trans ctan easy.

 lucian the dead one wrote:
hunter from hyper space trumps the gargantuan rule,you mark if for death and wound it on a 2 up,and rend on a 6 ,makes it a ap2, i got it ruled on,by fronline gaming and team stomping grounds and then BAO and nova.so yep deathmark can kill a trans ctan easy.

Tournament rulings hold no water here as they are only applicable at that specific tourney.


However, that said, HfH wins out due to conflict (BRB says 6+, HfH says 2+, codex wins).

Hunter from hyperspace says the unit wounds on a 2+.

Guargantuan creature rule does not change anything that wounds on a set value to 6+. It only changes poison and sniper to 6+.

Oh snap, deathmarks have snipers..........

Both rules directly contradict each other and both are specific rules. In such a situation however, I guess you could argue codex (necrons) trumps BRB.

Ah, helps to review Rules before posting but when your not at the Library what are you going to do?
If it singles out just Sniper and Poison, and does not modify just any Special Rule with a Set-Value, then it does not even come into play.

Gargantuan only mentions poison and sniper. Hunters does not change sniper it gives an ability to the unit to wound on a 2+.

Yes grav, but dont forget that the deathmarks are firing snipers. This is where the issue comes up.

2 set modifiers that directly contridict each other.

HfH says they wound the target on a 2+.

Guargantuan creature rules say snipers wound on a 6+.

Both rules are in effect. We have to determine which supersedes in such a case. As mentioned, however, I suppose codex over BRB takes precedence.

wouldn't HfH take president because of basic v advanced. Basic Gargantuan creature rules trumped by specific advanced ones in the necron codex?

The RAW of it yes Codex over BRB. The logical version, assumed RAI, being that the unit is not using sniper to wound, which is what the gargantuan rule was designed to negate, it is using HfH.

The gargantuan creature rule in question is this one. (i'm posting it since it hasn't been quoted verbatim)
"Unstoppable/ ...In addition,attacks with the Sniper special rule only causes a Wound on a roll of a 6. Attacks with the Poisoned special rule only cause a Wound on a roll of a 6 (unless the attack's strength would cause a wound on a lower result." pg71

hunters from hyperspace rule part in question "...Any Deathmark unit that shoots at, or strike blows against, a unit marked in this fashion will score a Wound on a roll of 2+."

HFH changes how Deathmarks wound to a 2+ on marked units and does not talk about the sniper USR. The gargantuan rule says any attacks with the Sniper special rule. When shooting with the Synaptic Disintegrator the attacks still have the Sniper USR.

my view of silly RAW: Deathmarks can punch a T'catan to death easier then shooting it.

Oberron wrote:
The gargantuan creature rule in question is this one. (i'm posting it since it hasn't been quoted verbatim)
"Unstoppable/ ...In addition,attacks with the Sniper special rule only causes a Wound on a roll of a 6. Attacks with the Poisoned special rule only cause a Wound on a roll of a 6 (unless the attack's strength would cause a wound on a lower result." pg71

hunters from hyperspace rule part in question "...Any Deathmark unit that shoots at, or strike blows against, a unit marked in this fashion will score a Wound on a roll of 2+."

HFH changes how Deathmarks wound to a 2+ on marked units and does not talk about the sniper USR. The gargantuan rule says any attacks with the Sniper special rule. When shooting with the Synaptic Disintegrator the attacks still have the Sniper USR.

my view of silly RAW: Deathmarks can punch a T'catan to death easier then shooting it.

Seems to me that the RAW here would allow the HtH to overcome the unstoppable rule. The codex says that all their shooting attacks wound on a 2+, the core rule book says they wound on a 6+ if they have the sniper USR. To me, this is a clear cut case of the codex being more specific (unstoppable applies to Any sniper weapon, HtH applies only to the death mark's unit) And of codex trumps core, as the 2+ to wound is granted by the codex and not a USR.

Only on 6+

Any rules to back that asssertion up, or to contradict others?

If not youre breaking the tenets of the forum.

The gargantuan creature rule does not make 'any set modifier' into a 6+. It only does so for sniper and poison hits.

Yes Deathmarks are equipped with sniper weapons but they do not use this special rule to wound on a 2+, this comes from another special rule which is not covered in the gargantuan creature special rule.

Before it gets FAQ-ed, codex wins against a BRB. But from actual gaming perspective, i'd rather not play against someone who claims that it's totally fair and square to exploit an old rule to 1-shoot some bio-titan. Nope, i don't have bio-titans but if a person is willing to take it this far, the chances of having an enjoyable game are ~ 0. Besides, we all know that it's easilly possible to make a game completely unplayable if you're too fixed on RAW. Stuff like you can't shoot with models that don't have eyes painted on them...

Exactly how are attacks without a strength or instant death going to 1-shot a bio-titan?

Indeed. It's no different to any weapon with fleshbane still wounding on a 2+, allowing black-mace wielding daemon princes to do a right number on a bio-titan worth twice their points.

Note that hunters from hyperspace lets you wound on a 2+. It doesn't get you past a gargauntuan creature's (ususally) impressive armour save, nor Feel No Pain.

A full deathmark squad tagging a bio-titan and rapid-firing into it will do about three wounds, then it'll get stepped on. Repeatedly.

Frankly, I'm fine with this (even as a tyranid player), as a necron army has bugger all chance of stopping a rampaging bio-titan without a lot of effort.

....Actually, Wraiths can probably do it. Rending is another rule which still works on gargantuan creatures. you need to be careful, though, because stomp does nasty things to units who expect to be able to use their expensive invulnerable saves...

DaPino wrote:
The gargantuan creature rule does not make 'any set modifier' into a 6+. It only does so for sniper and poison hits.

Yes Deathmarks are equipped with sniper weapons but they do not use this special rule to wound on a 2+, this comes from another special rule which is not covered in the gargantuan creature special rule.

It doesn't matter if they use the USR or not they are still making attacks that have the sniper USR. But because as many people stated that codex>brb HFH will get their mark off.

Id say the same as i would for grav, nothing says it is directly modified to 6 if it isnt sniper or poison. And even if you want to argue they are shooting sniper rifles you put a cryptec or harbinger in there and bam! Hes wounding from hfh on a two and not using sniper or poison. That is only if you can still do that, i know its not in the faq anymore so im not sure if hfh still goes to guys that joined the squad